The Targaryen Madness Factor/Targaryen Double Standard

[Lord Varys]

Paper Weaver,

I'm not really sure if we can consider book Joff 'mad' in the sense that he was a sadistic psychopath. In fact, I seem to remember that GRRM sort of defended Joffrey in recent interviews in the sense that he said that a 12/13-year-old should never have the amount of power Joffrey had. Yes, there is the whole cat incident, but this does not have to be a sign for a strong innate psychological disorder, it could just have been an expression of Joff's curiosity. After all, it's pretty clear that the boy is not all that bright.

Joffrey's sexual preferences are also never explored, so we really don't know if he the thought of hurting people did arouse him sexually. The whole Sansa thing is connected to the fact that his future bride saw him in a moment of weakness, and then she later turned into a literal hostage and prisoner of war, who was completely at his mercy. You don't have to be particular sadistic/psychopathic to mistreat such a person in a society like Westeros - these things happen in real life, too, in war zones.

Unless Joff turns out to be descended from the Targaryens, it is also very unlikely that his type of madness is supposed to resemble the Targaryen in a deeper way. Tyrion makes such connections, but Tyrion apparently never interacted all that much with Aerys (although he might have met him, I guess, at that tourney where Tywin asked Aerys to marry Cersei to Rhaegar), and thus those could be merely superficial connections - Aerys was irrational/stupid/cruel, Joffrey is, too.

As to Aerion:

We know that Aerys' mental state apparently declined, as did Baelor's. The fact that Aerion was still sane and in control of himself in THK does not necessarily mean that he remained in this state until the end of his life. But I'm with you that it is very unlikely that he shared all the 'laughable' aspects of both Rhaegel's (naked prancing) and Aerys' madness (not washing or shaving/nail cutting).

The fact that Aemon states that all his brothers were killed by dragon dreams could suggest that Aerion eventually really got obsessed with this 'I am a dragon in human form' thing, leading to conscious attempt to use wildfire to transform himself into a dragon.

I mentioned Daemon because his biography clearly suggests that he was of a very changeable nature: Ambitious, yet unwilling to work/take responsibility. Starting to a war, but abandoning when it is essentially no longer fun. Throwing away everything he always tried to gain, apparently, for some lowborn girl, etc.

He could have been one of the cases who could have gotten a lot worse if he did not have a dragon.

And Rhaenyra was not 'broken' in the end, by the way. In fact, she seems to get more determined the worser things got. Luke's death was a strong blow, but Jace's and Viserys' (apparent) demise made her much more determined, and the woman who arrives on Dragonstone to meet Aegon II is fully in control of herself, and even witty in the end.

The mad Targaryens of Daeron's and Maekar's line - Rhaegel, Aerion, Aerys II - can all be seen as distorted versions of the final 'prophesied savior' person who is supposed to bring the Targaryen dragons back. Dany clearly is that one, even if she is not Azor Ahai, or the promised princ(ess), and if the potential to become this person comes with Targaryen blood and genes, then all the other freak Targaryens may have had the potential to become that person, too. Dany's bonding with her dragon egg(s) after her first dragon dream involving her cleansing through dragon fire is particularly interesting in comparison to this Aenys thing, where the young boy eventually gains some strength after he bonds with his hatchling. Dany does not yet bond with a dragon, but after her she gets her eggs and has her cleansing dream, she suddenly becomes much stronger and more determined for no rational reason whatsoever. Objectively, her situation does not change. But her psyche and her body are now able to deal with the situation.

And, yes, Dany can make rash decisions, but so do many other characters in the series who are not appearing to be mad in any way. I'd be very surprised if her journey had any real resemblance with Rhaenyra's arc. Rhaenyra was a spoiled princess, the chosen heir to the throne, and she is betrayed by her own half-brother and stepmother. She is also a mother of multiple children most of which predecease her, and resembles Catelyn a great deal in that regard, whereas Dany most likely will come to a Westeros which will be completely war-torn, and perhaps unable to offer all that much resistance - winter, Others, the previous war, etc. Current events also suggest that Dany will by then have a very huge army consisting of multiple peoples.

