Opinions on Ser Jorah Mormont

[the storm king returns]

Jorah is my least favorite character ever, he is a slaver and Ned should have caught him and removed his head with ICE, he is weak minded and let his second wife walk all over him and make him spend money the mormonts did not have and he failed to put his wife in place like a real man should. He is a pretty shitty knight and I'm glad he is not Lord of bear island

[themengsk176]

Jorah's not a good man, nor a bad man, but simply a man. He's a flawed bundle of contradictions, but his downfall from Dany's court was that he was (very common and human flaw) unable to readily admit his mistakes. His being enslaved was a good bit of justice that he deserved, and if he's lucky, will allow him to become a better human being.

[Mr. ASoIaF]

He's one of my favourite characters. It may be because Ian Glen has done a fantastic job on the show. I mostly just like his sarcastic tone. (Not sure if that's the right word)

[sifth]

Jorah is one of of my favorite characters and it's mostly because he's just so dam complex. I love the irony of him spying for Varys, who we the readers know is a person on Dany's side and being punished for it, simply because no one in the story realizes it yet.

I often wished Jorah was our POV in Dany's camp from the start, since he's usually the best thing about Dany's chapters, IMO.

[Kingmonkey]

I find it oddly beneficial that we don't get Jorah PoVs exactly because I find him a fascinating character, but we have to view him from the outside. Generally we get character arcs in PoV characters, and it's interesting to see the way Jamie, Jon or Tyrion are changed by the events that overtake them, while non PoV characters like Robb or Tywin don't develop much. Jorah armours himself in a gruff facade and we see through the armour to his character arc through his actions and dialogue. His lack of PoV mirrors the enigma that he is as a man hiding from his own pain, and keeps his depths internalised in the narrative as they are in his character.

He's a more likeable character in the TV show and I don't doubt that TVJorah has increased my appreciation of BookJorah, but the negative sides of him such as his descents into creep factor 4 behaviour towards Dany and his history of slavery are a big part of what makes him interesting. He mixes scummery and nobility of character, he's an ex-slaver and yet slave to his own past, he's seen it all and yet is still trying to find out who he is. I might detest the man if he was real, but I think he makes a fantastic character to read about.

[NorthernXY]

i think his final report to Varys was literally a final report: that he wouldn't be reporting anymore on Dany, that he had no desire to spy on her anymore. Varys tells Tyrion in Clash that Jorah has switched sides and is devoted to Dany now.

Really the only logical thing, he stopped Varys' assassin. Unless he's reporting false intelligence, I really don't understand the reporting from Qarth being anything but him saying FU to Varys.

The real act that was the straw that broke the camel's back for Dany was two fold 1) he refused to admit he had done wrong--a common problem for the man and 2) when he says, "I have loved you" it bring to mind the betrayals from the HOTU and she thinks Jorah must be one of them. (she's wrong...but give her time. She'll figure that out...she kinda already has when Vision! Jorah is talking to her in the Sea)

[James Arryn]

Interesting, well realized character. One of GRRM's better creations; every move seems true.

My biggest question about him is: does Tyrion underestimate his intelligence, or has Jorah basically checked out so much he's only half-awake? Because there's no doubt with Dany he's got the kind of keen realpolitik mind Tyrion normally appreciates, but with Tyrion he seems an empty shell.

[BearQueen87]

Interesting, well realized character. One of GRRM's better creations; every move seems true.

My biggest question about him is: does Tyrion underestimate his intelligence, or has Jorah basically checked out so much he's only half-awake? Because there's no doubt with Dany he's got the kind of keen realpolitik mind Tyrion normally appreciates, but with Tyrion he seems an empty shell.

I think the answer to question rests on the chapter you're reading. Jorah absolutely checks out once sold into slavery. He barely speaks, voices no opinion and doesn't even try to run away nor is violent while being beaten, though it's important to note that he finally finds his voice when Tyrion asks if there is still fight in him. And then he seems to realize that Tyrion is taking them to BBP and he sort of...awakens, if how I generally view it.

I don't think he's unintelligent, but it's a different kid of intelligence. In GOT he acts as "teacher" to Dany on many occasions, explaining the Dothraki, their culture, ect. He even acts as historian for bits of Targaryen history or history of Westeros. Politically, he's somewhat savvy having been a Lord for awhile. He suggest that Dany dress Dothraki and not speak Valryian in Astapor to fool the Masters. Now, could he sit down and explain Westeros from start to present day like Tyrion? No. But he was brought up nobly and thus can advise and teach in a good enouugh capacity.

[NorthernXY]

snip

Plus it was his idea for Dany to get an army and not just sail back to Pentos and become a pawn of Illyria and Varys, but to show-up as and equal.

[BearQueen87]

Plus it was his idea for Dany to get an army and not just sail back to Pentos and become a pawn of Illyria and Varys, but to show-up as and equal.

Good example.

