Kalbear Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 What I don't get about seswatha is why he would have encouraged a cult that willingly became ignorant of magic, given how powerful magic was and how important it was. I can think of vague fan wanking theories but none of them ring true when presented with the actual person seswatha; it's akin to a really talented gymnast telling his kids that any kind of athletics should be shunned at all costs. It's just not what people do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 What I don't get about seswatha is why he would have encouraged a cult that willingly became ignorant of magic, given how powerful magic was and how important it was. I can think of vague fan wanking theories but none of them ring true when presented with the actual person seswatha; it's akin to a really talented gymnast telling his kids that any kind of athletics should be shunned at all costs. It's just not what people do.Ahhhhhh, hence why I have my fascination with the word ecstatic. (The mystical definition of the word.) Maybe the elders keep everyone ignorant of magic for their own agendas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Your prize. Your proof! But anyway, I haven't commented on it, because if it's a misprint, well, big deal. If it's not, then... also no big deal. Pretty minor issue all around. Yeah, I brought this up a few pages ago but I also think that its importance has been blown a bit out of proportion. More interesting though is, how did they know where to find Ishual? Or are we to think they just blindly happened upon it? It seems really unlikely to find it on blind chance, since for 2000 years after that no one else does, but I guess it is possible. Seswatha is a reasonable guess. But is there really proof that he was the only person to know about Ishual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 One possible explanation for seswatha to deny the dunyain knowledge of sorcery is that sorcery attracts notice. He needed them to be under the radar of the.consult, and any sorcerous faction would be a magnet for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 nice. like in asimov, a secret, separate foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 nice. like in asimov, a secret, separate foundation. Except The Mule comes from said Foundation this time. One possible explanation for seswatha to deny the dunyain knowledge of sorcery is that sorcery attracts notice. He needed them to be under the radar of the.consult, and any sorcerous faction would be a magnet for them. Is this actually true? Because I can't think of any obvious sorcery that didn't require you to be in the middle of it. Also: it's still a bit odd how he didn't try to enforce some sort of equivalent to the Mandate's Heart (he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to let that go) but I suppose that it could have simply faded away if it was some sort of mundane tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Is this actually true? .I was just peddling some crackpottery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Also: it's still a bit odd how he didn't try to enforce some sort of equivalent to the Mandate's Heart (he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to let that go) but I suppose that it could have simply faded away if it was some sort of mundane tradition. The second foundationers were entrusted with the Seldon plan, which is TTT in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Yes, Serwe you did bring this to our attention. Since then I have been trying to figure out his reasoning in using it. Its probably no big deal at all. Just seemed odd to me and it was a great catch by you. Some of you say it's no big deal, but maybe it is. Maybe it's a hint to the Dunyain origins. And that's where I'm going with it.ETA: and truly I don't care if some of you think I'm waaaaaay to hung up on it. I could give multitude's of examples where people get hung up on seriously mundane things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 So we learn about the separate hidden foundation in the Asimov series right at the beginning and y'all have spoiled absolutely nothing for me, right? Right? Uh... *looks at solo* *walks away* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 So we learn about the separate hidden foundation in the Asimov series right at the beginning and y'all have spoiled absolutely nothing for me, right? Right? No, IIRC, there was the question of whether the Second Foundation actually exists or not. But it seems that Bakker has flipped the foundations here kind of. In Asimov, the 1stF was the technological one (the equivalent of the Dunyain,) while the 2ndF had all that mental voodoo, which to me is more similar to sorcery than what Kellhus does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 But it seems that Bakker has flipped the foundations here kind of. In Asimov, the 1stF was the technological one (the equivalent of the Dunyain,) while the 2ndF had all that mental voodoo, which to me is more similar to sorcery than what Kellhus does.Different worlds. Earwa is a world filled with meaning. In such a world, sorcery can be thought of as the equivalent of technology in a meaningless world. A mundane science like the Tekne is what is truly alien to Earwa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Someone should start a new thread with "Ecstatic Wanking" in the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Doing another read-through. Still in the first half of DTCB and I am struck by how well the story is without everything revolving around Kellhus. It'd be interesting to see what would have been had the whole character and plotline of Kellhus just not come about. We'd be left with the ordinary machinations of otherwise fairly clever game players like Conphas without being eventually completely overshadowed and made pointless by the THOUSANDFOLD THOUGHT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 It'd also be interesting to have nothing from Kellhus pov the entire time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Doing another read-through. Still in the first half of DTCB and I am struck by how well the story is without everything revolving around Kellhus. It'd be interesting to see what would have been had the whole character and plotline of Kellhus just not come about. We'd be left with the ordinary machinations of otherwise fairly clever game players like Conphas without being eventually completely overshadowed and made pointless by the THOUSANDFOLD THOUGHT.The men of the Tusk suffer significantly larger casualties at Mengedda and Anwurat, then die of thirst in the Carathay.Edit: btw, will The Unholy Consult conclude TSA, or is there another duology/trilogy.coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 why isn't there a perspective for the thinking thing that thinks the thousandfold thought, huh? where is res cogitans millies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 The men of the Tusk suffer significantly larger casualties at Mengedda and Anwurat, then die of thirst in the Carathay. I wonder how this fits in with the theory (probably lockesnow's) that Moënghus wanted Kellhus to come to Shimeh to lead the war against the Inrithi. Without Kellhus the Holy War is doomed. So why would Moënghus ask for Kellhus to help him out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I wonder how this fits in with the theory (probably lockesnow's) that Moënghus wanted Kellhus to come to Shimeh to lead the war against the Inrithi. Without Kellhus the Holy War is doomed. So why would Moënghus ask for Kellhus to help him out?Because he needs more than himself and Maithanet to unite the three seas? The fanim can defeat the invading inrithi but can't unite the entire region through occupation. Moengus needs something to move beyond inrithism and fanimry to create a coalition capable of fightng the consult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Edit: btw, will The Unholy Consult conclude TSA, or is there another duology/trilogy.coming?TUC will not conclude TSA. A third series is needed, which Bakker plans to write and publish, whether he will be able to do that is another question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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