The chances that Dany will suffer all that much treasons from the peoples and lords of Westeros are pretty low in my opinion.

[Mithras]

Lord Varys,

The cat was not Joff's only incident. He clearly started to enjoy tormenting Sansa in every way he can. He wanted to serve Robb's head to her seriously, something which even Cersei was shocked to hear. "Joffrey's justice" became a joke. During the riot, he could have wiped the Flea Bottom out if he had the chance. He squezed Sansa's breast and threatened to rape her in the future. Perhaps the show made it clear for the audience that torturing women aroused him just like they did for Renly-Loras thing, which was also not so obvious in the books.

About Aerion; yes his condition might have been deterioated heavily. But we know that he made a legal marriage and sired a son not so long before he drank wildfire. During THK, it was widely known that he was a total douche but during his later years, if he became worse than he was, then which idiot could have given his daughter to a man like him?

I do not know how much the bias in the sources of Gyldayn is responsible for it but I think Rhaenyra seemed quite broken to me, similar to Aegon II (not literal breaking, lol). From the Realm's Delight to Maegor with Teats, there is a long way.

I think even Dany's dragonriders might betray her in the future. A large and strong man similar to Hugh Hammer will probably be the rider of Rhaegal. A drunken sot similar to Ulf the White will probably be the rider of Viserion. They both have their own agendas and they do not want Dany specifically; only her dragons and sons that she will give to them.

How would Dany react to that if Dany has Two Betrayers like that who kidnaps her "children" and ride them against her?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I think even Dany's dragonriders might betray her in the future. A large and strong man similar to Hugh Hammer will probably be the rider of Rhaegal. A drunken sot similar to Ulf the White will probably be the rider of Viserion. They both have their own agendas and they do not want Dany specifically; only her dragons and sons that she will give to them.

I think BBP will take the place of the betrayers in this Dance. His Plumm cousins in Westeros remind me of Ulf and Hugh, it's just a feeling I get,

[Mithras]

I think BBP will take the place of the betrayers in this Dance. His Plumm cousins in Westeros remind me of Ulf and Hugh, it's just a feeling I get,

I don't think BBP will betray Dany again because that would be repetitive. I think he will not survive long enough to see Dany again. Tyrion will pay his debts to him just like he paid his debts to the Nurse. I think Tyrion will trick him into mounting Viserion by which he will get killed and Tyrion will delete one of the claimants to the gold of the CR.

[ARYa_Nym]

Curiosity actually could be an example of ASPD behavior:

In some children, C.U. traits manifest in obvious ways. Paul Frick, a psychologist at the University of New Orleans who has studied risk factors for psychopathy in children for two decades, described one boy who used a knife to cut off the tail of the family cat bit by bit, over a period of weeks. The boy was proud of the serial amputations, which his parents initially failed to notice. “When we talked about it, he was very straightforward,” Frick recalls. “He said: ‘I want to be a scientist, and I was experimenting. I wanted to see how the cat would react.’ ”

In another famous case, a 9-year-old boy named Jeffrey Bailey pushed a toddler into the deep end of a motel swimming pool in Florida. As the boy struggled and sank to the bottom, Bailey pulled up a chair to watch. Questioned by the police afterward, Bailey explained that he was curious to see someone drown. When he was taken into custody, he seemed untroubled by the prospect of jail but was pleased to be the center of attention.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/magazine/can-you-call-a-9-year-old-a-psychopath.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

To Rollingstone GRRM did say that Cersei was almost sociopathic in her world view.

I don't know if somebody like Jaime or Cersei can be redeemed. Cersei's a great character – she's like Lady Macbeth.
Well, redeemed in whose eyes? She'll never be redeemed in the eyes of some. She's a character who's very protective of her children. You can argue, well, does she genuinely love her children, or does she just love them because they're her children? There's certainly a great level of narcissism in Cersei. She has an almost sociopathic view of the world and civilization.

