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Lady Fevre Dream

[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick Without Repercussion #2

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And now that I think about, while I didn't initially disapprove of giving Stannis his mercenary army now...it will take a whole layer of meaning out of the march on Winterfell....because theyr'e mercenaries...nobody is going to want to wash in Bolton blood and strike one for Ned's little girl. It removes all trace or relation to the Stark family out of what is to come.

So, good one, D&D.

That will suck. BUT if Bolton has more Northern families than in the books they will still be free to follow their hearts and turn on him something the hostages once removed are just waiting to do.

Stannis did have an army in the books when he hit the Wall - I see him hiring Saan (sell sails) but also knights - whether it's a Southern army or mercenaries it could be the same strength. He'd still need the North to support him just to get through ( unless in the show they don't) without getting lost, starved, or picked off.

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That will suck. BUT if Bolton has more Northern families than in the books they will still be free to follow their hearts and turn on him something the hostages once removed are just waiting to do.

Stannis did have an army in the books when he hit the Wall - I see him hiring Saan (sell sails) but also knights - whether it's a Southern army or mercenaries it could be the same strength. He'd still need the North to support him just to get through ( unless in the show they don't) without getting lost, starved, or picked off.

Yeah, but you can how they've created some serious plot problems for themselves. Given the giant size of the army he had in Ep. 10....he is not desperate like he was in the books. And I guess we will have to assume that Mel won't be able to see fake Arya in her fire, if there is one, LOL, because obviously, that would be a non starter otherwise.

But, then since there was a complete absence of any Northern lords in Robb's entire story after the Greatjon disappeared.....who knows...there has been zero set up for any kind of anti Bolton feeling, or latent Stark support, but then since the show doesn't do any foreshadowing I guess that is to be expected.

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I don't think they will do fake Arya. Yes, it does suck all of the heart out of Theon's redemption (best chapters in Dance, IMO) and out of the whole "they've got Ned's daughter" feeling that brought the whole north together, but since when do they care about that stuff?

They don't like explaining and feel (sadly, probably accurately) like it will confuse show watchers. They'll do something else, like have Theon rescue some random chick Ramsay was abusing or something.

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The fact that this thread is still going 2 weeks after the finale, is a testament to how bad the show really has gotten.



This is funny because its's honest.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVaD8rouJn0&list=TLPCJRcMPhENLuQ9TumutaMUlkNmrOHpNl



I know, it's old but I hadn't seen it in a while and forgot how accurate it truly is.

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The fact that this thread is still going 2 weeks after the finale, is a testament to how bad the show really has gotten.

This is funny because its's honest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVaD8rouJn0&list=TLPCJRcMPhENLuQ9TumutaMUlkNmrOHpNl

I know, it's old but I hadn't seen it in a while and forgot how accurate it truly is.

Hahaha, can I say I love that this video does call out My Jaqen as Awesome? LOL

It's a shame, my nitpick of the day is.......I don't even feel like doing a rewatch of the episode to organize my Nitpicks again. ~le sigh~

I'd still like to nitpick all the minutes that were left off the screen, episode by episode, inspite of all the filler this season contained. It seems to me that time, even without taking out lots of the filler, could have helped keep some sense and continuity in the end product on our screens.

Thanks, I enjoyed the video, again. I think I'm off to look for the total Jaqen video, I never did get around to rewatching it. It must be telling that I'd rather watch the vid you posted and the vid of Jaqen in previous times as opposed to........Nitpickable The Children.

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Hahaha, can I say I love that this video does call out My Jaqen as Awesome? LOL

It's a shame, my nitpick of the day is.......I don't even feel like doing a rewatch of the episode to organize my Nitpicks again. ~le sigh~

I'd still like to nitpick all the minutes that were left off the screen, episode by episode, inspite of all the filler this season contained. It seems to me that time, even without taking out lots of the filler, could have helped keep some sense and continuity in the end product on our screens.

Thanks, I enjoyed the video, again. I think I'm off to look for the total Jaqen video, I never did get around to rewatching it. It must be telling that I'd rather watch the vid you posted and the vid of Jaqen in previous times as opposed to........Nitpickable The Children.

I was a little surprised no critics ever mentioned how short the show got this season.

And I find that 'budget' is not very believable reason. They've got the actors and the sets and the scripts...so to me when the show comes up basically almost 10 minutes short over and over again, this is some kind of a problem.

It doesn't cost "more" money to add a minute to the scene you have already shot unless that minute includes some kind of stunt or something new...an extra minute of the same people in the same place speaking more dialogue costs exactly zero extra money.

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Short episodes weren't really the problem, they would have just put 5 more minutes of filler anyway.


The real problem was that they spent too much time on filler and thus too little of good stuff.



This season had much more filler than other seasons, I think. around 75% filler overall


Even some episodes were nearly all filler ( ep. 4 and ep. 8 come to mind ).


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Short episodes weren't really the problem, they would have just put 5 more minutes of filler anyway.

