Dothraki: The most Villainous Culture?

[Nihlus]

On the other hand, if it's Robb Stark or Jaime Lannister (The only commander seen punishing a subordinate for rape in wartime, I believe), things should be much more controlled. On the other hand, If it's the Dothraki, rape and slavery it is.

Robb was apparently pretty brutal in his attack on the Westerlands.

We also see Stannis geld three of his men for raping Wildling women at the Wall. I also recall Randyll Tarly doing something similar, but I could be wrong.

The Dothraki are definitely the "worst' culture in the series. They're all complete monsters, and worse, they're parasites who don't actually seem to do anything except kill and steal from the defenseless. On top of all of that, they're a bunch of complete and utter morons. The Ghiscari would come in second place for "worst cultures".

[cgrnosfe]

They are a best of album including the worst traits of mongols+russians+turks. The stallion who mounts the world would definitely be genghis khan...

[Pigeon Pie]

Robb was apparently pretty brutal in his attack on the Westerlands.

We also see Stannis geld three of his men for raping Wildling women at the Wall. I also recall Randyll Tarly doing something similar, but I could be wrong.

The Dothraki are definitely the "worst' culture in the series. They're all complete monsters, and worse, they're parasites who don't actually seem to do anything except kill and steal from the defenseless. On top of all of that, they're a bunch of complete and utter morons. The Ghiscari would come in second place for "worst cultures".

Would also like to add Theon who punished his men for raping Palla (was that her name?).

[Theda Baratheon]

In terms of neighbours; I have to admit Dothraki are the worst of the lot and the ones I'd least like to be living near to. Oh, and the Wildlings - can't say I'd love to live near them either even though I'm actually rather fond of a lot of Wildling characters in the series. :P

[Impoverished Noble]

The Valyrian Freehold was by far the most evil civilization that we know of in ASoIaF.

[Acnologia Targaryen]

I just puzzled why the dothraki still exist i figured they hid when Valyria was in power because yea you don't mess with the freehold, but how they are such a power in essos puzzles me. They show no real military tactics how they seige the free cities without seige weapons puzzles the hell outta me. Then i have to wonder about their culture in relations to farmers and builders i don't know how progress is made? I know slavery is profitable and all but so much though?

I agree with you though they are parasitic just like the ironborn.

[zaphodbrx]

I just puzzled why the dothraki still exist i figured they hid when Valyria was in power because yea you don't mess with the freehold, but how they are such a power in essos puzzles me. They show no real military tactics how they seige the free cities without seige weapons puzzles the hell outta me. Then i have to wonder about their culture in relations to farmers and builders i don't know how progress is made? I know slavery is profitable and all but so much though?

I agree with you though they are parasitic just like the ironborn.

Most of Essos is illogical. I wouldn't try to make too much sense out of it...

Edit: The weirdness of Dothraki attitudes towards arms and armaments are even more puzzling than their seige tactics.

[The Imperator]

The Dothraki can be pretty civilized when they're not warring and raiding. They're definitely a brutal group of peopleno doubt, but they aren't mindless murder/rape machines either.

Only to other people lol.

[Julia Martell]

The Valyrian Freehold was by far the most evil civilization that we know of in ASoIaF.

Interesting. Why do you think so?

I can't think of a single good think to say about the Dothrakhi.... they like doggy style? No one can be again that..... but they're probably not that into consensual doggy style, so forget it. Nothing good to say about them.

[Hardtack]

They are a best of album including the worst traits of mongols+russians+turks. The stallion who mounts the world would definitely be genghis khan...

The cartoon version thereof, anyway. They have few of the actual traits that led to Mongol or Turkish success.

[Lopsang]

I just puzzled why the Dothraki still exist i figured they hid when Valyria was in power because yea you don't mess with the freehold, but how they are such a power in essos puzzles me. They show no real military tactics how they seige the free cities without seige weapons puzzles the hell outta me. Then i have to wonder about their culture in relations to farmers and builders i don't know how progress is made? I know slavery is profitable and all but so much though?

Dothraki show parallels to the Mongols and to some extent the Huns. Remember, Genghis Khan created the largest empire in history, mostly during his lifetime/rule, out of nothing. Mongols put cities under siege all the time. They would use psychological warfare a lot of the time; they would often burn, pillage, and terrorize the hinterlands of the besieged place, then they would force as large a group of survivors possible to the city gates. The besieged city would be allowed to take them in, and then have to deal with terrorized, morale-dropping new inhabitants and their water/food supplies would be overloaded.