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/george-r-r-martin-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140423?page=3

There is a genetic component to the disorder. A child would have gotten the gene from one or both of his parents. However, he said almost. This is a thing that is either you have it or you don't. Cersei possibly fits NPD better anyways.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I don't think BBP will betray Dany again because that would be repetitive. I think he will not survive long enough to see Dany again. Tyrion will pay his debts to him just like he paid his debts to the Nurse. I think Tyrion will trick him into mounting Viserion by which he will get killed and Tyrion will delete one of the claimants to the gold of the CR.

haha nice :)

Yeah I think something like that, except that BBP represents the betrayers, he already betrayed her, he wont do it again.

I think he represents them because he has some dragon blood from at least 2 people in his family, but he is not a Targaryen. He has betrayed her in the past, and because he has solid white hair. But yes I agree that he will ride Viserion then die not too long after.

[Nymeria_Stark]

So, yes, there are cases of mental illness among the other houes (take lysa), but everyone in westeros seems to know, that there is a high occurance of mad targs.

You forgot to mention Joffrey... Another product of incest.

[Nymeria_Stark]

Just because someone may have Targ blood that doesn't mean they will go mad. I once found a Targ family tree in Towerofthehand.com including the latest Bararheons. But just because the known Bararheons have some Targ blood we don't know if that common Targ ancestor was mad.

Sure, there's evidence that the known inbred Targs we've seen went mad (ie. Aerys, Viserys) but if there's a Targ out there who was not inbred (Jon, Aegon?) I think there's a strong chance theymay not necessarily go mad. Also I think the madness may be a hit or miss kind of thing (ie. Rhaegar).

[ARYa_Nym]

Just because someone may have Targ blood that doesn't mean they will go mad. I once found a Targ family tree in Towerofthehand.com including the latest Bararheons. But just because the known Bararheons have some Targ blood we don't know if that common Targ ancestor was mad.

Sure, there's evidence that the known inbred Targs we've seen went mad (ie. Aerys, Viserys) but if there's a Targ out there who was not inbred (Jon, Aegon?) I think there's a strong chance theymay not necessarily go mad. Also I think the madness may be a hit or miss kind of thing (ie. Rhaegar).

Aerys probably wasn't inbred. Jon's grandparents were incestuous and his great grandparents on his mother's side were related and that might not even be the case with Aerys. The Targs might have married out as far back as Daeron II and Myriah.

Sure if one goes back in his family tree there are incestuous pairs but the same could be said about Jon.

[BitsOfBrains]

Well in Westerosi genetics it seems like physical characteristics of one parent (i.e. Arya favoring Stark, Sansa favoring Tully, Joffrey favoring Cersei, Tommen not so much) determines the childs nature.

Like Tyrion said to Jon, "You have more of the North in you."

Even if Jon is Rhaegars son, it does seem, "he has more of the North in him."

Plus he was raised with Stark values.

Targaryans have people roasted over an open flame for shits and giggles. They have 100 and some odd people arbitrarily picked to be crucified but don't do any crucifying themselves.

Starks don't even use a headsman.

[Kyoshi]

<snip>

Very interesting post. Thought I should ask though: How exactly was Rhaegar mad?

I don't dislike Dany because she's a Targ, though.

Hence my saying: some people.

ASPD is a personality disorder and thus is harder to treat and can't be cured.

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/180/2/110.full

There's more but I won't post all of it. Mainly a huge difference is that they can tell the difference between right and wrong but that doesn't prevent them from doing the wrong thing unlike an insane person who can't tell. They are unlikely to carry out suicide threats (it's usually manipulation) while someone who has say Bipolar disorder is at high risk. Psychopath is different from psychotic.

ETA: & some of them have tried to plead insanity IRL and it did not work.

I don't think Dany has ASPD though.

