"Osuna's bullring: Why Game of Thrones shouldn't film there"

[Ingelheim]

oh I get what you're saying - but you can't really hate it - otherwise you wouldn't live so close to the ring.

That logic is within the same realm as the logic you're using. You support the neighborhood of the bullring by living there, spending your money there. This benefits the bullring - directly, since a run-down neighborhood wouldn't attract so many people, and there would be fewer people attending the bullfights.

I live here because I was born here. I'm from Madrid. The houses around the Plaza are actually cheap. And my mother and my father live here, in the house where I grew up, quite near to my house itself. I'm 27, so this is perfect for me. Nothing else.

You actually don't know anything about this neighborhood. There are tons of houses completely empty. People do not like to live around the Plaza. Not because the Plaza itself, but because many other reasons.

I also lived in Texas as well. I do not support death penalty.

[PatrickStormborn]

By filming in an active bullring, they are completely missing the purpose of the scene. If the story they're telling is contradicted by the production, that is a very clear failure of the showrunners.

I would much prefer if the scene was heavily altered than for it to be misrepresented in such a glaring way. By filming in an active bullring, they're supporting the sort of blood sport that drives Dany to reject the Meereenese. Thus, it would perhaps be more appropriate if they had decided to bypass the scene altogether and have Drogon show up at Dany's wedding.

If Dany doesn't reject the blood sport, then Drogon showing up is irrelevant because his showing up deliberately coincides with her rejection of the Meereenese. And if Dany rejects the blood sport in Daznak's Pit, then why are the showrunners paying an active bullring?

Hopefully, as filming in the bullring draws closer, the showrunners will face more criticism that will - at the very least - discourage other showrunners from ever making this sort of decision.

But let's not pretend our only options are to ignore the show or watch the show but ignore the immoral decisions made by the showrunners. We are very able to openly voice our concerns and criticisms.

[WalkerOfWhite]

oh come on - seriously?

By filming in an active bullring, they are completely missing the purpose of the scene. If the story they're telling is contradicted by the production, that is a very clear failure of the showrunners.

Do you really believe that the majority of the viewers will know one way or another that this singular ring is in active use? or care? I mean really - nobody is going to sit back while a dragon is charring some poor schmuck in the ring while 15 other poor schmucks are trying to stick it with spears and say to themselves - "Hey - I recognize that place! That's one of the rings where they still have active bullfights!".

Holy crap - I can't even begin to comprehend the degree of self-importance that place must inspire.

By the time they're done - between live action and green-screens, nobody is going to recognize this as anything other than a hell of a fight. The location is a backdrop at best...

[Seneti]

I wouldn't take Peta as a reference of anything because they also were the ones saying that Farmville and Pokemon were about animal cruelty because the virtual animals were all cramped there... and it was cruel. To them. :/

:lmao:

Thanks for making my day. That is just hilarious!

[Cold Crashing Waves]

By filming in an active bullring, they are completely missing the purpose of the scene. If the story they're telling is contradicted by the production, that is a very clear failure of the showrunners.

I would much prefer if the scene was heavily altered than for it to be misrepresented in such a glaring way. By filming in an active bullring, they're supporting the sort of blood sport that drives Dany to reject the Meereenese. Thus, it would perhaps be more appropriate if they had decided to bypass the scene altogether and have Drogon show up at Dany's wedding.

If Dany doesn't reject the blood sport, then Drogon showing up is irrelevant because his showing up deliberately coincides with her rejection of the Meereenese. And if Dany rejects the blood sport in Daznak's Pit, then why are the showrunners paying an active bullring?

One has nothing to do with the other. The showrunners aren't trying to preach a message they're telling a fictional story. It's a shooting location, nothing more.

I'm against bullfighting but Osuna, along with the sport, will be a massive attraction whether GoT films there or not and I won't villainize the showrunners for choosing it because they thought it would be a good spot to film the show.

[Tibatonk]

Why do they have to?

Is the meat they eat the product of animals killed for entertainment?

Since it is perfectly possible to eat vegetarian, eating meat is a preference not a necessity. So yes, those animals are killed for entertainment as well.

[PatrickStormborn]

One has nothing to do with the other. The showrunners aren't trying to preach a message they're telling a fictional story. It's a shooting location, nothing more.

I'm against bullfighting but Osuna, along with the sport, will be a massive attraction whether GoT films there or not and I won't villainize the showrunners for choosing it because they thought it would be a good spot to film the show.

If the message of the story is being contradicted by the reality of production, then there is a clear failure on behalf of the showrunners. They care only about profit, not about the characters or the story. This scene is supposed to be about Daenerys, and yet they're doing something which would be in complete violation of her values. It's going to look ridiculous if Dany gets offended by blood sport in a place that actually contains blood sport.

The showrunners chose it because they were offered a financial incentive to film there, which is precisely because of the positive impact the show will have on tourism. Ran has already pointed out that there are other non-active bullrings which are maintained and could have been used.

