The Sleeper Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 well yes, and they know about Bran but dont tell him...I know hope theyll burn in hell if they betray him :( Let me get this straight. Stannis is basing his claim to being Robert's heir. Whom Robert Ned was instrumental on puttting on the throne to begin with. And Ned, by the way died trying to preserve Stannis' claim. And the Northmen owe Stannis? No, I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramount of the Riverland Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Nope, Stannis will kill Bolton, then get himself killed, and LF uses Sansa and gets it under his thumb, sooooo QUEEN IN THE NORTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Where and when? Only Arnolf Karstark ever did something even remotely like that. I dont have the quote, but I think some kingly terms are used in his arregment with Mors Umber. The one were he asks not to fight his brother, and Mances skull to be deliverd to him. Since he is serving him outside WF, we can asume the agreement was reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I dont have the quote, but I think some kingly terms are used in his arregment with Mors Umber. The one were he asks not to fight his brother, and Mances skull. Since he is serving him outside WF, we can asume the agreement was reached. Vassals don't impose terms on their lieges. By definition they are not considering him their king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Vassals don't impose terms on their lieges. By definition they are not considering him their king. There are plenty of examples in story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 There are plenty of examples in story. Like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Like? Freys and Tyrells (Joffrey was King). Stannis was considering forming a marriage alliance between Shireen and SR to bring them into the war on his side. I'm sure there are more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Like?River Lands lords over Hoster. They accepted Robb as king, with, or without his consent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Joker Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I'd lose all respect for the Starks/North if they just turn on Stannis. Yeah, they owe him nothing, but it's still a bitch move and considering everything we hear about "northern honor"....it doesn't fit well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Freys and Tyrells (Joffrey was King). Stannis was considering forming a marriage alliance between Shireen and SR to bring them into the war on his side. I'm sure there are more. Did hose arrangements include conditions which battles their troops would fight? Because Mors made it abundanlty clear that he would not fight Hother for any reason. Neither the arrangements you mentioned placed limits for their allegiance. They got rewards, but after that they were supposed to be vassals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatarion Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I guess we can debate this all night, but If im a Bolton or in KL I see Mormont, Glover, the Clans as traitors by declaring for Stannis. They want the Starks back in WF. Declaring for Stannis to put the Starks back in WF as their overlord isn't out of the question. And is something I'm sure they're willing to do. Plus NONE of the Northern lords can be 110% certain the Starks are still alive. If they turn on Stannis or not we will see. Obviously it wouldn't make sense with everything we have learned about the North throughout the series imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 River Lands lords over Hoster. They accepted Robb as king, with, or without his consent. What? Edmure was acting as his representantative and he accepted Robb just fine. Never mind that he is Hoster's grandson. and I don't recall anybody from the Riverlands saying that they would follow what orders of Robb's they chose to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 What? Edmure was acting as his representantative and he accepted Robb just fine. Never mind that he is Hoster's grandson. and I don't recall anybody from the Riverlands saying that they would follow what orders of Robb's they chose to.And so? Everyone accepts Robb as king giving a damn about what Hoster thinks. Who by the way is still in well use of his mind at this point.Robb being his relative means extra nothing in westeros were everybody is related one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I guess we can debate this all night, but If im a Bolton or in KL I see Mormont, Glover, the Clans as traitors by declaring for Stannis. They want the Starks back in WF. Declaring for Stannis to put the Starks back in WF as their overlord isn't out of the question. And is something I'm sure they're willing to do. Plus NONE of the Northern lords can be 110% certain the Starks are still alive. If they turn on Stannis or not we will see. Obviously it wouldn't make sense with everything we have learned about the North throughout the series imo. They would follow Stannis. If a Stark told them to. At this point their primary concern is getting rid of the Boltons. I don't see the Northmen turning on Stannis either. If he wants to go south to fight for the IT they will wish him good luck and godspeed. They certainly won't go with him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 And so? Everyone accepts Robb as king giving a damn about what Hoster thinks.Who by the way is still in well use of his mind at this point.Robb being his relative means extra nothing in westeros were everybody is related one way or the other.Seriously, what are you talking about? What does Hoster have to do with anything? Mors Crowfood Umber told Stannis that he would fight wiht him on the condition that his forces would not fight against Hother Umber's forces under no circumstances. This is not how vassalage works. Vassals don't get to chose when and who to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 They would follow Stannis. If a Stark told them to. At this point their primary concern is getting rid of the Boltons. I don't see the Northmen turning on Stannis either. If he wants to go south to fight for the IT they will wish him good luck and godspeed. They certainly won't go with him though.Yep that Iron Throne means shit to them the only reason they would march with Stannis South is for vengeance and to get their men out of captivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Did hose arrangements include conditions which battles their troops would fight? Because Mors made it abundanlty clear that he would not fight Hother for any reason. Neither the arrangements you mentioned placed limits for their allegiance. They got rewards, but after that they were supposed to be vassals. Of course he wouldn't fight his family. Everyone looks down on a Kinslayer. You're nitpicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Seriously, what are you talking about? What does Hoster have to do with anything? Mors Crowfood Umber told Stannis that he would fight wiht him on the condition that his forces would not fight against Hother Umber's forces under no circumstances. This is not how vassalage works. Vassals don't get to chose when and who to fight. Ok now I get it, sorry, it was some bad reading comprehension. Anyway, we can work out lots of examples of what you talk about. Just in the top of my mind... - Velaryon threatening Stannis to whitdraw his troops if he didnt attack right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Of course he wouldn't fight his family. Everyone looks down on a Kinslayer. Your nitpicking. Not remotely. Stannis would look on Hother as a traitor. The closest relevent example is Loras and Margery asking Cersei to give leave to disengage the Redwyne fleet to go home and defend the Reach. Mors Umber is setting up a condition where he doesn't need to ask period. And have you seen Mors Umber pledge allegiance to Stannis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Ok now I get it, sorry, it was some bad reading comprehension. Anyway, we can work out lots of examples of what you talk about. Just in the top of my mind... - Velaryon threatening Stannis to whitdraw his troops if he didnt attack right away. Treason. Robb threatened to have Greatjon hanged and had Greyt Wind bite off two of his fingers when he proposed to withdraw his forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.