Modesty Lannister Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 1. Stannis himself admits it was looking bleak at Storms End. Say it takes Ned an extra 6 months or more to get there..... 2. Oh Mace.... 3. I think it would dissolve before Viserys is on the IT. You don't rebel against the royal family only to crown them again. The only way that could play out is if Tywin negotiated with Aerys/Viserys to agree to have Cersei marry Viserys, ensuring she becomes Queen, and then backs the Targs. 4. Baby Jon is not necessarily a bastard. 5. What if Jon and Tywin agreed to marry Cersei to the baby? LOL 4. is not possible. There is no window for marriage unless it's a polygamy (if R+L=J at all). Polygamy would be rejected by the High Septon, by Dorne and most probably Reach. Tywin would spit on it. So, what scenario did you have in mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 This thread is full of wishful thinking. Viserys was the second in line to the IT, Stannis the fifth. So, they are the only two candidates. Tywin and Jon Arryn are two obvious king makers. Since, Tywin's real reason for joining RR was to make Cersei queen, it would make sense he would back the candidate who could offer him that. Stannis was already married, so, unless he channeled Henry VIII, he could not deliver. Jon Arryn wanted to be Hand of the King. It was easier for him to manipulate young Viserys than Stannis. On the other hand, Stannis was his ally. So, it would have boiled down to an agreement between Tywin and Jon. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisHenryTudor Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 This thread is full of wishful thinking. Viserys was the second in line to the IT, Stannis the fifth. So, they are the only two candidates. Tywin and Jon Arryn are two obvious king makers. Since, Tywin's real reason for joining RR was to make Cersei queen, it would make sense he would back the candidate who could offer him that. Stannis was already married, so, unless he channeled Henry VIII, he could not deliver. Jon Arryn wanted to be Hand of the King. It was easier for him to manipulate young Viserys than Stannis. On the other hand, Stannis was his ally. So, it would have boiled down to an agreement between Tywin and Jon. In a peaceful political process, yes. This was a rebellion, and the winner would be the one who asserted their claim or took the throne by force. Everything else goes out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyannaisalive Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 wait, wait, wait............WAIT.....Rhaegar is dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorn Snow Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 This thread is full of wishful thinking. Viserys was the second in line to the IT, Stannis the fifth. So, they are the only two candidates. Tywin and Jon Arryn are two obvious king makers. Since, Tywin's real reason for joining RR was to make Cersei queen, it would make sense he would back the candidate who could offer him that. Stannis was already married, so, unless he channeled Henry VIII, he could not deliver. Jon Arryn wanted to be Hand of the King. It was easier for him to manipulate young Viserys than Stannis. On the other hand, Stannis was his ally. So, it would have boiled down to an agreement between Tywin and Jon. No, show Stannis was already married.The only wishful thinking I see here is the idea that Ned Stark could somehow raise either Dany, Viserys or Aegon to become a a good king. Viserys Greyjoy stew is what that looks like.But wouldn´t it be funny though if Regent Jon dies shortly before Viserys is old enough to rule in his own name and Hand Ned finds himself on the chopping block.Cersei would easily get away with cuckolding the king, since all the bastards are blond anyway, and whether it´s Lannister gold or Targaryen silver is hard to tell apart. And LF would easily manipulate everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocoalover1956 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Why the assumption that Aegon's/Viserys' reign will be absolute? The rebels have already shown that they can kill the king and would have more power now than when they first did so; that should be a pretty big deterrent for taking revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Agrippa Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 This thread is full of wishful thinking. Viserys was the second in line to the IT, Stannis the fifth. So, they are the only two candidates. Tywin and Jon Arryn are two obvious king makers. Since, Tywin's real reason for joining RR was to make Cersei queen, it would make sense he would back the candidate who could offer him that. Stannis was already married, so, unless he channeled Henry VIII, he could not deliver. Jon Arryn wanted to be Hand of the King. It was easier for him to manipulate young Viserys than Stannis. On the other hand, Stannis was his ally. So, it would have boiled down to an agreement between Tywin and Jon. Stannis isn't married in the books. In this case the Tyrells kidnap Stannis and renly. Th win plays hero and then you have depressed house wives of kings landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Rethought this and I think that if both died, word of this would have gotten to KL, and the Mad King sooner. The Mad King may have been able to enact his end game, and KL burns. No one rules it since it's gone. The tragedy would unite the realm and IDK, maybe a council is set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorn Snow Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 Why the assumption that Aegon's/Viserys' reign will be absolute? The rebels have already shown that they can kill the king and would have more power now than when they first did so; that should be a pretty big deterrent for taking revenge.True. Basically, by winning the crown they have (or should at least) imposed magna carta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Saga Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I Çf r+l = J is discovered in time, then Jon Snow as the king, and Ned as his regent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Stannis isn't married in the books. In this case the Tyrells kidnap Stannis and renly. Th win plays hero and then you have depressed house wives of kings landing. We have already established I was wrong in posts 112&113. