Book and show spoilers: how could they do the finale w/o

[Serr Parker]

She'll be in, to be fair there wasn't enough time for any Sansa, very little Stannis and Danny and it was a 66 min episode. I'd much rather wait till next season for them to do it properly (Opening scene? That would be great), rather than squeeze it into 2-3 minutes for the sake of it.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I'd be okay with that ending :leer:

But seriously, I said it before but I'll keep saying it till I'm blue in the face: D&D have no idea how insanely popular Jaqen is among the Unsullied. One tiny little glimpse of him after pushing Balon would have made Unsullied pee their pants

Yeah, it's true. But don't even make me start with Balon... Stannis rode North with 2/3...

[Guard of the Rainking]

He's the opposite of Batman.

Namtab?

[Lord Freeholder Targaryen]

Oh well. At least Winds is coming soon. Oh wait.

ಠ_ಠ

[Darkstar112]

it was a very close clash with her filming in 24, even if it had been one scene and they filmed it at the start it could have been very close.

plus she probably needed time to get into the character of margo al harazi (spelling).

i think i tried to post a topic on that a few weeks back but it either went to the mods and didnt make it or i gave up i cant rememeber.

i was hoping she would appear at the end two, i think the key reference to the sword made by the hound will be siginifcant in terms of her/BWB recognising "lannister gold" making her think shes turned on her oath.

[TheNorth's1stKnight]

i agree it definitely would have been cool to see LS as the last scene and i think it was a missed opportunity. maybe what D&D should have done is included a brief scene in an earlier episode of this season to setup stoneheart's appearance in season 5. brienne and pod could have been walking in the riverlands on their way to the vale and they stop and see dead freys hanging from trees making the audience wonder who is behind it.

[Ashas Globetrotter]

Having Brienne actually meet the Hound is better than anything GRRM has done with Brienne at this point in the books.

I concur! And one of the greatest fights in the show ever.

[Ashas Globetrotter]

Having Brienne actually meet the Hound is better than anything GRRM has done with Brienne at this point in the books.

I concur! And one of the greatest fights in the show ever.

[Opisthokont!]

Cliffhangers suck. This one sucked in A storm of swords and it would have sucked in the show. I'm glad they ended with something that actually felt like an ending instead.

If they don't have Stoneheart at all I'll be disappointed, but so far I'm not worried. Opening next year with some dangling Freys, then a mention of it at a council meeting in the middle of the episode, and then having the A storm of swords epilogue as the last scene would be a great first episode. Add a dead Balon and you'll really have things set in motion for series 5.

[wiffy]

she will be in the next season maybe they wanted to hold on to a huge moment for s5. Graves says - Not planned for this season. the keyword this season. So its obvious she will be in the next season and so will BWB as well

but i wanna hear what those sons of bitches D and D has to say. Now they really gotta open up

[VladimirDulud]

Lady Stoneheart cut from the world of the TV show would signify the character arc plays a minimal role in the upcoming books. They knew that to include her as a cliffhanger would make a killer season finale, and they didn't do it because she was never meant to be in the series at all.

Knowing what they know of the arc of the books, I think it's fair to say LS is a peripheral figure in the grand scheme of the novels as well..

[The Sea Snake]

I think it's fair to say LS is a peripheral figure in the grand scheme of the novels as well..

I really hope so. I hate her. Go Jaime

[Here Shaggydog]

Lady Stoneheart cut from the world of the TV show would signify the character arc plays a minimal role in the upcoming books. They knew that to include her as a cliffhanger would make a killer season finale, and they didn't do it because she was never meant to be in the series at all.

Knowing what they know of the arc of the books, I think it's fair to say LS is a peripheral figure in the grand scheme of the novels as well..

So what are they going to come up with Brienne then?

[Seneti]

Guys just cuz she's not in the finale doesn't mean she's not showing up. Trust me, she'll be there next season

That's what people said last season... Forgive me if I won't hold my breath.

Why has nobody mentioned the two MASSIVE changes?

1) Jojen's Death. Does that mean the "jojen paste" theory is true? I mean I suspect he dies in the burrow with tCotF, but no confirmation for that yet.. unless..+

2) VARYS BOARDING TYRION's Ship!!!!!! Does that mean the Spider will be going East with Tyrion next season??? Who will kill Pycell and Kevan Lannister? I really want to see how that plays out.

Maybe spoilers for TWOW? Will Varys eventually go east and join Illyrio?

1) Jojen was marked for death from the moment he appeared. And if Jojenpaste is true, than it's more of a Meerapaste now.

