Why was Theon a ward of Winterfell?

[Lee-Sensei]

Though many don't like it, it was probably about keeping him safe. Eddard was still affected by what happened to Rhaenys and Aegon, and being that the King of the land approved of it and was married to the man who ordered it, he wanted to make sure he wasn't needlessly slaughtered.

Theon would have been safe anywhere since highborn hoatages arent usually tortured. Unless they sent him to the boltons or something.

[LordStoneheart]

Theon would have been safe anywhere since highborn hoatages arent usually tortured. Unless they sent him to the boltons or something.

First of all, you misspelled hostages as hoatages and now I want a hoagie. :)

The second statement is exactly the point I made. He might not have been safe elsewhere, especially if the crown was more involved. Based on Ned's history vs Tywin and Robert, it seems obvious that Ned was in part inspired by a sense of protection for Theon. In his chapters he's still haunted by the memory of the Targaryen children.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Theon considered Ned as his father and he didn't have a bad childhood in Winterfell. It's not like we heard that from anyone else, it was Theon himself calling Ned his "real father".

Whatever were Ned's reasons to take him, either for protection, a political manoeuvre or pity, he not only got sure he was treated according to his rank, but he did involve him in his activities along with his children (the execution of the deserter) and tried to teach him how to rule, because one day, he would rule the Iron Islands. Even if Theon realised that he was a hostage, he barely felt that way, because he called Robb a brother and Ned, a father.

[LordStoneheart]

Whatever were Ned's reasons to take him, either for protection, a political manoeuvre or pity, he not only got sure he was treated according to his rank, but he did involve him in his activities along with his children (the execution of the deserter) and tried to teach him how to rule, because one day, he would rule the Iron Islands. Even if Theon realised that he was a hostage, he barely felt that way, because he called Robb a brother and Ned, a father.

Yes, I agree. I feel like Theon's status as a hostage prevents his defenders from seeing any sort of grey area in the situation and demonizing Ned as if he wasn't a good and just man that treated him fairly.

[Lord Reaver]

Theon considered Ned as his father and he didn't have a bad childhood in Winterfell. It's not like we heard that from anyone else, it was Theon himself calling Ned his "real father".

Whatever were Ned's reasons to take him, either for protection, a political manoeuvre or pity, he not only got sure he was treated according to his rank, but he did involve him in his activities along with his children (the execution of the deserter) and tried to teach him how to rule, because one day, he would rule the Iron Islands. Even if Theon realised that he was a hostage, he barely felt that way, because he called Robb a brother and Ned, a father.

Actually, he calls him "like a father". Thing is, that's not in his POV, it's in Cat's, and he's still in Winterfell, being a hostage of the Starks. Of course he's going to say what he knows they'd like to hear. We don't know if he meant it, but considering we get his feelings on the matter later in his own POV, it's a fair bet he's lying through his teeth.

And we know from Theon's POV that he wasn't treated according to his rank, that Ned certainly didn't try to teach him anything (where did you come up with that one?), and that yes, he sure felt like a hostage. As he says to Rodrik, when he returns to Winterfell: "Hostage and prisoner, I call it."

[sweetsunray]

Actually, he calls him "like a father". Thing is, that's not in his POV, it's in Cat's, and he's still in Winterfell, being a hostage of the Starks. Of course he's going to say what he knows they'd like to hear. We don't know if he meant it, but considering we get his feelings on the matter later in his own POV, it's a fair bet he's lying through his teeth.

And we know from Theon's POV that he wasn't treated according to his rank, that Ned certainly didn't try to teach him anything (where did you come up with that one?), and that yes, he sure felt like a hostage. As he says to Rodrik, when he returns to Winterfell: "Hostage and prisoner, I call it."

And that same Rodrik curses himself for him ever teaching him how to fight. Luwin, Rodrik, the kennelmaster... they probably all taught Theon behind Ned's back... Right! Ned taught his children and Theon by example.

[Cas Stark]

Actually, he calls him "like a father". Thing is, that's not in his POV, it's in Cat's, and he's still in Winterfell, being a hostage of the Starks. Of course he's going to say what he knows they'd like to hear. We don't know if he meant it, but considering we get his feelings on the matter later in his own POV, it's a fair bet he's lying through his teeth.

And we know from Theon's POV that he wasn't treated according to his rank, that Ned certainly didn't try to teach him anything (where did you come up with that one?), and that yes, he sure felt like a hostage. As he says to Rodrik, when he returns to Winterfell: "Hostage and prisoner, I call it."

This seems like you are trying to have it both ways.

First, you say Theon has Stockholm Syndrome, which is where his positive reflections on the Starks come from, and then you turn around and say that those positive reflections were him willfully lying and dissembling to throw off his captors to his real feelings, which were always negative but hidden. It can't be both.

[Hangover of the Morning]

Slightly OT but I just realised that it's kinda funny that every time Ned goes on fighting in a rebellion he returns home with a new kid.

