Janicia Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 She can do anything the show wanted her to do. There is no "Ros" or "Talsia" but the show created one, so if they wanted to give Michelle Fairley a bigger role as Stoneheart they are perfectly capable of inventing one and have shown they are not at all shy about inventing whatever they think is cool. So, either GRRM gives Stoneheart no role beyond whatever happens next with Brienne and Jamie and so she will almost certainly be cut and replaced with Thoros or Beric, or she does do something else going forward and they've moved her way foward in the story. But the idea that they "can't" do anything with her because there isn't enough in the books is not true, since we've seen them invent wholesale characters and season long events that never happened. Yara and Craster's Keep this season were problematic because it seemed like something would happen and then nothing happened besides a few minor characters dying. I hadn't thought about it, but yeah, Lady Stoneheart has to do something besides kill extras to be taken seriously. In the book, we got to meet Merret before he died, but meeting somebody just so Lady Stoneheart can kill them is an iffy use of show resources. The only Frey that matters in the show is Walder. Maybe Stoneheart gets to kill him in season 5. But if there are plot reasons she can't do that, she doesn't amount to much before running back into Brienne. If the show wants to skip Lady Stoneheart, what do you suppose happens with Brienne and Jaime? The BWB kills one of them under different circumstances? They never reconnect and one of them dies in an entirely different story? Book Lady Stoneheart ends up pardoning them, so skipping her entirely turns out to have no impact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.mop Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 The show doesn't invent anything without purpose. Talisa replaced Jeyne Westerling obviously, it's not like Robb had a random wife out of nowhere. Her story was different because Robb wasn't meeting her off camera like it happened in the book. Ros served a purpose as well--she told us about Theon, she showed us the inside of the secret trade in Kings Landing with Baelish & Varys, and the pitfalls of crossing one of those guys. They werent random, "sure, why not, let's just throw shit in there and see what happens?" sorts of things. Craster's Keep was taken care of by Coldhands in the books, so they needed that plotline (Jon going back North) if they were going to cut Coldhands. Again, there is obvious logic and purpose behind those choices. You have it backwards with LSH though. Rather than ID'ing a good reason to have her doing stuff now, and then using that reason to justify introducing her now, you're saying they should introduce her now, and invent a reason to justify it. The writers will introduce her when she has something important to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowisnobastard Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 Just because you don't understand something, it doesn't mean it's pointless ... It's not whether I understand it. I understand it fine, they wanna make fun of GRRM a bit. It was a ten minute ego massaging for d&d, oh and the fact that it was a complete waste of time. Amazing how you think you can grasp someone's understanding of something by reading one post of theirs on a forum. You must have superior powers of perception to the rest of us. Maybe one day well all be as witty as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.mop Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 The beetle thing wasn't making fun of GRRM, it was a scene about a man coming to terms with almost certainly his imminent death and trying to find a reason in it all. It was a nice moment. Probably a little too long, but w/e. My unsullied GF loved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor!!! Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 It's not whether I understand it. I understand it fine, they wanna make fun of GRRM a bit. No, that's not the point. If you think the beetle scene is about Martin, then you clearly did not understand the much more important metaphysical imagery that represents the fictional world of Westeros. As well as our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowisnobastard Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 Someone clearly filled your head with garbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Tyrion at that moment WAS A BEETLE. How is that not understood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igrewupinKL Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Regardless of who you think Orson or the Beetles represent I think there was a reason why GRRM put LSH in the epilogue of ASOS. Because she died in that book and we still had emotional attachment to her and Robb. The show's mistake is waiting too long to show her and thus it will seem like some kind of cop out to the unsullied just to have Michelle Fairley on the show again. Plus by the time season 5 is out it would have been 2 solid years since the Red Wedding, like people are over that now..it just seems an odd decision to introduce her when most people have forgotten all about her and her appearance will be random and confusing. There won't be as much emotional impact in that scene, it's too delayed. They're probably going to introduce her when Brienne meets her. The audience won't know the extent of how far gone she is...so what suspense could there be when Brienne meets her? They should definitely establish LSH as a indiscriminate revenge killer before hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Regardless of who you think Orson or the Beetles represent I think there was a reason why GRRM put LSH in the epilogue of ASOS. Because she died in that book and we still had emotional attachment to her and Robb. The show's mistake is waiting too long to show her and thus it will seem like some kind of cop out to the unsullied just to have Michelle Fairley on the show again. Plus by the time season 5 is out it would have been 2 solid years since the Red Wedding, like people are over that now..it just seems an odd decision to introduce her when most people have forgotten all about her and her appearance will be random and confusing. There won't be as much emotional impact in that scene, it's too delayed. They're probably going to introduce her when Brienne meets her. The audience won't know the extent of how far gone she is...so what suspense could there be when Brienne meets her? They should definitely establish LSH as a indiscriminate revenge killer before hand.I actually agree with all of this and feel that Stoneheart has gotten the axe. I don't think she will ever appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igrewupinKL Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I actually agree with all of this and feel that Stoneheart has gotten the axe. I don't think she will ever appear. I get this feeling as well It makes me sad :frown5: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 If LS is necessary, she will show up. If she's nothing but a shock