Thanks for finding this thread. You seem to know your stuff. We could use more people like you.

[Kyoshi]

Well in Westerosi genetics it seems like physical characteristics of one parent (i.e. Arya favoring Stark, Sansa favoring Tully, Joffrey favoring Cersei, Tommen not so much) determines the childs nature.

Like Tyrion said to Jon, "You have more of the North in you."

Even if Jon is Rhaegars son, it does seem, "he has more of the North in him."

Plus he was raised with Stark values.

Targaryans have people roasted over an open flame for shits and giggles. They have 100 and some odd people arbitrarily picked to be crucified but don't do any crucifying themselves.

Starks don't even use a headsman.

I have several issues with your post. The first being that you generalise people so casually. Some Targaryens do horrible things. Some Starks are cool-headed. Some Lannisters are morally reprehensible. Belonging to a certain family does not automatically colour you a certain way. I find your post very troubling.

By your logic, because Jon has Targaryen blood in his veins [all hail R+L=J!...hail!] he should automatically be prone to certain shortcomings. But because he looks Northern, he is automatically immune. Not only is that a contradiction, it is also the reason I started this thread and I'm glad I found you. I would be ever so grateful if you could please elaborated more.

I would also like to point out that Myrcella has the "Lannister look" yet she seems a sweet child. Sansa has the Tully look but I would argue that she has grown into her Northern heritage. The Tully-looking Stark children have direwolces--something of the North. Bran, of all the Stark children I would say Bran is the one more closely associated with the North and the old gods and Northern "magic."

[Mithras]

We can talk about a specific "Targaryen madness" in-universe because that is given in the text. Barristan recalled the words of Jaehaerys (i.e. greatness and madness are the two sides of the same coin for Targaryens). Among the Targaryens he observed, some of them were great and some of them had the "taint". The reason why Targaryens walk so close to the cliff might be magical.

Other than that, every family had madmen or psychopaths abundantly.

[Lord Varys]

Well, I guess a case could be make that Joff was more a person who was effectively groomed to abuse the absolute power he always knew he would eventually get, not so much that he always had this a deeply rooted sadism in him.

Sometimes he really looks like a schoolyard bully who has absolute power. In such a situation the bullying becomes quickly life-threatening and bizarre/dangerous.

Mistreating the weak (i.e. the commons, helpless women, hostages, etc.) is also no big deal in a society like Westeros, and I guess we could consider Joff trying to continue to torment Sansa after her marriage to Tyrion more as his way to humiliate/spite his hated uncle, rather than as a sign of his deeply seated sadism, but I may be mistaken there.

Kyoshi,

did I mention Rhaegar was mad in a posting? I don't remember, but I guess one could make a (weak) case that he also had some issues - his melancholy, for once, his obsession with prophecy (which could be rooted in 'dragon dreams', although nothing indicates as much as of yet), and his rather stormy decision to abduct/run off with Lyanna.

Paper Weaver,

well, I guess Aerion's marriage was brokered or arranged by Maekar, so his mental condition would not have figured into it all that much. If his wife was not a Targaryen - and I'd not rule out that possibility since we don't know who ended with Daella and Rhae in the end, nor do we know if there were any female Targaryen cousins around at this point - the average noble approached by the king would better not try to come up with excuses as to why his daughter was not good enough for the king's son.

If the late birth of Aerion's son is any indication, Aerion may have married after Daeron's death, when he was Prince of Dragonstone and heir to the throne, so the lord refusing to marry his daughter to him would have defied the future king. Considering Aerion's personality, that would have been suicide.

The Realm's Delight was Rhaenyra's name in her youth. Gyldayn mentions it later on occasionally, but it seems that her days as delight were long over even before the Dance began, considering that she gained weight with each of pregnancies and all.

'Maegor with Teats' was the name given to her by the people of KL, and there is as of yet know hint as to how she earned it. It does not seem as if she killed the citizens of KL in the thousands, although she seems to have taken a rather rigid stance against confirmed traitors - which is totally reasonable, from her perspective. The whole Storming of the Dragonpit thing could have just as easily occurred under Aegon II.