[Lord Reaver]

This seems like you are trying to have it both ways.

First, you say Theon has Stockholm Syndrome, which is where his positive reflections on the Starks come from, and then you turn around and say that those positive reflections were him willfully lying and dissembling to throw off his captors to his real feelings, which were always negative but hidden. It can't be both.

Wrong thread, bud. But if it's that big a deal for you, sure I'll concede it's not SS as you define it.

[The Raven's Teeth]

In truth we don't really have an un-biased/objective PoV on Theon's childhood at Winterfell. But his emotions regarding Robb in aDwD make me think it wasn't as bad as he tried to make out, and that any comment to the contrary is just his (misguided) attempt to 'play the ironborn'.

And on the topic of Theon being sent to ward at Casterly Rock, I don't think he'd have lasted long there to be honest. Tywin was most likely out for revenge for what Theon's uncles did during the Greyjoy Rebellion.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Slightly OT but I just realised that it's kinda funny that every time Ned goes on fighting in a rebellion he returns home with a new kid.

:lol:

If everything had gone as planned, he could have returned Winterfell with three new kids called Myrcella, Joffrey and Tommen :lol:

[Lost Melnibonean]

Ned would sooner entrust a child to a pit viper than to Lord Tywin...

Eddard I, Game

And as others have noted, the Ned called his banners and joined his dear friend Robert in battle once again to capture Pyke.

[drakemunky]

I don't think we'd hear of the Greyjoys if Tywin had his way. The Iron Islands probably would have been lain to ruins and transformed into a Penal colony for the whole Westeros. Or just given to the Night's Watch once the resources were tapped clean.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

No one's mentioned this yet so I will. I think at least one of the goals in keeping Theon a hostage was to eventually assimilate him and send him back to Pyke to succeed Balon as an ally of the Stark-Baratheon-Arryn-Tully bloc. One of the ways to do this is to build social bonds through fostering. That's how Ned and Robert became close. Robb was a few years younger than Theon, but I think at least some of it was the hope that Robb and Theon could bond together and eventually form a political alliance that would make the Iron Islands, under Theon, more politically benign. It almost worked, too.

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

The keys have generally been touched. WF is in-land, and a port city would be more vulnerable to the IB. Ned has been shown to value children's lives, even his enemies' children. Tywin proved the opposite. Ned is also buds with Bob. But one slight point has been missed:

And on the topic of Theon being sent to ward at Casterly Rock, I don't think he'd have lasted long there to be honest. Tywin was most likely out for revenge for what Theon's uncles did during the Greyjoy Rebellion.

I think you all forgot that prior to SweetRobin, Tywin didn't take wards. Maybe he would have taken Theon, but his past was not about raising other people's children.

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

No one's mentioned this yet so I will. I think at least one of the goals in keeping Theon a hostage was to eventually assimilate him and send him back to Pyke to succeed Balon as an ally of the Stark-Baratheon-Arryn-Tully bloc. One of the ways to do this is to build social bonds through fostering. That's how Ned and Robert became close. Robb was a few years younger than Theon, but I think at least some of it was the hope that Robb and Theon could bond together and eventually form a political alliance that would make the Iron Islands, under Theon, more politically benign. It almost worked, too.

:agree:

This too

[Boarsbane]

Because they thought Balon would value his son's life over a crown when and if a golden chance to rebel presented itself, they were wrong.

[drakemunky]

No one's mentioned this yet so I will. I think at least one of the goals in keeping Theon a hostage was to eventually assimilate him and send him back to Pyke to succeed Balon as an ally of the Stark-Baratheon-Arryn-Tully bloc. One of the ways to do this is to build social bonds through fostering. That's how Ned and Robert became close. Robb was a few years younger than Theon, but I think at least some of it was the hope that Robb and Theon could bond together and eventually form a political alliance that would make the Iron Islands, under Theon, more politically benign. It almost worked, too.

They should have taken Asha too then, Balon never would have allowed it.

[Bryanfury]

No one's mentioned this yet so I will. I think at least one of the goals in keeping Theon a hostage was to eventually assimilate him and send him back to Pyke to succeed Balon as an ally of the Stark-Baratheon-Arryn-Tully bloc. One of the ways to do this is to build social bonds through fostering. That's how Ned and Robert became close. Robb was a few years younger than Theon, but I think at least some of it was the hope that Robb and Theon could bond together and eventually form a political alliance that would make the Iron Islands, under Theon, more politically benign. It almost worked, too.

I agree, and I also think Ned would rather replace Balon with Theon in the event of another rebellion as opposed to killing Theon to absolutely no benefit whatsoever.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I agree, and I also think Ned would rather replace Balon with Theon in the event of another rebellion as opposed to killing Theon to absolutely no benefit whatsoever.

Killing Theon does have a benefit - it shows future rebels that you aren't to be trifled with. If Balon rose again and Theon was spared, no one would take threats by the Starks or the Crown seriously again