I think any perceived unintelligence with Jorah isn't due to his own personal mental capacity, but rather that he was born lower than, say, Tyrion Lannister. Jorah can't tell Dany the secrets of the High Houses and how to manipulate them into fighting each other for Dany's benefit. Tyrion can do that. But Jorah can tell Dany how to conduct a war, the basic rudiments of the Game, and which people to trust or not trust--for example, Jorah was very suspicious of Xaro right from the start and set out to learn all about Qartheen wedding customs, whereas Dany only learned half the story. He has good instincts because of his own pragmatic nature; he doesn't spend time wondering about the "right" or "wrong" aspect but simply "what solution will get the desired end?"

I probably wouldn't ask him to be my Hand if ever I was unfortunate enough to rule Westeros, but I would definitely keep him around as a very top trusted adviser.

[sj4iy]

I like him much more in the show than in the books, and it has absolutely everything to do with the actor looking hot.

[James Arryn]

BearQueen, I asked you this some time ago, but never hard back: have you seen Jack Taylor yet?

[BearQueen87]

BearQueen, I asked you this some time ago, but never hard back: have you seen Jack Taylor yet?

Did you? Sorry. And no, I haven't. Though I've been told by others that I need to.

[James Arryn]

Did you? Sorry. And no, I haven't. Though I've been told by others that I need to.

It's on Netflix.

[cassidyaj]

I think Jorah being sold into slavery may make him more aware of what he had done in selling slaves in the past. I also find it odd that while he was reporting to Varys, Varys was working to bring the Targs back to the throne. Varys isn't stupid and probably saw the merit in putting some one like Jorah at the disposal of Viserys (until he proved unworthy) and then Dany. The wine seller may have been a feeble attempt by Varys to carry out Robert's wish to kill Dany and he may have told Jorah about it so that she would be saved. It seems that that is the only time that Dany has been under threat from the IT since she married Drogo. The other attempt was make by the warlocks and the last attempt was uncertain if it was meant for Dany or her husband. (My guess is Dany and it was set up by her husband like the Shavepate said.)

[BearQueen87]

, Varys was working to bring the Targs back to the throne. Varys isn't stupid and probably saw the merit in putting some one like Jorah at the disposal of Viserys (until he proved unworthy) and then Dany.

I would say Varys is working to bring the Blackfyres back to the throne in guise of being Targaryen's.

The wine seller may have been a feeble attempt by Varys to carry out Robert's wish to kill Dany and he may have told Jorah about it so that she would be saved.

When Jorah tells Dany that Illyrio told him to look out something like the poisoner, I think he's telling her the truth. More or less; "Robert has an idea to kill Dany with poison, don't let it happen."

It seems that that is the only time that Dany has been under threat from the IT since she married Drogo

A lot of that has to do with the Wot5K and the fact that Westeros fell into chaos after Robert died. It wasn't that Dany was no longer a threat, it's that Westeros had bigger fish to fry.

[Aetta]

I kinda like the outsider feel of Jorah's character. He's not of a highly regarded family on the continent, he f'ed up pretty good in his younger years, he fended for himself and got in with the Dothraki, and then with Dany...but not because he was a scholar, a regarded noble, an ass kisser or a magician. Simply put, Jorah gets by with his balls to the wall, 24/7.

Of course his sins are as unsavory as the physical description of his character. And the idea of a romance between Dany and him makes me throw up in my mouth a little. But overall, he ranks closer to the top of my list than the bottom.

[oopeed]

I actually like the bear knight... He has a strange honor, but he's unwavering on it, he cares, is smart and actually put some sense into Dany's mind. She would have died long ago if not for Mormont.

The thing is that she wants to be loved by Dany too hard that is sad... If he didn't wanted it so hard, he could be this cool and savvy guy for whom Dany's panties will fall for in a second.

[Kyoshi]

To answer your questions:

1. I personally don't believe Jorah to be particularly moral, even by Westerosi standards.

2. Yes, he deserved to be exiled by Danerys.

3. He didn't more than redeem himself even before she found out about the betrayal. He wasn't even remorseful; he didn't even apologise. He only said, "you must forgive me...I have loved you." That doesn't show remorse, it shows entitlement. Also, the crime may have been ancient to him but it was still new to Dany. She had just found out about it. To her, it had just happened at that moment, it was fresh. They were in different states of dealing with the betrayal.

Furthermore, Jorah didn't see anything wrong with the raping and pillaging that was happening with the Lazhareen (sp) village. He was surprised Dany even considered stopping the rape of the women, "these are the Dothraki, Khaleesi. This is their way," he said to Dany when she wanted to stop it.

He even considered some of the boys in Dany's khalasar to a Lysene brothel. So no, he's not moral and he has NOT repented.

EDIT: I'm glad he's in the friend-zone. He's way too old and bitter for Dany. I've said this before: he's like that old, creepy guy at the club who's checking out the young, pretty girl who happens to look like his ex wives. Later that night, after that young girl rejects him, he happens to run into a prostitute who looks like the young girl and she(the prostitute) ends up on his lap.

I like Iain Glen though.

If you're interested on other posters' opinions these threads may be helpful:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113778-jorah-creepy-or-romantic/

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/106591-why-do-you-think-fans-generally-forgive-jamie-but-not-jorah/

[Malik Ambar]

I hate it when people put Jorah in petry's league.