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VoraciousVermin

Can someone prove me wrong?

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So I've been reading these forums for a while now, and I'm almost at the end of a DWD. By this point I am entirely convinced with the R + L = J theory, I mean I first suspected it in the first book and it has just got more and more likely. However, if there is one thing I've realised from GRRM it's that nothing is definite, and what you expect never happens.

On this basis, I wondered if anyone had any counter arguments to Jon's assumed lineage? Either theories on who else his mother could be, or reasons why R + L wouldn't work? I'm still fairly convinced on it, but I felt it could be imteresting to have some different points of view to ponder over :)

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I agree with R+L=J, but disagree that what we expect never happens in this series.

As for other theories, they are myriad. A+N. W+N. Rob + L. Aegon = Jon. N +L which is frankly creepy. But I have to say at this point anything other than R+J or maybeeeee N+A seems like a huge ass-pull to me

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I believe in the theory, the only "odd" thing I found is when Lord Edric Dayne said to arya that he and Jon were milkbrothers under the wetnurse Wylla. if jon is lyanna's son it would be strange that he had been nursed at starfall ( I know that Ned had to bring dawn back to Starfall, but he was still the one who killed ser Arthur Dayne, why would you nurse the "bastard" of the man who killed your family's finest member ? )




But even this could be plausible because Ned and Ashara could have had a thing back at the tourney of harrenhal


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In the General forum...there are several topics related to RLJ...there is a continuing thread that is pinned to the top that discusses RLJ.



There have been many other theories but there always seems to be a timeline or other issue that discredits that theory.

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I buy the theory too, but I have to admit it is based on the flimsiest of evidence. "Promise me, Ned, promise me" is all we really have to go on, and the rest is speculation and theorizing. And on the downside, there are two instances where characters contradict RLJ directly, first Ned then Edric. Plus there doesn't seem to be any of the Targaryen traits in Jon at all: no dragon dreams IIRC, no fire resistance (and please, let's not start that debate in here), no madness...



But I do laugh when someone is tearing someone else's theory a new one because it is all-speculation and no-evidence, and all the while the major theory that is accepted by probably 90 percent of readers has only one cryptic sentence from a dying, probably delirious, woman to support it.

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I believe in the theory, the only "odd" thing I found is when Lord Edric Dayne said to arya that he and Jon were milkbrothers under the wetnurse Wylla. if jon is lyanna's son it would be strange that he had been nursed at starfall ( I know that Ned had to bring dawn back to Starfall, but he was still the one who killed ser Arthur Dayne, why would you nurse the "bastard" of the man who killed your family's finest member ? )

But even this could be plausible because Ned and Ashara could have had a thing back at the tourney of harrenhal

But that is just it. We do not know how long it took Ned to get to Starfall, he was wounded at the TOJ. The bit you are talking about (Slemy's musings about Harrenhall and Ashara's actions), throw a new light on things.....Selmy knows what went on at Harrenhall. But he cannot really know what happened at Starfall, he wasn't there. I love it the way Martin ties us up in knots.

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I feel like it is the definitely the most likely and put it at about 97+%, and also disagree that GRRM does lots of unexpected stuff. More like is just willing to kill characters not many writers would be willing to (valar morghulis and all that).

But I personally attribute my head cannon to N+A, exclusively because I like that ned isn't perfect and had an affair. I reread the first book directly looking for R+L and didn't find as much evidence as I imagined I would see. I realize I will most likely be proven wrong, but until it is written out, I don't care and will believe ned hooked up with that hottie from Starfall with the crazy eyes.

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I agree with R+L=J, but disagree that what we expect never happens in this series.

As for other theories, they are myriad. A+N. W+N. Rob + L. Aegon = Jon. N +L which is frankly creepy. But I have to say at this point anything other than R+J or maybeeeee N+A seems like a huge ass-pull to me

why...isn't the point to make a book interesting, to lead readers one way just to turn tables. once explanation comes out...if it does... then everyone will know. as long as it fits logically in the story any explanation of jon's parentage is acceptable...

I buy the theory too, but I have to admit it is based on the flimsiest of evidence. "Promise me, Ned, promise me" is all we really have to go on, and the rest is speculation and theorizing. And on the downside, there are two instances where characters contradict RLJ directly, first Ned then Edric. Plus there doesn't seem to be any of the Targaryen traits in Jon at all: no dragon dreams IIRC, no fire resistance (and please, let's not start that debate in here), no madness...

But I do laugh when someone is tearing someone else's theory a new one because it is all-speculation and no-evidence, and all the while the major theory that is accepted by probably 90 percent of readers has only one cryptic sentence from a dying, probably delirious, woman to support it.

exactly my point...

but hey gang, if sitting around speculating brings people joy while waiting to find out, great. but don't be disappointed if it all blows up in the end...

...but hey that's just this old asshole's opinion...feel free to disagree :smoking:

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I do agree that we can't know but there is also the constant ned's thinking jon not as his son but as his blood which I think I checked I can't remember right now but at least three times ned says my blood. That of course could make him also brandon's bastard for all we know but still it poses a problem. Btw we see others such as oberyn not calling their bastards their blood so this isn't a thing in westeros

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I miss these forums. :)



Now I know a lot of people will debunk this, but I personal believe that S + Y, and R + I = O, and that is probably what Martin intended all along. Guess I'll have to wait 'til TWOW to prove all you suckers wrong...


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I miss these forums. :)

Now I know a lot of people will debunk this, but I personal believe that S + Y, and R + I = O, and that is probably what Martin intended all along. Guess I'll have to wait 'til TWOW to prove all you suckers wrong...

Wait, I'm sorry, I didn't get who you implied

.

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Well R+L=J doesn't exclude N+A from having a romance, nor for A having a kid. Personally I think R+L=J AND N+A=Allyria (Ser Beric's yearlong bethrothed who's supposed to be Edric Dayne's aunt, supposedly Arthur's and Ashara's sister, but probably is Ashara's not so stillborn daughter).



As for proving a negative without actual confirmation by the author: not debatable. You can't disprove I have an invisible pink unicorn living in my garage either.


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I believe in the theory, the only "odd" thing I found is when Lord Edric Dayne said to arya that he and Jon were milkbrothers under the wetnurse Wylla. if jon is lyanna's son it would be strange that he had been nursed at starfall ( I know that Ned had to bring dawn back to Starfall, but he was still the one who killed ser Arthur Dayne, why would you nurse the "bastard" of the man who killed your family's finest member ? )

But even this could be plausible because Ned and Ashara could have had a thing back at the tourney of harrenhal

I am at the very end of ADWD (last 2 chapters) and 90% convinced of RLJ, but the fact that Jon was (possibly) nursed there (after Arthur's Dayne death) always felt really strange for me. Even the fact that Ned and Ashara may have had a thing didn't convince me either.... to bring the baby THERE, as if nothing had happened....Then, I thought that one plausible theory could be that: what if Jon was Arthur Dayne's child (with L?) but I can't give you any proof of that (it was only a thought). Anyway, I remember having read something about A+L=J in this forum...

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I mean, if it didn't cinch it for you when Jon sent Mance's son away from the wall for his own protection, I don't know what will. It's parallelism at it's paradigm.



Which makes me wonder about what's in the letter to Randyll Tarly and how it might parallel some evidence of Jon's parentage.


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