Tywin relationship with Tyrion

[White Ravens]

I think Tywin would want absolute proof before harming Tyrion. And Tyrion is Joanna's, the last piece of her. Tywin did love his wife and if he doesn't have solid proof that Tyrion isn't his he might hold back.

I'm not sure how much Tywin knows, doesn't know, or suspects. But I don't think he'd smother a baby that people thought was his. Lots of questions that are hard to avoid.

The fact that Tyrion survived into adulthood suggests that he is the legitimate son of Tywin Lannister. If Tywin doubted Tyrion's legitimacy he could have found any number of situations to fabricate an "accident" resulting Tyrion's death.

[BearQueen87]

The fact that Tyrion survived into adulthood suggests that he is the legitimate son of Tywin Lannister. If Tywin doubted Tyrion's legitimacy he could have found any number of situations to fabricate an "accident" resulting Tyrion's death.

I would counter this with, it suggests that Tywin thinks Tyrion is his natural born son. As I said above, I honestly don't know how much Tywin knows, suspects, or doesnt' know. If he thinks that Tyrion is his son by Joanna, then he won't cause an accident. Doesn't mean that Tyrion is actually his son though.

[Fallen Prince]

Why would Tywin raise Aerys bastard knowingly? He would of smothered Tyrion if he had the slightest doubt that he might be Aerys instead of his.

The fact that Tyrion survived into adulthood suggests that he is the legitimate son of Tywin Lannister. If Tywin doubted Tyrion's legitimacy he could have found any number of situations to fabricate an "accident" resulting Tyrion's death.

I agree with BearQueen on this one, suspicion about the baby's parentage doesn't neccessarily mean smothering it. Especially when the mother is someone he seemed to truly care about.

I understand that Tywin was dissapointed with Tyrion but I still find it odd that he trusted Tyrin to act as Hand in his stead, arranged for him to one day become Lord of Winterfell, yet still wouldn't allow him under any circumstances to have Casterly Rock. That suggests, to me, that Tywin sees Tyrion as being competent enough to rule the North, and effectively the whole realm but for some reason finds it innapropriate or ridiculous that Tyrion should inherit CR, even though by law it should be his. That supports the idea that Tyrion isn't his real son IMO.

[Boarsbane]

I agree with BearQueen on this one, suspicion about the baby's parentage doesn't neccessarily mean smothering it. Especially when the mother is someone he seemed to truly care about.

I understand that Tywin was dissapointed with Tyrion but I still find it odd that he trusted Tyrin to act as Hand in his stead, arranged for him to one day become Lord of Winterfell, yet still wouldn't allow him under any circumstances to have Casterly Rock. That suggests, to me, that Tywin sees Tyrion as being competent enough to rule the North, and effectively the whole realm but for some reason finds it innapropriate or ridiculous that Tyrion should inherit CR, even though by law it should be his. That supports the idea that Tyrion isn't his real son IMO.

Casterly Rock is probably the most precious thing to Tywin left in the world and deep down he really despises Tyrion, of course he isn't going let him have it. Casterly Rock is worth more than Winterfell and being Hand temporarily, as far Tywin is concerned. Tyrion is clearly Tywin's son, whether Tywin likes it or not. The author basically confirmed it.

[Maia]

Some interesting stuff about Tywin in ConCarolinas Q&A, which can be found here:

http://www.staceysimms.com/george-r-r-martin-qa/

I.e., this:

"A: That scene is filtered through Tyrion’s point of view ten years after the fact. We don’t know anything about what Tysha is thinking, although it’s meant to be a brutal scene for everyone, Tywin included. No one enjoyed that incident. We could only find out what Tysha was thinking or feeling if we see her again"

Which really makes me wonder - if Tywin didn't get some twisted enjoyment out of it as per GRRM, why on earth did he do it? I mean, I can understand that he wanted to nip any behavior resembling Tytos's in the bud and whatever complications Duncan the Small's marriage to a commoner caused could have been a factor in his violent reaction too.