Oh, and do you really think Dany will have a say as to who gets a chance to claim either Viserion or Rhaegal? The story seems to suggest that both dragons will be claimed in the very near future, and it does not seem all that likely that Dany will return to Meereen in time to witness or do anything against that. Viserion and Rhaegal have been unchained, they are out there, and if they are not claimed in the very near future, somebody will kill them. Not to speak about the fact that Dragonbinder is about to be blown.

Thus it is very unlikely that there will be a sort of dragonseed situation in Meereen, where Dany asks everyone to try and claim a dragon in exchange for a reward. In fact, a possible twist could include that one or both new dragonriders will decide to take matters (i.e. parts of Dany's forces) into their own hands to make their own power grab in Westeros.

It would not all be surprising at all if Tyrion does such a thing, after he learns that he is in fact Aerys Targaryen's bastard son. Not to mention that Victarion (or Euron) also only need the/a dragon(s) to try to make their power grab, not so much Daenerys, who is believed to be dead.

[Mithras]

Lord Varys, I definitely agree that Dany will have no saying in the immediate riders of Viserion and Rhaegal. Tyrion+Viserion is as good as confirmed. A slightly lower possibility is there for Victarion+Rhaegal.

Dany is led to believe that the three heads of the dragon will be three dragon riders and she has to find and trust two people. Is not that a massive Chekhov's Gun?

I feel like people willfully ignore the facts and claim that Tyrion has good intentions for Dany. No, he does not. Yes he will do a lot of good work for her and he will lead her to succesful moves but he has his own personal goals and he will help Dany as long as their interests are aligned. I can also expect an unrequited love from Tyrion's side to Dany which might create problems between them.

Not only Tyrion but Quentyn/Victarion/Euron and others are also in for the dragons, not specifically Dany.

I am quite sure that Team fAegon will try to sway a dragonrider or two to their side by lavish bribes.

[Lord Varys]

If the dragons are claimed before Dany returns, and if she arrives in time before they make important political decisions which do not involve her - for instance, Tyrion could decide to take his men - the Second Sons, and possibly others who are willing to fight for a dragonrider and the half-brother of their missing/dead queen, to Westeros without waiting for Daenerys.

After all, Tyrion knows that Aegon has gone there. Wouldn't it be interesting if he, not Daenerys, turned out to be the dragon who comes to save Rhaegar's son who has raised the Targaryen banner there?

We have no clue what effects the revelation about his true parentage will have for Tyrion. He could try to find Dany to hook up with his half-sister, but he could also decide to go help his (alleged) nephew - or race there to try to thwart his efforts before he successfully conquers Westeros without dragons.

The idea that Dany chooses the other heads of the dragon, or marries them, seems very unlikely right now. She is separated from her dragons, and not likely to arrive there in time to do anything about it. Nor is she going to trust or marry some guy just because he has successfully claimed a dragon.

[Mrs_Darcy]

Lord Steffon Baratheon's mother was Rhaelle Targaryen. In other words, the distance on the family tree between Bob, Stannis and Renly and the Targs is precisely as long as the distance between Joffrey and Tywin.

Yeah, but whereas Dany is the product of the union of two siblings, Stannis is only quarter-Targaryen. His grandparents come from at least three different houses (Targaryen, Baratheon, Estermont) and four are likely actually, whereas Dany's grandparents do not come from more than two and her grandparents might be closely related as well, since we do not know, who her grandmother was.

ETA: There also is a big difference between Tywin and his grandson Joffrey, which could be attributed to the inbreeding taking place in the Lannister family.

Whereas Tywin's mother comes from a different house (his mother is a Marbrand), his children are the product of a union between cousins (and I think, all three children are more unstable in their behaviour than Tywin).

