Addressing Stark bias: Part 2

[Lee-Sensei]

Uh, are people trying to prove there's a Stark bias by being biased against the Starks? You've got to work hard to argue the Starks were wrong for suspecting Lannister involvement in Bran's accident.

Who said that? What was said was that they didn't have any proof, and that's true.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

Afaik I didn't say worse, and this is wrong. The insurance men was killed because she wanted to stay at with the Faceless men instead of becoming a merchants' assistant, Cat of the Canals or going back to Westeros.

And she's an eleven year-old girl with PTSD who's witnessed rape and torture. What a shock that she does't always make what the reader would.

In her expereince, commoners like merchants assistants and little girls who push carts of seafood get raped and murdered. She tried going to Eastwatch, and couldn't. Once in westeros, she's a walking target with no money, family or friends or a way to get to Jon.

In her confused and depressed state of mind, the House of Black and White is her only hope.

Eleven year old girl vs. adult man. Different standards, and no apologies.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

Seriously comparing the trauma of Jaime and Arya?

Despite all that you mention about Jaime's weak "trauma" he still had his family and home intact and he got to go poke his sister for a couple of more years.

Arya though has been abused and seen her father killed, believes that every family member is dead except one, her home is destroyed and the people she knew murdered. She's seen horrors Jaime haven't she's suffered losses like Jaime his unfeeling self does not know of. And she's alone in the world who have done some really cruel things to her. Arya has to learn to survive Jaime has never known Arya's pain, fear, or trauma.

:agree:

[John Doe]

I find it funny that people are being called biased against the Starks that often only for arguing in any way against some of their actions.

But but but but Jaime got an unflattering nickname

This was not my point at all.

[John Doe]

:agree:

Interesting. She still chose a life as a killer over a relatively peaceful life in Braavos or a return to Westeros. We also know that the ability to kill makes her powerful in her mind.

[Minsc]

I find it funny that people are being called biased against the Starks that often only for arguing in any way against some of their actions.

You mean like starting a thread and claiming Stark fans are all biased because they don't like the actions of their enemies and don't play a game of false equivalency?

[John Doe]

because they don't like the actions of their enemies and don't play a game of false equivalency?

Quote?

[Minsc]

Quote?

This thread and the last one is full of it.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

Interesting. She still chose a life as a killer over a relatively peaceful life in Braavos or a return to Westeros. We also know that the ability to kill makes her powerful in her mind.

In her 11 years of life, has learned that commoners get raped and murdered and tortured. Their life is not peaceful and she is right.

Has PTSD and probably a shit-ton of other mental illnesses.

Has no way to survive in Westeros or get to Jon after having just escaped the place.

11 year old girl. Adult man. Different standards and no aplogies, on top of the former having a vastly more shitty life.

[RoamingRonin]

Who said that? What was said was that they didn't have any proof, and that's true.

This is about reader bias, isn't it? We, the reader, know Jaime threw Bran from the window. We know the Starks are right for suspecting them. Please don't be ridiculous just to argue a point.

In universe: Bran was the only witness to his accident. Not sure what "proof" you're looking for.

Looking at it from the Stark perspective: The Lannisters show up at Winterfell and Bran is crippled soon after. Red flag #1. Catelyn receives the letter from Lysa. Red flag #2. Bran is almost killed by an assassin and the assassin is well paid. Red flag #3. Everything screams Lannisters.

Quote?

This thread is full of quotes.

[kimim]

Interesting. She still chose a life as a killer over a relatively peaceful life in Braavos or a return to Westeros. We also know that the ability to kill makes her powerful in her mind.

Not just in her mind. It makes her powerful, period. I don't care how much she's suffered, or how old she is. Jaqen gives her the coin not because he's feeling sorry for her, but because he sees something in her that can be turned into a faceless man. Sandor sees something dangerous as well. She leaves him at the end not because she is unwilling to kill him, but because she's unwilling to put an end to his suffering.

Arya is a scary little girl.

...and this is why I like the Starks. They're unpredictable.

[The Wolves]

You're right, at the top of my head I knew no better word for it. I'm not rying to argue that she is not traumatized, but she is turning into a serial killer nonetheless.

She's a victim of her environment what else would she be in such a violent world. Yes she is turning into a serial killer but what would you expect from someone who has suffered the way Arya has?

Jaime has no excuse as to why he spent years fecking his sister/queen, disregarding countless innocent lives including his children's lives, committing treason and being a mindless killing machine for his psychotic sister.

[The Wolves]

Interesting. She still chose a life as a killer over a relatively peaceful life in Braavos or a return to Westeros.We also know that the ability to kill makes her powerful in her mind.

Why would she return to Westeros so the Lqnnisters and their henchmen could snatch her up and use her for their selfish purpose or give her to another violent monster to gain control of the North?

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

She's a victim of her environment what else would she be in such a violent world. Yes she is turning into a serial killer but what would you expect from someone who has suffered the way Arya has?