[BigBucket]

I personally don't agree with bullfighting but neither do I consider myself the arbiter on right and wrong. If the producers have chosen this bullring for the reasons suspected then I applaud them for making a professional decision. Their job is to produce the best ASOIAF tv adaptation they can on the budget they have. It is not to set the moral and ethical compass of the show viewers for them. If you like to tour GoT sets but dislike bullfighting then you may have to miss out on one, very minor set. If you go because of GoT, unaware that it is a bullring, then you probably need to take more responsibility for your own travel itinerary. Put bluntly, where other people choose to go on holiday is entirely none of your concern.

[Ran]

Tibatonik,

The complexities of managing a fully nutritional vegetarian or vegan diet, with sufficient variety to not discourage and lead to unhealthy habits (which generally means increasingly expensive supplementation with stuff like faux meats and cheeses, expenses that many families can't afford), are not for everyone. WHO has done some useful research on such topics.

It's good to know that vegans and vegetarians on the forum are surely against the production's support of a bullring actively used in bullfighting, however.

BigBucket,

Their job is to produce the best ASOIAF tv adaptation they can on the budget they have.

Their job is to produce the best adaptation on the budget they have in a professional manner. Breaking laws or destroying property would not be considered professional, right? Filming in a site used for activities banned in the U.S., U.K., (aka the home turf of 95% of the executives, producers, cast, and crew), and indeed most of the rest of the developed world, and providing promotion for that facility and those activities, doesn't strike people as a particularly professional choice. Professional is not the same as unethical.

It's like saying it'd be all right to film a major film scene at some "glamorous" foreign brothel where the producers know child prostitution is going on. Just because some countries allow child prostitutes doesn't mean people and productions from other countries should check their mores at the border.

And where people make their holiday plans are the concern of the production. Tourism dollars means that they get nice deals to film in locations, so it's really just treating this matter realistically.

[BigBucket]

It's like saying it'd be all right to film a major film scene at some "glamorous" foreign brothel where the producers know child prostitution is going on. Just because some countries allow child prostitutes doesn't mean people and productions from other countries should check their mores at the border.

I'm not going to argue points like this. Comparing bullfighting to child prostitution is beyond ridiculous.

[franko99]

I'd rather see them filming in an arena where humans were being killed for sport or whatever.

And anyone who argues that this is all fine and dandy deserves to feel some of what those bulls go through.

If someone has no regard for animal suffering, they deserve to suffer.

What a charming person you are :rolleyes:

I think you still don't get I hate bullfighting. I live 200 meters away from La Plaza de Toros of Madrid. 50,000 souls can get into there.

And, years after living here, I haven't spend a single euro supporting it.

If you are against bullfighting, don't support bullfighting. Just like that.

Except for some people it's not "just like that", they won't stop until their superior morality is held upon everyone else.

I'm not going to argue points like this. Comparing bullfighting to child prostitution is beyond ridiculous.

:agree:

FWIW, I'm against bullfights, but some people really need to get off their high horse

[PatrickStormborn]

If you're not concerned about an active bullring being used (just because it's cheaper because it will encourage tourism, for the record), then good for you. But why are you prioritising defending the showrunners, who are legitimately acting immorally by prioritising money over animal rights?

How can you defend this whilst claiming to be "against bullfights"?! What is the point of having morals if you won't even let them influence your actions? How ridiculous.

I personally don't agree with bullfighting but neither do I consider myself the arbiter on right and wrong. If the producers have chosen this bullring for the reasons suspected then I applaud them for making a professional decision. Their job is to produce the best ASOIAF tv adaptation they can on the budget they have. It is not to set the moral and ethical compass of the show viewers for them. If you like to tour GoT sets but dislike bullfighting then you may have to miss out on one, very minor set. If you go because of GoT, unaware that it is a bullring, then you probably need to take more responsibility for your own travel itinerary. Put bluntly, where other people choose to go on holiday is entirely none of your concern.

Well, they're certainly failing if that's their job. "The best ASOIAF tv adaptation" of Daznak's Pit could never possibly be filmed in an active bullring because it contradicts the whole purpose of the scene.

[WarLord]

I hate this PETA sissies.

[Javi Marcos]

Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I don't think that Osuna'd payed a lot of money to HBO to film in their bullring. HBO just wanted a bullring (because, frankly, it's the best place to film Meereen's Arena) that was not really expensive and not so far of Sevilla city, where they would film other stuff. Osuna fulfilled those 2 requirements and added a few nice spots, like the Colegiata and the Canteras.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I don't think that Osuna'd payed a lot of money to HBO to film in their bullring. HBO just wanted a bullring (because, frankly, it's the best place to film Meereen's Arena) that was not really expensive and not so far of Sevilla city, where they would film other stuff. Osuna fulfilled those 2 requirements and added a few nice spots, like the Colegiata and the Canteras.

Agree. That specific bullring is perfect for filming Meereen's pit.

Also, for what I've been told, Spain does worry a lot about their image in film making after the San Fermin fiasco in some Tom Cruise movie.