The real problem was that they spent too much time on filler and thus too little of good stuff.

This season had much more filler than other seasons, I think. around 75% filler overall

Even some episodes were nearly all filler ( ep. 4 and ep. 8 come to mind ).

They did spend a lot of time on some strange stuff...like OMG how much time on fucking necklaces? QOT throwing necklaces over the hedge, then demanding everyone go out and get more necklaces, then Marg has the most lame necklace ever, and then even after Joff is dead, she can't keep her hands off Marg's necklace...

But, it would have been SO easy to throw in 30 seconds of Varys in the tunnel to give some logic to how Tyrion ends up in his father's chambers because the audience remembering he saw some maps back 4 years ago is ridiculous, and giving another 1.5 minutes to Charles Dance's last scene....or giving the Red Viper and Ellaria scene on their own before his duel for 2 minutes. All of this would have been VERY EASY to do given how much time they left dangling in the ozone....even with all of the filler they already included.

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This was the first time they took longer to do a book, right? They did throw in stuff from other books, but this was mostly ASOS. Seems like it was a tighter story when they didn't take so long to tell it.

At first I thought, great, extra time for the best book. But they they just filled it with made up stuff.

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Hahaha, can I say I love that this video does call out My Jaqen as Awesome? LOL

It's a shame, my nitpick of the day is.......I don't even feel like doing a rewatch of the episode to organize my Nitpicks again. ~le sigh~

I'd still like to nitpick all the minutes that were left off the screen, episode by episode, inspite of all the filler this season contained. It seems to me that time, even without taking out lots of the filler, could have helped keep some sense and continuity in the end product on our screens.

Thanks, I enjoyed the video, again. I think I'm off to look for the total Jaqen video, I never did get around to rewatching it. It must be telling that I'd rather watch the vid you posted and the vid of Jaqen in previous times as opposed to........Nitpickable The Children.

Hahaha. I know, i've watched it more than the actual episode as well.

I tried to start the season over from episode 1 and watch it from a fresh POV. I tried to completely detach it from the books and just enjoy it as a TV show. It did not work. I caught myself skipping scenes to less painful scenes and that was only 3 episodes in. I just gave up. Got disgusted. Then LOLed at that honest trailer.

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Hahaha. I know, i've watched it more than the actual episode as well.

I tried to start the season over from episode 1 and watch it from a fresh POV. I tried to completely detach it from the books and just enjoy it as a TV show. It did not work. I caught myself skipping scenes to less painful scenes and that was only 3 episodes in. I just gave up. Got disgusted. Then LOLed at that honest trailer.

I'm hoping that in a few months time, I'll be ready for my rewatch. I'll enjoy some of it, so much was spectacular like Pedro as Oberyn, Sandor and Arya inspite of some of the mess, Jon emerging finally as an almost consistantly recognized character, etc. It's just a shame that so much of what is good can become overshadowed by all the.....WTF? moments. I suspect that an eventual total rewatch in a couple months won't change much of my mind, I'll enjoy what I enjoy and still wish for continuity and common sense in other places. Not to mention, I'm betting that the children and BR are even funnier, in a bad way, than they were to begin with, LOL

That video was great, and here's hoping.......the show doesn't destroy my Jaqen enjoyment and appreciation next season. That shouldn't worry me, but it does. I do think my enjoyment of many of the actors and the beauty of some of the scenery, along with the chance to see some favorite aspects acted out keep me watching. But, experience is leading me to have less and less faith. If it didn't seem that half the show was fanfiction written by bitter, overworked fanboys, it might be different.

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How do you guys honestly feel about D and D?

They either lied to GRRM in their first meeting. Or they got caught up in the success of the first season and began changing the storylines and characters once they solidified their power in the show's production hierarchy. No one can say no to D&D about the horrible changes. There is no doubt that the direction of the show has heavily changed after the first season. It seems to me that D&D's mostly minor changes in the first season were nothing more than testing the waters. To see how GRRM and the fans would react. Now they know that even major changes will never be challenged by anyone with authority.

It is clear that they do not care about adapting the source material. Now they are about changing the source material to create their own version of ASOIAF that is loosely based on the books. It is exactly what GRRM said he'd never cave into nor compromise. He said he'd never let Hollywood make the books into films because they'd want to cut too much of his material and gut the books into something too narrow. This show is not an adaptation but more of a reboot. Just like how Hollywood reboots their comic book franchises.

In their first meeting GRRM and D&D talked about who Jon's mother was. Yet almost all of the major clues about that question never made it into the show. They suckered GRRM into thinking that they cared about the show by pretending to have deep knowledge base about his lore. GRRM was probably happy to finally be able to talk about who Jon's mother was with someone who could actually get his books into a live action adaptation and was overwhelmed. The big book knowledge discussion that they had about Jon's mother has never materialized on the show. I wonder if GRRM ever thinks about when he asked them who they thought Jon's mother was and how they just threw that storyline away.