Mongols also had army engineers who would travel lightly and then build siege equipment at the site of the attack. They were very skilled in building quickly. Furthermore, they would come out of the shadows. Just like Hannibal crossing the alps, the Mongols did crazy, unthinkable things, like crossing deserts and areas where nobody ever crossed. Like I said, Mongols traveled lightly, and would often eat from their horses and collect morning dew for drinking water. This seriously reduce or completely abolished supply lines and may have helped to prevent disease via poor water/food supplies.

Progress is made without agriculture and buildings through the plunder of other people who build and farm. Vaes Dothrak is a big collection of plundered items and some rudimentary structures, and also home to a bustling marketplace. The Mongols, as well as the Dothraki, guarded trade vehemently. The trade roads were the safest they had ever been under Mongol rule and presumably the Dothraki as well.

[Mal Malenkirk]

Dothraki show parallels to the Mongols and to some extent the Huns.

I think it's the other way around, They are much more closely related to the Hun and have only shades of the mongols.

The Huns under Attila behaved much like Drogo's Dothraki, roaming the crumbling roman empire to extract tributes and sack easy preys, never building much in the way of infrastructure and economy.

The Mongols, as well as the Dothraki, guarded trade vehemently.

The mongols did. They built an empire, maintained a postal system and other infrastructures.

The Dothraki do no such things. Where do you get the notion that the Dothraki guard trade? The extent of their 'commerical' practice consist in capturing and selling slaves. We've seen nothing else and have no reason not to assume they'd promptly raid any trade caravan they'd run accross in the Dothraki see. Guard trade indeed. They are probably part of the reason all commerce in Essos is done by sea and there's no city worth mentioning that's not coastal.

[Impoverished Noble]

Interesting. Why do you think so?

I can't think of a single good think to say about the Dothrakhi.... they like doggy style? No one can be again that..... but they're probably not that into consensual doggy style, so forget it. Nothing good to say about them.

Disgusting! Consensual doggy style WTF!!!

The Valyrian Freehold was responsible for many evils including slavery, dragons and blood magic. That's way worse than the normal plundering and pillaging of the doodoorakhi.

[Acnologia Targaryen]

Dothraki show parallels to the Mongols and to some extent the Huns. Remember, Genghis Khan created the largest empire in history, mostly during his lifetime/rule, out of nothing. Mongols put cities under siege all the time. They would use psychological warfare a lot of the time; they would often burn, pillage, and terrorize the hinterlands of the besieged place, then they would force as large a group of survivors possible to the city gates. The besieged city would be allowed to take them in, and then have to deal with terrorized, morale-dropping new inhabitants and their water/food supplies would be overloaded.

Mongols also had army engineers who would travel lightly and then build siege equipment at the site of the attack. They were very skilled in building quickly. Furthermore, they would come out of the shadows. Just like Hannibal crossing the alps, the Mongols did crazy, unthinkable things, like crossing deserts and areas where nobody ever crossed. Like I said, Mongols traveled lightly, and would often eat from their horses and collect morning dew for drinking water. This seriously reduce or completely abolished supply lines and may have helped to prevent disease via poor water/food supplies.

Progress is made without agriculture and buildings through the plunder of other people who build and farm. Vaes Dothrak is a big collection of plundered items and some rudimentary structures, and also home to a bustling marketplace. The Mongols, as well as the Dothraki, guarded trade vehemently. The trade roads were the safest they had ever been under Mongol rule and presumably the Dothraki as well.

Yea but the mongols used armour, had tactics and built seige engines (yea i know chineses engineer built it for them, but they at least progressed), heck they even had religious tolerance and great administration. The Dothraki do none of that all they seem to do is charge with cavalry and with archers. They also use old ways to settle wars like make the khals fight, but thats it. I mean i can get the hun and mongol parallel but all how they lasted for 400 years and managed to be a world power with just that puzzles me.

[Mal Malenkirk]

I believe the others are a worse neighbour.

I'd rather Khal Drogo living next door, doing his wife on the front lawn from time to time and accepting a free gift basket as a token of my gratitude for not pillaging my house than ice demons.

Of course if its just human cultures then i apologise for misunderstanding.

That gift basket is better be pretty damn expensive or else he'll be doing your wife on the front lawn, whether she likes it or not. Then Kill you. Then sell you kid as slaves.

