Red Rahloo Connington Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Hey guys! First post here on the forum, although I have been creeping for months. After studying the geography of Westeros, and seeing the distance between Winterfell and the Iron Islands, I don't see why Theon Greyjoy became a ward of Eddard Stark. From what we hear about the Greyjoy Rebellion it was mostly fought in the Westerlands. Why if the Westerlands was under attack didn't the Warden of the West (Tywin Lannister) attain Theon as his hostage in the aftermath? From what we see in the books Tywin is a shrewd calculating man. He never misses an opportunity that benefits his house. So why then does Tywin Lannister let Eddard Stark take the heir to the Iron Islands. One can plead the case that King Robert thought it would have been better that Theon be raised among Eddard Starks' sons and the heir to Winterfell; but I don't see it in Tywin Lannisters character to give up the influence that comes with raising the heir to the Iron Islands to Eddard Stark, especially knowing that there has been no love loss between the Starks and Lannisters after Tywin sacked Kings Landing, had Prince Rhaegars children murdered and Jamie turned Kingslayer. It would even make sense for Theon to be a ward of Hoster Tully, given the Iron men's history of reaving in the Riverlands, but why the North? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyannaisalive Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 quite a few reasons IMO 1. They also attacked the north and IIRC Robert didnt even arrive until Ned had actually fought the IB off his lands and back to the Iron islands (the majority anyway). 2. Ned HATES Tywin Lannister and would never entrust anything to him. He said something like " I would sooner trust a child to a pit viper than Tywin Lannister". Ned isn't afraid of Tywin and wont let him make the choices like Robert allowed Cersei later on. Thats why tywin was angry Jaime didn't kill Ned at the beginning IIRC because he didn't want to fight a united north and riverlands under the command of Ned 3. Tywin probably didn't have a say in the matter anyway, IIRC they burned the Lannister fleet but didn't actually attack any of tywins lands except lannisport so the North was more effected by the rebellion. Ned was extremely close to Robert and Jon Arryn and had much more sway so when he said he would take Theon, Robert probably didn't even think twice about it. 4. And in the current times the north was attacked by the IB much more often than the westerlands (and probably more than the riverlands if by even a little) so it made more sense for Theon to be a ward of the North and its liege lord. And welcome to the Forum!! :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rahloo Connington Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 They attacked the north harder IIRC. Tywin didn't have a say what happened especially since Ned was in commander of the amry to put down the rebellion IIRC. And he also had much more say in decisions because of his close relationship with Robert and Jon Arryn. Plus Tywin would have just killed them all. And like you said Ned didnt like Tywin he once said "he would rather trust a child to a pit viper than to Tywin Lannister" or something like that. Ned wasn't afraid of Tywin and wasn't going to let him make the decisions Thanks for your input. I was not aware that the north suffered such attacks from the Iron men. I must have missed it. Although I do recall Alysane Mormont telling Asha Greyjoy that all the children in Bear Island grow up fearing the Krakens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Also, WF is very much landlocked. KL, Storm's End and Casterly Rock are by the sea. None of them really trusted Balon. And keeping Theon hostage at a port city, would just be a bigger risk, if Balon got it in his reckless head to attack the port cities to free his son. He can't do that with WF. As soon as he attacks a shore or port in the North, Theon's head would be in danger. They'd never get to WF in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyannaisalive Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Thanks for your input. I was not aware that the north suffered such attacks from the Iron men. I must have missed it. Although I do recall Alysane Mormont telling Asha Greyjoy that all the children in Bear Island grow up fearing the Krakens. Yeah they used to attack Bear Island when the men would be away fishing. Thats why its also a women warrior culture because they learned to fight in order to protect themselves from the IB when the men were away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyannaisalive Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Also, WF is very much landlocked. KL, Storm's End and Casterly Rock are by the sea. None of them really trusted Balon. And keeping Theon hostage at a port city, would just be a bigger risk, if Balon got it in his reckless head to attack the port cities to free his son. He can't do that with WF. As soon as he attacks a shore or port in the North, Theon's head would be in danger. They'd never get to WF in time. :agree: This too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 It's fairly simple: Whoever holds Theon, has Balon by the balls (or so the greenlanders think, turns out Balon doesn't play by those rules), in effect controlling the Iron Islands as well as his own lands. Giving that sort of power to a man as ruthlessly ambitious as Tywin would be....bad. Even Robert realized this. Giving it to the utterly dependable and loyal Ned, however, is ensuring that Robert's rule is virtually secure. Whoever would rise up against him