Diziet Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Because he needs more than himself and Maithanet to unite the three seas? The fanim can defeat the invading inrithi but can't unite the entire region through occupation. Moengus needs something to move beyond inrithism and fanimry to create a coalition capable of fightng the consult. Another thing I don't get is why Kellhus destroyed the Cishaurim outright. He could've have found a way to subdue them and use their powers in the Great Ordeal. Or at the very least he could've captured one alive for questioning in regards to Moenghus and whatever metaphysics the Cishaurim know that Kellhus does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 he did interrogate the moe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 he did interrogate the moe? Moe is Dunyain. There is not much Kellhus could get from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 But perhaps Kellhus didn't need to know much. He already deluded himself into thinking that he understood the metaphysics of the Cishaurim completely, and he already grasped TTT. He needed to know what the No-God is and once he realized that Moe has no idea he killed him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 AK just needs to transform into a worm and have done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Another thing I don't get is why Kellhus destroyed the Cishaurim outright. He could've have found a way to subdue them and use their powers in the Great Ordeal. Or at the very least he could've captured one alive for questioning in regards to Moenghus and whatever metaphysics the Cishaurim know that Kellhus does not. How much value was there to the Cishaurim compared to the cost of trying to keep them alive in the middle of an invasion? (And what makes you think that he never tortured any of them?) When it comes to all the things Kellhus should have done-from female warriors to collecting the Scylvendi- this is always the question. Because he needs more than himself and Maithanet to unite the three seas? The fanim can defeat the invading inrithi but can't unite the entire region through occupation. Moengus needs something to move beyond inrithism and fanimry to create a coalition capable of fightng the consult. That was basically my take but I think lockesnow made some good points against it. I'll see if it was in this thread later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 How much value was there to the Cishaurim compared to the cost of trying to keep them alive in the middle of an invasion? A lot? They're are as powerful as the Scarlet Spires as far as he knows. Which, sure makes it harder to subdue them, but if he had only kept one alive (which was entirely possible for him) he could've interrogated him about Moe, or more importantly, he could have rebuilt the Cishaurim and brought them to fight the Consult with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 A lot? They're are as powerful as the Scarlet Spires as far as he knows. Which, sure makes it harder to subdue them, but if he had only kept one alive (which was entirely possible for him) he could've interrogated him about Moe, or more importantly, he could have rebuilt the Cishaurim and brought them to fight the Consult with him.Well, there is one still alive. Meppa, and if I remember correctly Bakker said he would play a huge role in TUC.Now I'll go back to my ecstatic wanking....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Well, there is one still alive. Meppa, and if I remember correctly Bakker said he would play a huge role in TUC. Don't tell me Kellhus kept him alive on purpose and he will play some role that Kellhus conditioned for him or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I Don't have a reference. I think it was on his old site or in a interview. They asked a question about who his favorite character was to write about in TUC. He said Meppa, and that he would have bigger role to play. I will look for it, If u demand the quote. But, I can't remember where I read it at. Just struck me as odd, because I didn't think there was much to Meppa. That's why I remember it.ETA: I am scouring the web trying to find it. I hope I'm not confusing a different character, but I'm almost sure it was Meppa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 http://rsbakker.wordpress.com/2013/10/01/the-four-goads-at-the-crossroads/Sorry, it was Malowebi. I got excited for no good reason. But, I think Meppa could have a impact in TUC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 A lot? They're are as powerful as the Scarlet Spires as far as he knows. Which, sure makes it harder to subdue them, but if he had only kept one alive (which was entirely possible for him) he could've interrogated him about Moe, or more importantly, he could have rebuilt the Cishaurim and brought them to fight the Consult with him. your assertion that it woul be entirely possible for Kel to keep the Cish alive I unfounded by any textual evidence. They were the enemy defending Shimeh. What indicates in the text that Kel could have kept them alive and still won the Holy War? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Only one, not all of them. So Kellhus kills all of them except one, and anyone with a Chorae captures the last one. I know it's not as easy as it sounds, but with everything Kellhus has been doing throughout the series, this doesn't look that difficult. This is a person who can pull someone else's heart out of his own chest and he couldn't subdue a Cishaurim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Don't tell me Kellhus kept him alive on purpose and he will play some role that Kellhus conditioned for him or whatever. Well even though I was wrong about bakkers fav TUC character, there still is one chisuarum alive, Meppa. Somehow that guy made it through. But not by Kellhus's hand. I kinda agree with Triskan, he's either a unidentified missing character (Moe, Cnauir) or something else that will prove to be important to the plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 your assertion that it woul be entirely possible for Kel to keep the Cish alive I unfounded by any textual evidence. They were the enemy defending Shimeh. What indicates in the text that Kel could have kept them alive and still won the Holy War? If Fanayal has a pet Cish Kellhus could have one too. Crackpot: Sarl puts out his eyes in the wastes of the Ancient North in a fit of madness; only find that his maniacal passion for the Slog has allowed him to bear the Water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Sarl of the Slog w/ the water= The No-God walking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Only one, not all of them. So Kellhus kills all of them except one, and anyone with a Chorae captures the last one. I know it's not as easy as it sounds, but with everything Kellhus has been doing throughout the series, this doesn't look that difficult. This is a person who can pull someone else's heart out of his own chest and he couldn't subdue a Cishaurim? I misunderstood. Yes ok that sounds possible. I guess it's also possible that Meppa is the conditioned result. Maybe. Seems hokey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Buck Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Two quick and random questions: First, is it generally accepted that Cenei is supposed to be the analogue of Rome, and thus the Nansurium is the analogue for the Byzantine Empire? Second, do any of the great old northern civilizations pre-Apocalypse have real-world analogies? They seem to be vaguely indicative of stuff like ancient Mesopotamia so far as their historical function, but are there any more direct connections to real-world civilizations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 From the prologue of TDTCB,"So long as men live, there are crimes!The mans eyes filled with wonder. No, child, he said. Only so long as men are deceived."Anyone else notice the use of "men" here instead of "Men"? Usually Bakker uses "Men" to mean humans, and "men" to mean adult males.Here is Aurang to Kellhus:"To save my soul, hmmm? So long as there are Men, there are crimes. So long as there are crimes, I am damned."Also, is it possible that the Bardic Priest was connected to the Consult in some way? He was the first to give us their worldview and solution to damnation (which the boy repeats after him in the above quote,) "There are no crimes when no one is left alive." Which is a rephrasing of what Aurang told Kellhus in TTT. Always seemed weird that everyone died of the "plague" aside from him and the one child he molested. Another possibility is that he's an agent of Seswatha who paved the way for the Dunyain's arrival at Ishual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I remember noticing that similarity and wondering about it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.