Regarding his grandchildren, who are the product of a union between siblings (like Dany, Viserys and Rhaegar), there is a notably unstable son (Joffrey), while two seem to have escaped detrimental influences (Tommen and Myrcella).

[Kyoshi]

I think much of the debate is related to this. There are perhaps a hundred different mental conditions. The only Targaryens that can be called "mad" in the superficial sense are Aerys II and Rhaegel, although Rhaegel was said to be gentle which means he didnot pranced naked in the RK all the time, same as Aerys II whose lapses were not frequent when he was young.

Aerion does not belong to their group. I think he and Joffrey are very much alike. Joff was able to play prince charming occasionally, as Sansa noted. That is exactly what Aerion did in the presence of Maekar. They also bullied their younger brother and tortured animals. They both had classical ASPD. Things we know about Maegor also put him into this category, although he might have gone completely "mad" in the Aerys II sense in his late years as Lord Varys suggested.

Daemon Targaryen does not look like a person with classical ASPD. I don't know if he can be said to have a mental disorder. Yes, he was certainly a nasty piece of work but was he clinical? I am not sure.

Dany certainly does not have ASPD.

However, regardless of the success, the pyre event was abnormal and irrational. George confirmed that the magic was unpredictable. Jorah and the other people thought that she completely went nuts. Even Dany had similar thoughts. The reasonable course of action was to sell the eggs and try to raise an army.

She also have this "dragon's temper". When she is furious, she is prone to lose herself. One of the classical example for this is the torture of the wineseller and his daughters. Crucifixion was also a similar case, as she herself confessed that her rage was burning when she gave the order.

One of the reasons why the condition of Aerys II deterioated so much was the influence of Varys who pointed traitors everywhere and fueled his paranoia. Well, "trust no one" says Quaithe. "Treasons" said the Undying. And she is betrayed a lot. If the Second Dance will resemble the first one a little, we can say that she will be betrayed even more. Rhaenyra was broken when she was captured at Dragonstone.

I haven't looked to check who, but one poster in this thread, a few pages back, made a convincing case that Martin hardly lets us into his female characters' minds when they are making big decisions. As a result, their decisions seem to be something that's a result of the moment as opposed to well-planned. This is something that doesn't happen with male characters.

A few examples:

Catelyn apprehending Tyrion

Dany and the pyre

Cersei and everything she does

Brienne screaming out something in her last POV, there was no thought process indicating what her thoughts might be. It could be a storytelling device. :dunno:

Arya and her her kills in Harrenhal

Now compare that to the number of times Tyrion lets us know about his chain, or Jaime and his Riverlands adventures, etc.

[Kyoshi]

Well, I guess a case could be make that Joff was more a person who was effectively groomed to abuse the absolute power he always knew he would eventually get, not so much that he always had this a deeply rooted sadism in him.

Sometimes he really looks like a schoolyard bully who has absolute power. In such a situation the bullying becomes quickly life-threatening and bizarre/dangerous.

Mistreating the weak (i.e. the commons, helpless women, hostages, etc.) is also no big deal in a society like Westeros, and I guess we could consider Joff trying to continue to torment Sansa after her marriage to Tyrion more as his way to humiliate/spite his hated uncle, rather than as a sign of his deeply seated sadism, but I may be mistaken there.

Kyoshi,

did I mention Rhaegar was mad in a posting? I don't remember, but I guess one could make a (weak) case that he also had some issues - his melancholy, for once, his obsession with prophecy (which could be rooted in 'dragon dreams', although nothing indicates as much as of yet), and his rather stormy decision to abduct/run off with Lyanna.

Paper Weaver,

well, I guess Aerion's marriage was brokered or arranged by Maekar, so his mental condition would not have figured into it all that much. If his wife was not a Targaryen - and I'd not rule out that possibility since we don't know who ended with Daella and Rhae in the end, nor do we know if there were any female Targaryen cousins around at this point - the average noble approached by the king would better not try to come up with excuses as to why his daughter was not good enough for the king's son.