has three regions against them, four if you count the Vale who is run by Jon Arryn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Though many don't like it, it was probably about keeping him safe. Eddard was still affected by what happened to Rhaenys and Aegon, and being that the King of the land approved of it and was married to the man who ordered it, he wanted to make sure he wasn't needlessly slaughtered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rahloo Connington Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 Though many don't like it, it was probably about keeping him safe. Eddard was still affected by what happened to Rhaenys and Aegon, and being that the King of the land approved of it and was married to the man who ordered it, he wanted to make sure he wasn't needlessly slaughtered. Oh my how that backfired lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 such is life. help someone out, they trash your house. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Though many don't like it, it was probably about keeping him safe. Eddard was still affected by what happened to Rhaenys and Aegon, and being that the King of the land approved of it and was married to the man who ordered it, he wanted to make sure he wasn't needlessly slaughtered. Ridiculous. The single time we even see Ned think about Theon, it's how he needs to keep him on a tight watch because he wants to use him as a tool against his father. There is no indication Ned had any concern for Theon beyond his use as a means to pressure Balon, quite the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyannaisalive Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Ridiculous. The single time we even see Ned think about Theon, it's how he needs to keep him on a tight watch because he wants to use him as a tool against his father.There is no indication Ned had any concern for Theon beyond his use as a means to pressure Balon, quite the contrary.I think people tend to think that because Theon was raised well and with his sons and that Ned didn't treat him bad means that he likes or cares for Theon. But Ned was just doing the honorable things that befits Theon being born a noble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rahloo Connington Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 I think people tend to think that because Theon was raised well and with his sons and that Ned didn't treat him bad means that he likes or cares for Theon. But Ned was just doing the honorable things that befits Theon being born a noble. Yea, in one of the Theon POV's in ADWD he states that Ned never showed any warmness towards him because he knew that one day he might have to kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Because Ned's Bob's pal and was there when Pyke fell. We don't even know if Tywin left the Westerlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Yea, in one of the Theon POV's in ADWD he states that Ned never showed any warmness towards him because he knew that one day he might have to kill him. And yet he also remembers Ned "trying to play the father with him sometimes," but in Theon's eyes he was always the man who took him away from his home. Theon also only considered Robb worthy of his notice. And he gave himself an outward identity that set himself apart from the Starks. Not defending Ned here, but just pointing out that Theon isn't the most objective narrator and inconsistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 And yet he also remembers Ned "trying to play the father with him sometimes," "Trying" and "play" are the key words here. Ned only made a half-assed show of it, and Theon saw right through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 "Trying" and "play" are the key words here. Ned only made a half-assed show of it, and Theon saw right through it. Yup, just as he saw right through Jon envying him, in the same continued thought, and that the others weren't worthy of his notice. Theon is just such an astute observer and so objective. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 "Trying" and "play" are the key words here. Ned only made a half-assed show of it, and Theon saw right through it. Or rather, Theon rejected it, because he wanted to keep his own Greyjoy identity and held fast to his resentment of the Starks and the rest of the mainlanders for having put down his father's rebellion. Ned Stark was nothing if not honest and straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Also let's not forget that the moment he is actually confronted with his father for the first time and thus can actually make a comparison, he found that Ned was after all a warmer man than his father was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Or rather, Theon rejected it, because he wanted to keep his own Greyjoy identity and held fast to his resentment of the Starks and the rest of the mainlanders for having put down his father's rebellion. Ned Stark was nothing if not honest and straightforward. Just like every other child, I once couldn't find my parents again on the beach, and a very nice woman brought me to the guard tower and remained with me to help calm me down and reassure me. She was nothing but genuinely nice to me. But my greatest fear at the time was that I feared she wanted to take my mom's place, would adopt me and I'd never see my parents again ever. And I was nasty to her: rejective, unfriendly, rebuffing and cold. My parents felt sorry for her afterwards, lol. It's a typical fear and reaction from a child, in order to stay loyal to their parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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