The Tower of Joy was left out. Dany's vision of a blue rose in the House of the Undying. Edric Dayne and Jon Snow being connected. The Knight of the Laughing Tree Story. Do non-book readers even know that Jon's parentage is an enormous storyline in the books? Did Robb ever send his last requests to the North on the show naming Jon as an heir to Winterfell? Howland Reed? Promise me Ned?

I think it is fitting that D&D gained GRRM's trust by discussing Jon's parentage only to almost entirely abandon the storyline. Hopefully GRRM is sitting on a ridiculous pile of cash from HBO. Because I doubt that he's particularly impressed with how the show has turned out. This season being particularly appalling to the point where GRRM is doing damage control on his blog.

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Edric Dayne and Jon Snow being connected

I've always wanted to see Edric on the show :/. I'm still hoping that he appears in Season 5 chilling back in Starfall.

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Leaving out many of the good lines is a good indicator of what they think of the source material.

I've seen tons of adaptations, and the good lines are too good to pass up - why would anyone want to. And most were quite faithful, they'd cut things for time, like Scarlet O'Hara had kids with each husband, but the kids never really played into the story, so they cut that. Here, they are replacing story for story, it's not about time, and they keep coming back to the overall book story, so it's not about story, either.

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This is exactly my issue with them and believe me, I've been a show enthusiast from S1, pimping it to all my mates and family. They just ignore the details that make this story so unique; the character insecurities, the connections between past and present, and between characters...they've effectively removed the nuance and the context that is essential for me to care about the story and its people. This has been most egregious for the Starks, imo. Perhaps because they're my favourite?



Now I'm genuinely thinking about avoiding next season, primarily because I don't want answers to burning questions done in the flat reveal style of the show. It'd be hollow for me. It's sad, really, because the first season was good.



I'm not saying adaptations aren't allowed or that I don't understand what the word means.. more that D&D's style (fucking, wtf kill/smash/death, fucking) and their choice of material to focus on (Lannisters + Arya) isn't my cup of cha, increasingly so.



ETA: agreed about the best lines always being retained. Stuff like 'only Cat' while not a big deal, nevertheless baffled me because they'd mentioned the woman so often in LF's scenes, it was ludicrous imo to assume people 'wouldn't get it.'


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Flat reveal style is right. Also WTF reveal style. Everything has to be a "surprise" - no buildup. Even when they build up, the surprise is they don't show it, or it seems an afterthought to some "thematic" point they are trying to make that has nothing to do with what really matters. There's no sense of resolution, even when there is resolution, because none of it feels real.

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They either lied to GRRM in their first meeting. Or they got caught up in the success of the first season and began changing the storylines and characters once they solidified their power in the show's production hierarchy. No one can say no to D&D about the horrible changes. There is no doubt that the direction of the show has heavily changed after the first season. It seems to me that D&D's mostly minor changes in the first season were nothing more than testing the waters. To see how GRRM and the fans would react. Now they know that even major changes will never be challenged by anyone with authority.

It is clear that they do not care about adapting the source material. Now they are about changing the source material to create their own version of ASOIAF that is loosely based on the books. It is exactly what GRRM said he'd never cave into nor compromise. He said he'd never let Hollywood make the books into films because they'd want to cut too much of his material and gut the books into something too narrow. This show is not an adaptation but more of a reboot. Just like how Hollywood reboots their comic book franchises.

In their first meeting GRRM and D&D talked about who Jon's mother was. Yet almost all of the major clues about that question never made it into the show. They suckered GRRM into thinking that they cared about the show by pretending to have deep knowledge base about his lore. GRRM was probably happy to finally be able to talk about who Jon's mother was with someone who could actually get his books into a live action adaptation and was overwhelmed. The big book knowledge discussion that they had about Jon's mother has never materialized on the show. I wonder if GRRM ever thinks about when he asked them who they thought Jon's mother was and how they just threw that storyline away.

The Tower of Joy was left out. Dany's vision of a blue rose in the House of the Undying. Edric Dayne and Jon Snow being connected. The Knight of the Laughing Tree Story. Do non-book readers even know that Jon's parentage is an enormous storyline in the books? Did Robb ever send his last requests to the North on the show naming Jon as an heir to Winterfell? Howland Reed? Promise me Ned?

I think it is fitting that D&D gained GRRM's trust by discussing Jon's parentage only to almost entirely abandon the storyline. Hopefully GRRM is sitting on a ridiculous pile of cash from HBO. Because I doubt that he's particularly impressed with how the show has turned out. This season being particularly appalling to the point where GRRM is doing damage control on his blog.

Wow, spot on! :agree:

...and I wonder what their course of action will be since obviously the fans reactions are pretty negative coming to the end of this season.Clearly, the people who have read the books are definitely not very satisfied and feel quite disappointed.But I guess we're not the majority in the whole community who watches the show and they won't care if we like it or not as long as the ratings are high.It sells, why would they even care about us anymore?

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