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I Çf r+l = J is discovered in time, then Jon Snow as the king, and Ned as his regent. How can it possibly be discovered and if it is discover, which lord paramount would acknowledge a bastard as a king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 No, show Stannis was already married.The only wishful thinking I see here is the idea that Ned Stark could somehow raise either Dany, Viserys or Aegon to become a a good king. Viserys Greyjoy stew is what that looks like.But wouldn´t it be funny though if Regent Jon dies shortly before Viserys is old enough to rule in his own name and Hand Ned finds himself on the chopping block.Cersei would easily get away with cuckolding the king, since all the bastards are blond anyway, and whether it´s Lannister gold or Targaryen silver is hard to tell apart. And LF would easily manipulate everybody.We have already established I was wrong in posts 112&113. LF would not be in the position to manipulate anyone without Lysa Arryn to bring him to KL. Who is Viserys Greyjoy? How on Earth can Jon become acknowledged as a rightful heir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 This thread is full of wishful thinking. Viserys was the second in line to the IT, Stannis the fifth. So, they are the only two candidates. Tywin and Jon Arryn are two obvious king makers. Since, Tywin's real reason for joining RR was to make Cersei queen, it would make sense he would back the candidate who could offer him that. Stannis was already married, so, unless he channeled Henry VIII, he could not deliver. Jon Arryn wanted to be Hand of the King. It was easier for him to manipulate young Viserys than Stannis. On the other hand, Stannis was his ally. So, it would have boiled down to an agreement between Tywin and Jon. No, Tywin does not have nearly the pull in this that you say he does. While Ned, Jon and Hoster would like to have his gold and troops on their side they dont trust him one bit and he already cast his die with them. What he going to do, go join Dorne (after he just killed Ellia and the kids) or the Reach (after his son killed the King) and ask to join their side. He can use his money and troops to win favor but he does not have a lot of say. No one is going to put a Targaryen back on the Throne, not Aegon (who is most likely dead) not Viserys and not Jon. There are only three correct choices here (you can argue which one is more correct) Ned, Jon and Hoster. They are the ones who are going to be making the descion and there is no one outside of that group that qualifies No Lord Paramount is going to allow his bannerman be King over him. So that leaves Ned, Jon, Hoster, Stannis, Mace, Tywin and Doran and the Targaryens The Rebles are not going to allow the losers to be King, so that leaves Ned, Jon, Hoster, Stannis and Tywin The Rebels are not going to allow someone who joined at the last second to be King. So leaves Jon, Ned, Hoster and Stannis Now stannis is under siege, extremely young and not present to press his claim. So only Jon, Ned and Hoster qualify The truth is that really any of the three could have an argument why they would OR would not be made King. I think its Hoster just because he has more benifits than negitives and solves a lot of problems, but its an opinon. Hoster has an Heir for the Throne, a Tully to leave Riverrun to. His daughters (now Princesses) are married in to the Arryns and Starks which raises both of those House's prestige His son Edmure is about Cersie's age so they can marry and provide Tywinn with his future Queen, thus securing the Lannisters Jon can become Hand of the King, and Ned can go back to Winterfell. Hoster's only real negitive is that the Tully's are a fairly new Lord Paramount family (@ 300 years) but the Rebels won the Throne by force and its not like the Reach or Dorne can say no. They lost. Jon Arryn will make ovetures to those two territories just like he did after Robert became King and smooth it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Ayras Lord Commander Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 4. is not possible. There is no window for marriage unless it's a polygamy (if R+L=J at all). Polygamy would be rejected by the High Septon, by Dorne and most probably Reach. Tywin would spit on it. So, what scenario did you have in mind? Nope. The Faith hates incest, not polygamy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Nope. The Faith hates incest, not polygamy. They're not too fond of polygamy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Ayras Lord Commander Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 No, but they're explicit about incest. I think the majority of v93 of R+L=J discussed this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 How does their distaste for one thing effect their distaste for the other? I don't think anyone was talking about incest until you brought it up. It's not like they can't hate more than one thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batbob45 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 what if Stannis became king instead and marry Cersei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 what if Stannis became king instead and marry Cersei There wouldn't be enough support for Stannis as King. The Targ blood in the Baratheons really wasn't that important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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