[The Imperator]

I think it's the other way around, They are much more closely related to the Hun and have only shades of the mongols.

The Huns under Attila behaved much like Drogo's Dothraki, roaming the crumbling roman empire to extract tributes and sack easy preys, never building much in the way of infrastructure and economy.

The mongols did. They built an empire, maintained a postal system and other infrastructures.

The Dothraki do no such things. Where do you get the notion that the Dothraki guard trade? The extent of their 'commerical' practice consist in capturing and selling slaves. We've seen nothing else and have no reason not to assume they'd promptly raid any trade caravan they'd run accross in the Dothraki see. Guard trade indeed. They are probably part of the reason all commerce in Essos is done by sea and there's no city worth mentioning that's not coastal.

I guess people take the Mongol inspiration too seriously.

[Taenqyrhae]

Still no difference from forced marriages, apart from the polygamy aspect. Is that really what bothers you ?

The greenlanders are the delusional ones, deluding themselves that their particular brand of enslavement of women and brutality is somehow better. Too bad you've bought into that delusion.

Forced marriage is illegal in most of Westeros. The bride has the right to refuse marriage no matter what. Does it happen anyway, do the families of girls put unethical and sometimes illegal pressure on women to essentially force them to agree to the marriage, even though technically they have the right not to? Yes, and that also happens in the modern world among nobility and other families with equivalent amounts of power and influence. It's not a fault of the laws of the land, but an unavoidable aspect of living in a world where people's families have lots of power over them and those families want them to marry certain people. But forced marriage is not considered moral in Westeros, except among Wildlings and Ironborn.

The books also make it clear that even salt wives and thralls are not slaves. Thralls cannot be sold, and their children are born free. One of the other Ironborn, perhaps Victarion (I don't have the book in front of me) made a comment about being disgusted with Euron for having actual slaves and engaging in the slave trade. Salt wives have a status between thralls and actual wives. Definitely terrible practices that are essentially slavery by modern standards, but there is a distinction between it and what the Dothraki practice. I won't fault them for the rape and other atrocities of war...read up on Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi's story and realize that stuff like that probably happens a hundred times unpunished for every time you hear about it. War is always an evil, disgusting process that stains all who take part in it. But we do not go to war to capture civilians to be sold like livestock, neither do the Westerosi, but the Dothraki sure do.

[Lord Reaver]

Forced marriage is illegal in most of Westeros. The bride has the right to refuse marriage no matter what.

Sure, Sansa could just have said no. She just wanted to marry Tyrion so badly...

But sure, provide a source for said "law".

I mean, holy crap, I didn't even go into the whole "prima nocte" that some of the greenlanders practice.

[ummester]

Has it ever been considered that Martin deliberately juxtaposed the Dothraki (with their very open and base instinct barbarism) against the deceptive and manipulative lands of Westeros for a reason?

How humans perceive and respond to power strikes me as an important part of the ASoIaF saga. The question of whether direct physical power, on which the Dothraki culture (and probably The Mountain) is mostly based is more powerful than family, love, intelligence, beauty, aspiration, belief and so on, is very central to the story.

As for how they Dothraki culture rose, I thought it did so because Valyrian culture fell. By this I thought Martin was showing that in the ASoIaF universe, as is possible in our own world, culture can both shift from more barbaric to more civilized and from civilized to barbaric. It is possible that the future of Westeros has wildling hordes like the Dothraki culture and the future of Essos build back towards civilization from a Dothraki base. Winter is Coming may just mean that everything that grows eventually withers, everything that rises will one day fall and so on.

[willofDorne]

Sure, Sansa could just have said no. She just wanted to marry Tyrion so badly...

But sure, provide a source for said "law".

I mean, holy crap, I didn't even go into the whole "prima nocte" that some of the greenlanders practice.

Lord Reaver, you're confusing things people get away with with the actual laws. Roose Bolton gets away with prima noctre, but it's not practiced in Westeros and I doubt it's legal.

Sansa marries Tyrion, but she's basically the daughter of a traitor and the Lannister's captive. Yeah, the Lannisters are forcing marriage here, but such is the life of Sansa and the greed and power of Lannisters. I think if she could have refused the Lannisters, and the Lannisters could have done some evil to make her regret it, but none of that would be legal. It's just things they are getting away with, like forcing the Blue Bard to confess.