:lmao:

Thanks for making my day. That is just hilarious!

Glad you're amused because I'm personally quite shocked when I see smart people endorsing their shit and it's a bit alarming that they have an audience.

[Tibatonk]

The lack of such natural alternative contradicts the idea that eating meat is unnatural.

Sure, eating meat is natural. As is hitting each other over the head with sticks. But isn't the ability to go against what's natural what actually distinguishes the human species from animals?

If humans weren't meant to eat meat then there would be a natural alternative available and available wherever humans are located.

I very much doubt the amount of meat that's consumed in the first world every day would be naturally available either. Those animals are being artifically bred by humans for no other purpose than killing and eating them. Hardly natural if you ask me.

Simple as.

I'm afraid nothing ever is.

[BigBucket]

If you're not concerned about an active bullring being used (just because it's cheaper because it will encourage tourism, for the record), then good for you. But why are you prioritising defending the showrunners, who are legitimately acting immorally by prioritising money over animal rights?

How can you defend this whilst claiming to be "against bullfights"?! What is the point of having morals if you won't even let them influence your actions? How ridiculous.

I'm defending the producers because I strongly dislike the suggestion that, by using an active bullring, they are forcing people to watch bullfights. I dislike even more strongly the idea that they should be held accountable or responsible when/if some of their viewers do. The vast majority of viewers won't even consider what the building actually is and the tiny fraction that do still have to make a choice. If they choose to go and watch a bullfight that is on them and them alone. It's called free will.

Well, they're certainly failing if that's their job. "The best ASOIAF tv adaptation" of Daznak's Pit could never possibly be filmed in an active bullring because it contradicts the whole purpose of the scene.

Correct me if I'm wrong as my memory is hazy but it never actually specifies that Daenerys is against all blood sport per se. She is against gladiatorial games involving human beings and she certainly doesn't take kindly to someone trying to kill one of her "children". That's beside the point though anyway as the purpose of the scene has nothing to do with protesting blood-sports.

[PatrickStormborn]

I'm defending the producers because I strongly dislike the suggestion that, by using an active bullring, they are forcing people to watch bullfights. I dislike even more strongly the idea that they should be held accountable or responsible when/if some of their viewers do. The vast majority of viewers won't even consider what the building actually is and the tiny fraction that do still have to make a choice. If they choose to go and watch a bullfight that is on them and them alone. It's called free will.

Correct me if I'm wrong as my memory is hazy but it never actually specifies that Daenerys is against all blood sport per se. She is against gladiatorial games involving human beings and she certainly doesn't take kindly to someone trying to kill one of her "children". That's beside the point though anyway as the purpose of the scene has nothing to do with protesting blood-sports.

They chose this specific bullring because of financial incentives that were given precisely because it would have an impact on tourism. I wouldn't necessarily say the showrunners should be held accountable if some viewers go to the bullring, but it's fair to say they are helping an inethical industry profit.

The purpose of the scene is that Dany rejects the Meereenese based on their mindless lust for blood. It's linked to Dany's misery and struggle with the blood that's on her hands. In theory, Drogon's reappearance could take place anywhere - it could happen at her pyramid, or at her wedding, or when the Yunkai'i set up a slave market outside her walls. But it specifically happens at Daznak's Pit when Dany's distaste at the blood sport leads her to abandon the Meereenese and take off her tokar. She then jumps into the pit to save Drogon, who is being attacked.

[Beric175]

I resent the fact that simply filming there would invalidate the animal rights message of the scene. Maybe it'll make locals who go to the bullfight more aware of the cruelty that is being inflicted in that very place in real life if they see drogon in visibly great pain and agony on the show? Since we pretty much take it on face value that people will go there as a result of the show filming there apparently, I'll say that people will be disgusted as a result of seeing drogon almost getting killed in that ring. What proof do I have of this? None but then again it's the same thing for the people claiming that people will actually want to visit the ring after seeing it on the show despite knowing what it's being used for...people who have nothing against bullfighting might go but noone else would likely have an interest in going to a place where poor animals are getting killed for sport.

Also, you apparently should not watch the documentary 'Blackfish' that talks about animal cruelty in that place then because it's filmed at seaworld and so people might want to go there as a result of the filmmaker filming there and showing it to the audience...

[Ran]

None but then again it's the same thing for the people claiming that people will actually want to visit the ring after seeing it on the show despite knowing what it's being used for..

The mayor of Osuna and some spokesperson for the ring have both addressed the value that the publicity will bring. Osuna sought to be used for filming because of this. Whether their beliefs are right or wrong, it is the calculation that they make, and it's the expectation that the production raises with this foreign shooting locations in relation to its negotiations.

Also, you apparently should not watch the documentary 'Blackfish' that talks about animal cruelty in that place then because it's filmed at seaworld and so people might want to go there as a result of the filmmaker filming there and showing it to the audience...

Uhm.

A documentary about the negative sides of a tourist attraction is wildly different from a production turning a place into a tourist attraction (or at least making it substantially more of one) by dint of its filming there.