If the late birth of Aerion's son is any indication, Aerion may have married after Daeron's death, when he was Prince of Dragonstone and heir to the throne, so the lord refusing to marry his daughter to him would have defied the future king. Considering Aerion's personality, that would have been suicide.

The Realm's Delight was Rhaenyra's name in her youth. Gyldayn mentions it later on occasionally, but it seems that her days as delight were long over even before the Dance began, considering that she gained weight with each of pregnancies and all.

'Maegor with Teats' was the name given to her by the people of KL, and there is as of yet know hint as to how she earned it. It does not seem as if she killed the citizens of KL in the thousands, although she seems to have taken a rather rigid stance against confirmed traitors - which is totally reasonable, from her perspective. The whole Storming of the Dragonpit thing could have just as easily occurred under Aegon II.

Oh, and do you really think Dany will have a say as to who gets a chance to claim either Viserion or Rhaegal? The story seems to suggest that both dragons will be claimed in the very near future, and it does not seem all that likely that Dany will return to Meereen in time to witness or do anything against that. Viserion and Rhaegal have been unchained, they are out there, and if they are not claimed in the very near future, somebody will kill them. Not to speak about the fact that Dragonbinder is about to be blown.

Thus it is very unlikely that there will be a sort of dragonseed situation in Meereen, where Dany asks everyone to try and claim a dragon in exchange for a reward. In fact, a possible twist could include that one or both new dragonriders will decide to take matters (i.e. parts of Dany's forces) into their own hands to make their own power grab in Westeros.

It would not all be surprising at all if Tyrion does such a thing, after he learns that he is in fact Aerys Targaryen's bastard son. Not to mention that Victarion (or Euron) also only need the/a dragon(s) to try to make their power grab, not so much Daenerys, who is believed to be dead.

Sorry buddy. I misread your post and then mixed it up in my head. Really sorry about that.

[Kyoshi]

Lord Varys,

The cat was not Joff's only incident. He clearly started to enjoy tormenting Sansa in every way he can. He wanted to serve Robb's head to her seriously, something which even Cersei was shocked to hear. "Joffrey's justice" became a joke. During the riot, he could have wiped the Flea Bottom out if he had the chance. He squezed Sansa's breast and threatened to rape her in the future. Perhaps the show made it clear for the audience that torturing women aroused him just like they did for Renly-Loras thing, which was also not so obvious in the books.

About Aerion; yes his condition might have been deterioated heavily. But we know that he made a legal marriage and sired a son not so long before he drank wildfire. During THK, it was widely known that he was a total douche but during his later years, if he became worse than he was, then which idiot could have given his daughter to a man like him?

I do not know how much the bias in the sources of Gyldayn is responsible for it but I think Rhaenyra seemed quite broken to me, similar to Aegon II (not literal breaking, lol). From the Realm's Delight to Maegor with Teats, there is a long way.

I think even Dany's dragonriders might betray her in the future. A large and strong man similar to Hugh Hammer will probably be the rider of Rhaegal. A drunken sot similar to Ulf the White will probably be the rider of Viserion. They both have their own agendas and they do not want Dany specifically; only her dragons and sons that she will give to them.

How would Dany react to that if Dany has Two Betrayers like that who kidnaps her "children" and ride them against her?

I think Joffery was just a bully with a lot of power. When these two things are combined in one person, you end up with promises of rape and mutilated cats. He probably would have made good on his rape promise too if he had lived long enough, just to prove that he could do it. I don't think there would have necessarily been any sexual pleasure in the act itself, more likely to be pleasure in wielding his power on someone he believes to be inferior to himself. I don't think rape is always about the sex. Let alone a threat of rape. The cat thing sort of screamed "serial killer in the making!" I don't think it's madness, just cruelty mixed in with illusions of grandeur.

Serial killers [when still young] tend to dispose of people and things that are expandable. Hence the many animal killings by them at a young age. At least that's my understanding of it.