The First Law by Joe Abercrombie Vx (spoilers through LAOK for now)

[Pilusmagnus]

Did Dragonheart and Willow really have American accents? I must have shitty ears...

[Night's_King]

Well, it was mixed. But the main protagonists had always American accents.

[Pilusmagnus]

I have a question for native English speakers. Is it not disturbing to hear such a différence of accent in movies? Are You annoyed if a medieval knight has an American accent? Or if characters have different accents in the same movie?

As a comparison, the French terrorists in Captain America 2 are ridiculous because the goons have regular metropolitan accents but their chief is supposed to be Algerian while speaking with a strong Québécois accent. It is impossible for me to take that scene seriously.

[Andrew Gilfellon]

Fantasy is not realistic unless there is a British guy in it.

[Pilusmagnus]

Yeah, but isn't British accent associated with medievalness while American accent sounds more modern? Because in French it's really the case. I would not believe any knight to speak any accent outside of RP.

[Yersinia]

It was my understanding that no one today really speaks English the way people did back then, so this is mostly just a movie convention, isn't it? But I can understand that people have certain associations and expectations when it comes to accent.

[Shryke]

I have a question for native English speakers. Is it not disturbing to hear such a différence of accent in movies? Are You annoyed if a medieval knight has an American accent? Or if characters have different accents in the same movie?

As a comparison, the French terrorists in Captain America 2 are ridiculous because the goons have regular metropolitan accents but their chief is supposed to be Algerian while speaking with a strong Québécois accent. It is impossible for me to take that scene seriously.

American vs British or something will get noticed. A strong american accent in a medieval flick would be weird (ie - southern drawl at King Arthur's table).

But for the most part, North Americans are just really fucking bad at noticing accents so it just flies by us.

[Jo498]

I am not a linguist, but of course medieval English was very different. Even Elisabethan English was. There are some recordings of either songs or texts from Shakespeare's time where it is attempted to use the pronunciation of ca. 1600.

(Often I am not sure if some things in Shakespears are supposed to rhyme and were pronounced quite differently or if it did not rhyme back then either, e.g. in one of the spells in midsummer night's dream, "eye" appears to rhyme with "remedy": I'll apply/to your eye/gentle lover/remedy. Or maybe just apply/eye and no rhyme for the rest, no idea.=

I have also read claims that some dialects of remote American rural regions are closer to the English of the 17th century, because it did not change so much there as it did in Britain. I am somewhat skeptical, there are so many different accents even in modern Britain, probably all of them are different from 400 years ago.

[Shryke]

I am not a linguist, but of course medieval English was very different. Even Elisabethan English was. There are some recordings of either songs or texts from Shakespeare's time where it is attempted to use the pronunciation of ca. 1600.

(Often I am not sure if some things in Shakespears are supposed to rhyme and were pronounced quite differently or if it did not rhyme back then either, e.g. in one of the spells in midsummer night's dream, "eye" appears to rhyme with "remedy": I'll apply/to your eye/gentle lover/remedy. Or maybe just apply/eye and no rhyme for the rest, no idea.=

I have also read claims that some dialects of remote American rural regions are closer to the English of the 17th century, because it did not change so much there as it did in Britain. I am somewhat skeptical, there are so many different accents even in modern Britain, probably all of them are different from 400 years ago.

The idea that an isolated colonies accent will change alot less is both very plausible and, afaik, common.

[Pilusmagnus]

So my point that a First Law movie should be shot with overral British accents is not so inaccurate is it?

[Andrew Gilfellon]

A mix of English, African, Spanish, and Italian. And Scottish.

On a side note, the language has become so butchered in modern times. I hear people say INNIT all the time which is short for isn't it etc, but use it wrong. I'm going to the shop innit.

[Night's_King]

A question for you native english speakers. In German, we have the words Akzent (accent) and Dialekt (dialect), which mean different things. Dialekt means that you pronounce german words different. I'm from the far north of Germany and most of us speak low german (which is an variation of the german tongue) and when we speak high german, it sounds different than Franconians.

In our definition, Akzent means that we speak a different language than our first language, and pronounce words a special way. For example, Germans speak english with a german accent, italians speak english with an italian accent, and so on.

So in short: Dialekt means that we pronounce words of our first language different, Akzent means that we pronounce words from a different language in a way that is special for our first language.

Is it the same in other countries and especially in english speaking countries (than we use the word accent wrong in this thread) or is it different?

[The BlackBear]

My general understanding of the way folks use dialect/accent is, dialect is more associated with the words you use (having spent the last few years in scotland I use the words Aye, Bairn, Nae, and other localised phrases) whilst accent is the way you pronounce words (I still have a English midlands accent (though not quite Brummie.)) But if I were to speak another language (I haven't since school) I'd do it with an English accent as well.

[Pilusmagnus]

In French, the Word accent means both things. You speak with an accent marseillais or an accent allemand. I believe it's the same in English.

[Jo498]

I would not agree with Night's King. I think in German "accent" can also be used for regional varieties, if all the words are standard high German and the differences consists in coloration, some different pronunciation and stress etc. So some people from Hamburg an other northern parts pronounce "Stein" with separated "s" and "t" sound (like in stone) whereas the rest pronounces it as "sht" Northerners will also often "close" some open vowels (Kehse for Käse), not pronounce some r's properly (Hambuach instead of Hamburg) etc.

This is still only a regional accent and usually understandable by southerners.

But a dialect can sometimes almost sound like a different language to someone not familiar with it. E.g. there is a saying from the Cologne/Rhineland region "Jück is schlimmer wie Ping" meaning that itching is worse than pain. Standard German would be: "Juckreiz ist schlimmer als Schmerz".

And (northern) Low German (Plattdeutsch) is in many respects different from southern (e.g. bavarian dialects). compare for "I": "Ich" (standard), "Ick" (nothern), "I" (southern), "Isch" (some southwestern regions where people have trouble with the soft "ch" sound). There is a whole consonant shift between northern and southern, nothern plattdütsch is often closer to English and Dutch than to southern German. Schipp - Schiff, he - er, heff - habe, Teid/Tijd - Zeit, ut - aus

etc.

[SeanF]

US and idioms accents may actually be a bit closer to the way English people in the past than modern English accents and idioms.

[SeanF]

That should have read "US accents and idioms may actually be a bit closer to the way English people spoke in the past than modern English accents and idioms" (for some reason, I can't edit from this computer.)

[sToNED_CAT]

So my point that a First Law movie should be shot with overral British accents is not so inaccurate is it?

I might be in minority, but I actually hate fantasy with British accents especially heavy ones, like in GOT series. Of course southern American english is even worse, but other American accents are fine IMO.

[mormont]

[mod] Much as the accent discussion is interesting, it's way off-topic. Let's get back to talking about The First Law, please - though you can certainly feel free to pick up the accent discussion elsewhere. [/mod]

[Pilusmagnus]

Yeah, back on topic, I think the best way to adapt Best Served Cold would actually be a video Game. A Dishonored-like one. With more targets. And many ways to assassinate them.