But wouldn't proving the marriage to be invalid (Tyrion was not of age, married without the consent of his father, there were no witnesses, etc.) and forcing Tysha to join the Silent Sisters have done it even more effectively as well as discreetly? And likely without the side-effect of Tyrion openly turning to whoring or re-thinking his prior intention to become a septon...

[The Sleeper]

Some interesting stuff about Tywin in ConCarolinas Q&A, which can be found here:

http://www.staceysimms.com/george-r-r-martin-qa/

I.e., this:

"A: That scene is filtered through Tyrion’s point of view ten years after the fact. We don’t know anything about what Tysha is thinking, although it’s meant to be a brutal scene for everyone, Tywin included. No one enjoyed that incident. We could only find out what Tysha was thinking or feeling if we see her again"

Which really makes me wonder - if Tywin didn't get some twisted enjoyment out of it as per GRRM, why on earth did he do it? I mean, I can understand that he wanted to nip any behavior resembling Tytos's in the bud and whatever complications Duncan the Small's marriage to a commoner caused could have been a factor in his violent reaction too.

But wouldn't proving the marriage to be invalid (Tyrion was not of age, married without the consent of his father, there were no witnesses, etc.) and forcing Tysha to join the Silent Sisters have done it even more effectively as well as discreetly? And likely without the side-effect of Tyrion openly turning to whoring or re-thinking his prior intention to become a septon...

That is an interesting quote and I have to say it doesn't quite fit with the idea of Tywin I have in my head. The new material gives a new perspective on him, which would require some rumination on it after we get the book in hand.

For one thing, I have thought of Tywin as someone who was content to put down those that went against him. There is the quote from AFFC where it mentions him smiling when the Tarbrecks met their doom. Maybe the idea sounded good to him, but the reality of having a fourteen year-old girl gang rapped proved too much for him?

I suppose it depends on how much the lesson was intended for Tyrion and how much for Tysha.

Another incident which might shed some light would be his reaction when Joffrey had his outbreak. Maybe a sense of frustration and disappointment at Tyrion?

[Lummel]

Some interesting stuff about Tywin in ConCarolinas Q&A, which can be found here:

http://www.staceysimms.com/george-r-r-martin-qa/

I.e., this:

"A: That scene is filtered through Tyrion’s point of view ten years after the fact. We don’t know anything about what Tysha is thinking, although it’s meant to be a brutal scene for everyone, Tywin included. No one enjoyed that incident. We could only find out what Tysha was thinking or feeling if we see her again"

Which really makes me wonder - if Tywin didn't get some twisted enjoyment out of it as per GRRM, why on earth did he do it? I mean, I can understand that he wanted to nip any behavior resembling Tytos's in the bud ...

I think the idea is that from Tywin's POV he is a judge punishing a criminal in what he considers to be a fair, just and reasonable way. However he is not a sadist who enjoys watching the person who is being punished suffer. Just as he might sentence a man to be hanged so he has sentenced Tysha for what he considers to have been her crimes.

And wasn't this cruel act separate from annulling the marriage?

And as always 'A lannister pays their debts'.

[SeanF]

I don't think Tywin hated Tyrion, although he blamed him for Joanna's death, and found both his dwarfism and his behaviour embarrassing.

But, in his eyes, he's a good father, who gives his son "sharp lessons" for his own good. He provides him with money, servants, an education, and has enough respect for his abilities to make him acting Hand and Master of Coin.

[Fallen Prince]

Casterly Rock is probably the most precious thing to Tywin left in the world and deep down he really despises Tyrion, of course he isn't going let him have it. Casterly Rock is worth more than Winterfell and being Hand temporarily, as far Tywin is concerned. Tyrion is clearly Tywin's son, whether Tywin likes it or not. The author basically confirmed it.

If you're talking about the quote I think you are then I disagree. I think it's a huge leap to take it as absolute proof.