Jaime has no excuse as to why he spent years fecking his sister/queen, disregarding countless innocent lives including his children's lives, committing treason and being a mindless killing machine for his psychotic sister.

To be fair, after he tried to kill Bran she was just like, "YOU DUMBASS HE WAS EIGHT HE HAD NO CONCEPT OF WHAT WE WERE DOING. YOU COULD HAVE SCARED HIM INTO SILENCE.

But if Jaime hadn't he wouldn't be on his way to becoming Bran the Builder 2.0. So maybe Bran can send him a thank you card one day.

[UVA]

Who embodies the Stark ethos, though? Rickard, the political schemer? Brandon, the hot-tempered, irresponsible horndog? Wild Lyanna? Ned was fostered by Jon Aryn, not raised in Winterfell to absorb the essence of being a Stark. He was the younger son, not expected to take over the North. IMO basing any Stark ethos on Ned is a mistake; he's atypical.

Oh I agree with you. My comment is speaking to the ridiculous and frequent generalized appeals to Northern "honor", Lannister "pragmatism", Dornish obstinance, etc. to justify/explain a cultural region as opposed to more individualized beliefs. In fact, I don't think that any perceived House ethos has intrinsic merit.

[Lee-Sensei]

This is about reader bias, isn't it? We, the reader, know Jaime threw Bran from the window. We know the Starks are right for suspecting them. Please don't be ridiculous just to argue a point.

In universe: Bran was the only witness to his accident. Not sure what "proof" you're looking for.

Looking at it from the Stark perspective: The Lannisters show up at Winterfell and Bran is crippled soon after. Red flag #1. Catelyn receives the letter from Lysa. Red flag #2. Bran is almost killed by an assassin and the assassin is well paid. Red flag #3. Everything screams Lannisters.

This thread is full of quotes.

I'm not being ridiculous. You are. We know, but they don't. For example, everyone also blames the Lannisters for Jon Arryns death, but we know that LF and Lysa was behind it. You're bias is clouding your judgement.

Absolute proof. They can't be condemned by the Starks without it. In the end they got confirmation, but they were acting without proof for 2 books.

And yet still they have no evidence. Furthermore, the Lannister they did take hostage was actually innocent of any crime at that point. Besides that, King Robert ordered her to release Tyrion.

[Starkfaithful85]

I'm not being ridiculous. You are. We know, but they don't. For example, everyone also blames the Lannisters for Jon Arryns death, but we know that LF and Lysa was behind it. You're bias is clouding your judgement.

Absolute proof. They can't be condemned by the Starks without it. In the end they got confirmation, but they were acting without proof for 2 books.

And yet still they have no evidence. Furthermore, the Lannister they did take hostage was actually innocent of any crime at that point. Besides that, King Robert ordered her to release Tyrion.

/

the US troops had no evidence of the torture and murder of jews by the nazis...all we knew was that they were being rounded up and something was being done, we learned this by the fleeing jews from europe...would we have been wrong to fight to help liberate them from the camps even if we had no actual knowledge or proof until we actually got there...whether or not you need irrefutable proof to act is immaterial and a poor way to act is to fail to make preventitive moves against an enemy that you believe has hurt your family and friends

also Lysa and LF were behind it but pycell, a lannister catspaw, covered up the poisoning because he believed arryn knew the truth about the queen and her brother

[Lee-Sensei]

/

the US troops had no evidence of the torture and murder of jews by the nazis...all we knew was that they were being rounded up and something was being done, we learned this by the fleeing jews from europe...would we have been wrong to fight to help liberate them from the camps even if we had no actual knowledge or proof until we actually got there...whether or not you need irrefutable proof to act is immaterial and a poor way to act is to fail to make preventitive moves against an enemy that you believe has hurt your family and friends

also Lysa and LF were behind it but pycell, a lannister catspaw, covered up the poisoning because he believed arryn knew the truth about the queen and her brother

The US didn't go to war with the Nazis to rescue the Jews. They entered the war because Japan attack Pearl Harbor and was threatening American interests in Asia and the Pacific.

Except that wasn't the Lannisters. They wrongly accused the Lannisters for Jon Arryns death on faulty evidence. Believing Lysa is one thing since she has no reason to believe her sister would lie to her, but believing LF is another. When Cat gets to KL she even notes that she can't trust the people there. Varys not at all and LF only slightly more than Varys. It seems like Cat was forced to hold the idiot ball to further the plot.

[Starkfaithful85]

i am referring to when we declared war on germany...we could have focused all of our strength in the pacific but we beleived that something morally wrong was going on under the german rules...so we called for war in europe as well

[Game Of Thrones]

i am referring to when we declared war on germany...we could have focused all of our strength in the pacific but we beleived that something morally wrong was going on under the german rules...so we called for war in europe as well

No. Germany declared war on US because US declared war on Germany's ally, Japan.