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Snowisnobastard

(Show spoilers) how could they kill...

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They would never of died if Karl focking tanner from gin alley was there.that giant would of been fucked, he would of been drinking wine from the giants skull by dawn

:lol:

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Exactly. Next season there should finally be room in the show for Stannis to be great. I'm looking forward to it.

The Nights Watch will have 50 able bodied men left, at best, by the end of next episode. This will make them even more dependent on Stannis than in the book. The show is unlikely to show Stannis' military campaign against the Ironborne or to spend much time on Stannis rallying the North, so he will probably spend most of next season with Jon. Between Jon, Edd, Sam, Aemon, little kid, Slynt, Thorne, Gilly, Tormond, Mance, Stannis, Davos, Melisandre, Selyse, and Shireen, there will be ample named characters at the wall. Grenn and Pyp wouldn't have been more than glorified extras anyway - much better to kill them in this episode so that the battle had weight. I also like that Jon sent Grenn to his death; I think that was hanging over Jon when he decided to go on his suicide mission.

Further, I expect the show to play around with Sam's plot line to keep characters more connected and to keep the whole thing film-able. I thought Aemon might die in the battle for the Wall (especially when the wildlings were breaking into rooms!) and then the show could keep Sam and Gilly at the wall or could send them to Kings Landing or whatever. But I'm pretty sure the main point of Aemon's discussion with Sam was to emphasize that he has king's blood so they probably will go on a trip together. If they go to the maester school, I expect it to be in Bravos.

There's always been room for Stannis to be great, and they've always opted to make him a dark and weak-minded antagonist. All of the Unsullied with whom I share this show absolutely despise him. Instead of thinking he's "too black/white," or any of the other legitimate criticisms which can be made of him, they think he's a petulant plaything of Mel's.

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It would have been another ridiculous creation on their part if they had tried to portray Stannis as great in previous seasons. He is the furthest thing from great in the first few books. Finishing off the Wildlings, his interactions with Jon, his slowly winning over some of the northerners, I would expect and hope they will use those as opportunities to show Stannis' potential to be more than he seems early on in the story.


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Pyp's death was a sudden brutal shock that came just after his little "yay" moment of finally hitting a foe.



Grenn's death was a slow, "aww man he didn't make it" deal that tasted bittersweet when you realise that he held the Gate no matter what.



Both got me right in the feels.


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I just don't see Grenn going out in a better way in the future. Giving him Noye's part (which almost made me cry like a baby in the books) was perfect and added to his character. The part where they were reciting their vows was extremely sad because you could tell exactly what was going to happen.



For some reason I felt more for Sam than I did Pyp, having to watch his friend die in his arms. Which is strange, because I actually really do like Pyp. I just happen to like Sam more, I suppose.


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I was upset that Pyp died and more so Grenn. He went out in a badass way. I knew when Jon stopped him and repeated "Hold the gate" he was a goner.


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Tormund would make a great allie to John to have at the wall really later on and a few other wildlings because most Nights watch are like those who Raped the Craster daughters and Id not trust them with my back.


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I am extremely saddened by the loss of both Pyp and Grenn. As most of you all said, Grenn went out a BAMF. Pyps' death was when I gave up hope for both men, you cant have one without the other. It is such a shame as Pyp was just starting to be built up a little more instead of being a familar face in a sea of extras. Grenn was just pure beast in his scenes and I have to say, i was a little disappointed his body wasn't wrapped in the giants hand, only slightly though. It did not affect the way i felt about it all. To those wondering about extra faces, i just want to point out we got an amazing 5 seconds of Three finger hobb casually strolling out and being a tough son of a bitch with his meat cleaver, hopefully it wasnt just a one time appearance. They're going to need some other faces for the eventually marsh situation.


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I think there's a dozen or so left. And Ghost (Ghost does qualify as a Night's Watchwolf, doesn't he?).


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I think there's a dozen or so left. And Ghost (Ghost does qualify as a Night's Watchwolf, doesn't he?).

At the end they kept saying "they have 1000x more men than we do" so I guess 88k wildlings died

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Ok - so they send Grenn down into the tunnel to take Donal Noye's place - I can live with that - but I was a little disappointed we didn't get to see the actual fight when the Giant hit the gate ... I know they did it off screen for a bigger impact at the end when Jon and Sam go down there and find them all dead but still - Grenn deserved his 15 seconds of hero glory if he had to die.

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I'm thinking it was a money thing, but honestly, Jon not having any friends now is pretty stupid. There's still Edd; I guess he can play a bigger role next season.


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I'm thinking it was a money thing, but honestly, Jon not having any friends now is pretty stupid. There's still Edd; I guess he can play a bigger role next season.

...but he doesn't have any friends in the books, either. He sends all of them away. In ADWD, Sam, Pip and Grenn have all gone. This doesn't really make any difference story wise. Edd is in the books still, and he's still in the show, so I'm assuming he has a bigger role to play down the line.

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...but he doesn't have any friends in the books, either. He sends all of them away. In ADWD, Sam, Pip and Grenn have all gone. This doesn't really make any difference story wise. Edd is in the books still, and he's still in the show, so I'm assuming he has a bigger role to play down the line.

show wise it could. I agree about Edd, like I said...

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Here's the thing - D&D may not know any more than we do if Grenn or Pyp played important roles in the future of the story. I'm starting to suspect they might be making some of these character cuts without George's approval. I've seen enough interviews with him now where he's said they do not have to get everything approved through him - they make their own plot choices. It's concerning. I'm losing my trust in D&D.


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show wise it could. I agree about Edd, like I said...

Well, if they are never coming back or doing anything important from here on out, I like the show runners' decision to kill them off and make this battle more dramatic with heavier consequences. Jon will be wrestling with the a lot of other things next season, and I think that this might give him more of an opportunity to befriend Tormund.

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Here's the thing - D&D may not know any more than we do if Grenn or Pyp played important roles in the future of the story. I'm starting to suspect they might be making some of these character cuts without George's approval. I've seen enough interviews with him now where he's said they do not have to get everything approved through him - they make their own plot choices. It's concerning. I'm losing my trust in D&D.

They have sat down with him and asked him where all of the characters were going in the story. That's confirmed by interviews they have done. They know where it's going, now it's just up to them who to cut or combine and where to simplify the character list down from ridiculously huge to more manageable for a television audience.

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I'm so glad Edd made it.

And I don't think any character has gone out in more heroic fashion than Grenn. Really happy he got a fantastic final season rather than fading into obscurity.

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