gimmick, she won't. I will be fine either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 If LS is necessary, she will show up. If she's nothing but a shock gimmick, she won't. I will be fine either way.What do you think will be out 1st, season 5 of Winds of Winter? Or better yet, do you think the writers know where her book arc is headed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiffy Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I actually agree with all of this and feel that Stoneheart has gotten the axe. I don't think she will ever appear.You are wrong. Why in the hell would they give us Oathkeeper sword and keep refering to Brienne's Oath to cat. She will appear she is to crucial to not to appear. Why even give us BWB. Hell even Valar morghulis appeared first time in season 2 finale and was not brought back until this season finale - 2 years ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_Shrike Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Now that my raged has cooled after seeing the actual episode I will assess the situation. I stand by the fact that not using her was a complete waste of a fantastic opportunity to end a strong episode/season. However if we disregard that the ASOS epilogue even exists, then a different sort of reveal presents itself, that timeline wise would occur next season. Instead of being a complete plot turn/ twist they might choose to bring back the focus on the brotherhood in season 5, ala feast for crows, with ominous mentionings of the hangings, talk of a new leader, beric dondarrions death, the run in with brienne being teh reveal. This is a far less effective way to do LS, however it could still be powerful, and more ominous rather than surprising. That said my faith in D&D as adaptors has droppened considerably after the way Tyrion/Shae/Jaime/Tywin was handled this episode in addition to how Stannis/Catelyn had been handled throughout the series. :agree: This. This exactly. I was wondering if they would do lady Stoneheart but not surprised that they didn't.I like the idea of bringing her in gradually, but It might seem contrived to people who didn't read the books. I mean, the woman died pretty gruesomely in Season 3, and all of the sudden she's alive in season 5? It would be hard to grasp. It would be less effective than the cliffhanger. And I totally agree about how Tyrion/Shae/Jaime/Tywin was handled. They left out the confession Jaime made. That confession was the pin in the grenade. Once it was out, Tyrion was primed to explode. And that ending robbed us of Tyrion's signature phrase, "Wherever whores go..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janicia Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Regardless of who you think Orson or the Beetles represent I think there was a reason why GRRM put LSH in the epilogue of ASOS. Because she died in that book and we still had emotional attachment to her and Robb. The show's mistake is waiting too long to show her and thus it will seem like some kind of cop out to the unsullied just to have Michelle Fairley on the show again. Plus by the time season 5 is out it would have been 2 solid years since the Red Wedding, like people are over that now..it just seems an odd decision to introduce her when most people have forgotten all about her and her appearance will be random and confusing. There won't be as much emotional impact in that scene, it's too delayed. They're probably going to introduce her when Brienne meets her. The audience won't know the extent of how far gone she is...so what suspense could there be when Brienne meets her? They should definitely establish LSH as a indiscriminate revenge killer before hand. You make good points. The counter argument is that if you kill Superman in one book and then Superman is resurrected in the next one, you lose a lot of credibility. Introducing Lady Stoneheart in season 3 would have been a bad idea. Whether or not Lady Stoneheart is in the show, the person of Catelyn Stark is gone. The world has moved on. Lady Stoneheart is a tragic monster, not a triumphant hero. Would you be happy with the show introducing Lady Stoneheart through Bran? Bran doesn't know that Catelyn died, right? We could see his sadness watching her die, his hope at her resurrection, and then his horror that she's become an undead indiscriminate revenge killer. Bran could give an emotional hook while showing the creation of Lady Stoneheart, and Lady Stoneheart ties into Bran's mission to save humanity from the undead. But having Lady Stoneheart, UnGregor, Sandor's re-appearance, and UnJon all happen in one season could be problematic. I'm fine if she doesn't show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 What do you think will be out 1st, season 5 of Winds of Winter? Or better yet, do you think the writers know where her book arc is headed? ...is that a serious question? Of course they know where her book arc is headed, GRRM told them where everyone's book arcs were headed before they even made the show. It's not as if they have been making changes to the characters just by guessing what will happen to them- both the show and the book are headed for the same conclusion. That's why I said that if she is necessary to the story, she will be there. If she's not necessary, she won't be. And I would bet money that Season 5 is out before TWoW, although I'm not sure what this has to do with the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 ...is that a serious question? Of course they know where her book arc is headed, GRRM told them where everyone's book arcs were headed before they even made the show. It's not as if they have been making changes to the characters just by guessing what will happen to them- both the show and the book are headed for the same conclusion. That's why I said that if she is necessary to the story, she will be there. If she's not necessary, she won't be. And I would bet money that Season 5 is out before TWoW, although I'm not sure what this has to do with the question.Wow tough crowd, have a Xanax buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 You are wrong. Why in the hell would they give us Oathkeeper sword and keep refering to Brienne's Oath to cat. She will appear she is to crucial to not to appear. Why even give us BWB. Hell even Valar morghulis appeared first time in season 2 finale and was not brought back until this season finale - 2 years ago!Since you have a crystal ball then go on the record and tell us when Stoneheart will appear then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Wow tough crowd, have a Xanax buddy.I'm cool, but it's honestly hard to tell if things like that are jokes around here sometimes./need a sarcasm font Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiffy Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Since you have a crystal ball then go on the record and tell us when Stoneheart will appear then.No it just makes sense from all the forshadowing they already have done to set her up. But obviously you haven't watched all the episodes. It sure does not sound like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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