2) Correct me if I wrong, but didn't Cersei's chapters in AFFC tell us that Varys was nowhere to be found in the aftermath of Tywin's death? That always had me believe that he had fled from KL, which is why his return was a real shocker for me. So it doesn't surprise me at all that the show is going down this road.

I assumed this was just to keep Conleth Hill around at the beginning of next season and ease viewers into Tyrion's trip. I think Varys will come back to King's Landing.

Good idea. It will also help reconnect viewers with the Illyrio-Varys Targaryen conspiracy.

I could be categorised as a show apologist: I have pretty much always had D&D's back, fully understanding they are working with budget and time constraints, and that TV is a much different media compared to books and stuff, and that GoT is a brilliant adaptation of ASOIAF. I have to say though that this is the first time I feel truly disappointed about a choice they made, not including LS in the finale.

Sure, she can be part of season 5. Sure, that would make a great cold opener and all, but I cannot help but feeling that they missed a great opportunity. I am not even the biggest fan of the character, but that epilogue scene was SCREAMING perfect cliffhanger. My guess is that there might have been contractual problems of sort that made them decide to fit LS storyline in season five. For some reason I am still convinced that she will be playing a big role in TWOW, and that she will not be cut, but at this point I can only guess.

Agreed. No LS at the end of season 3 or 4 + butchering of House of the Undying are so far the only two developments in the show that really disappointed me. They done fucked it up.

What bothers me as well is their exclusion of Tysha from that last Jaime-Tyrion conversation, although

1) it doesn't bother me nearly as much as LS

2) it doesn't bother me because of how it was in the books, but because they already introduced us to the Tysha storyline. Why bring it up at all if you are not going to use it? Just seems really silly to me.

[Mr Hodor]

I understood Lady stoneheart's exclusion. See the first few chapters of affc and adwd

Arya will be in hotu and will just be scrubbing floors for first few episodes

Jon will be elected LC and has an interesting storyline

Cersei and jaime will be mourning

Tyrion will be drunk

Sansa will be just looking at Lord littlefinger talk to the noble houses

Dany will be doing nothing in the name of ruling mereen

They need shockers like LS to keep people interested. The initial part of AFFC and ADWD are really slow. Esp when you compare them to the mad speed of ASOS.

[Ruin]

I can see the show using LS to mix things up next season with the introduction to Dorne/Martells, Faegon and JoCon, and all that Greyjoy madness. If they do cut her, who would they replace her with? An evil version of Beric...Blackfish will now be known as Stonefish?

[Zombies That Were Promised]

Really can't value the Graves' interview at ALL, sadly don't think now we'll get any other word on the subject from someone else. So here we are, off to a third year of endless LS speculation...

[Dany4eva]

I am still pissed about LSH. I am certain they have completely cut her from the show now. :spank:

[SerArthurHeath]

In the tunnel, in the book, Jamie and Tyrion, have their talk about Tyrion's first wife and Jamie tells his role, then asks if he did kill Joffery, and in anger Tyrion says he did. They part in anger. To have Tyrion exit like that was a big cutting of ties( I know he is not wanting to come back anytime soon) But Jamie and Tyrion had a bond, in the novel all ties were cut with family, literally and figuratively. The show left me feeling Jamie could re- connect with him down the road.

Even in the books they still have confused thoughts about each other

[SerArthurHeath]

I understood Lady stoneheart's exclusion. See the first few chapters of affc and adwd

Arya will be in hotu and will just be scrubbing floors for first few episodes

Jon will be elected LC and has an interesting storyline

Cersei and jaime will be mourning

Tyrion will be drunk

Sansa will be just looking at Lord littlefinger talk to the noble houses

Dany will be doing nothing in the name of ruling mereen

They need shockers like LS to keep people interested. The initial part of AFFC and ADWD are really slow. Esp when you compare them to the mad speed of ASOS.

Well, I don't think they'll be staying that honest to the books to keep them slow tbh. Sounds like Jaime is going to Dorne early given the spoiled audition scene. And unless they pretty much cut everything and write their own entire season (possible and worrying) they will be very tight for time next season anyway. I really think every show watcher I know would have loved to see LSH at the end. It would have made their season and many of them still see the RW as a key focus of anger. I have read the arguments to the contrary but I can really see no benefit at all to moving her to Season 5. Especially as the end of the season and episode was surprisingly weak given the number of possible scenes they could have chosen or executed well.

This was one of the worst episodes I've seen from a biased book POV. I'm sure it would have been better from a show only perspective but I'm struggling to accept the changes made to my favourite characters and to the plot. And some of the changes just bend suspense of disbelief way too much