Who Would Win? : Robert's 7 Against The Rainbow Guard

[denny717]

Would Barristan really over power Loras and Brienne? I mean yeah he's the man, and he could rip up any of the others on the rg, but he's getting old. Even hizdahrs pit fighter was able to get a little hit on him before Selmy demolished him. I think now that Barry is out of his prime, Loras would be quicker then him and brienne would be stronger. Barry does have skill though, so it's tough to say.

I do personally think that Jaime would beat loras, but if it's lord commander vs lord commander, then that's Barry vs loras and Jaime vs brienne. Jaime would kill brienne that I'm pretty sure of.barry vs loras, Idk.

Also it all depends on fighting conditions. Loras is an excellent joust and has beaten Jaime in the lists. But if it's straight up melee, I would bet a valyrian dagger on Jaime winning.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Would Barristan really over power Loras and Brienne? I mean yeah he's the man, and he could rip up any of the others on the rg, but he's getting old. Even hizdahrs pit fighter was able to get a little hit on him before Selmy demolished him. I think now that Barry is out of his prime, Loras would be quicker then him and brienne would be stronger. Barry does have skill though, so it's tough to say.

I do personally think that Jaime would beat loras, but if it's lord commander vs lord commander, then that's Barry vs loras and Jaime vs brienne. Jaime would kill brienne that I'm pretty sure of.barry vs loras, Idk.

Also it all depends on fighting conditions. Loras is an excellent joust and has beaten Jaime in the lists. But if it's straight up melee, I would bet a valyrian dagger on Jaime winning.

No he wouldn't. Both Barristan and Jaime would get overwhelmed if they fought Loras and Brienne at the same time. They're elite fighters, but they can't fight multiple opponents at once. The KG at the Tower of Joy couldn't do it, and Aemon the Dragonknight died fighting the Toyne brothers.

I think that's where the RG has a chance. Their weaker fighters are much better than the weaker fighters of the KG. If Boros, Meryn, and Preston get killed early, the KG is going to get overwhelmed.

That all depends on how long Loras and Brienne can hold their own against Jaime and Barristan though. They certainly won't be easy opponents for Jaime and Barristan, but it's very unlikely that they'll be able to defeat them on their own.

[denny717]

I know this thread is dead, but I reread the chapter where rely is killed and had to post. Varys whisperer claim loras cut down 3 of his fellow rainbow guards. Also brienne cut down 2 or 3 men while fighting Emmon cuy, and when she was fighting jaime, yes jaime seemed to be winning, but if she killed jaime then her mission would be a failure, so she couldn't just cut him down. I think brienne is the most underrated warrior in the series, and I think that's the way grrm wants it.

[Bronn Urgandy]

Really I have no idea, team Bob has the rep, but go against youth at your own peril. Now, add Robert and Renly to the list of combatants and you've got a win for team Bob.

[Blackfish Tully]

I know this thread is dead, but I reread the chapter where rely is killed and had to post. Varys whisperer claim loras cut down 3 of his fellow rainbow guards. Also brienne cut down 2 or 3 men while fighting Emmon cuy, and when she was fighting jaime, yes jaime seemed to be winning, but if she killed jaime then her mission would be a failure, so she couldn't just cut him down. I think brienne is the most underrated warrior in the series, and I think that's the way grrm wants it.

Loras flew into a rage and killed those men when they were completely unprepared to fight. The last thing they expected was to be fighting Loras at that time. Loras killing Robar Royce is something that may come back to haunt House Tyrell , Bronze Yohn is not the type to forget or forgive about his son being killed like that and there will probably be consequences for it.

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

Really I have no idea, team Bob has the rep, but go against youth at your own peril. Now, add Robert and Renly to the list of combatants and you've got a win for team Bob.

That´s because the GOAT would swat people left and right, but he wouldn´t kill them because he would be drunk and think it´s a tourney melee

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

Boros is basically useless, Meryn is adequate, I don't see either Preston or Arys as being very far above average, that leaves Robert with 3 top level fighters, one of whom is very old.

Loras is very good, Bryce and Guyard are reckoned to be the best by a fair margin out of ~16,000 knights and men-at-arms, Brienne is very skilled and Hyle Hunt (who knows how good Brienne is) reckons that in a fair fight Robar would probably win, note that Brienne seemingly got very lucky in the melee at several points. We know that Hunt ranks Cuy poorly compared to the other Rainbow guard. Therefore:

Loras

Guyard/Robar/Bryce

Brienne

Emmon

Parmen is an unknown factor.

I think Brienne and above are all ≥Mandon Moore, with Emmon being a fair bit above Meryn and Boros.

So I have to give it to the Rainbow guard, Barristan and Jaime aren't enough to change the outcome.

[denny717]

I wouldn't say guyard robar and Bryce are better then brienne. Like I said, brienne is underrated, especially by other characters who believe her weak because they are sexist. it's without a doubt she could kill Emmon. He bombarded her just like loras did to them. When Emmon attacked her she was kneeling with renlys body in her arms. With no sword or armor, she unsheathed renlys sword just in time and defended herself against Emmon and 2 lesser soldiers.brienne reminds me of dunk when she fights. Clumsy until all hope of winning is lost, then she beats him with his own shield, or sword or whatever means available, so I see why she's not as great as the greats, but she still beat loras, which puts her ahead of the other summer knights who are unblooded in my opinion. But they are just summer knights, so it's all just speculation as to how talented they really are.

[l2 0 5 5]

Lord Bryce died in single combat to the one-eyed Philip Foote. Either Foote was extremely underrated or Caron was overrated.

I don't think Brienne would lose to Foote; therefore I have to think that Brienne is better than Caron.

[Bironic]

Lord Bryce died in single combat to the one-eyed Philip Foote. Either Foote was extremely underrated or Caron was overrated.

I don't think Brienne would lose to Foote; therefore I have to think that Brienne is better than Caron.

That was in the midst of Battle. Perhaps Bryce Caron was already wounded and Foote just finished him off. Like Lyn Corbray did with Lewyn Martell.

I think Brienne is better than Bryce, because in most circumstances they will underestimate her, a mistake they wouldn't make with Bryce or any other knight of some repute.

I think the Rainbow guard would win.

Loras, Brienne, Robar, Guyard, Bryce seem to be from top tier to very competent. While on the other hand only Jaime, Barristan, Mandon, stand out. With Arys, Preston as competent, Meryn as average and Blount as no value at all.

[l2 0 5 5]

That was in the midst of Battle. Perhaps Bryce Caron was already wounded and Foote just finished him off. Like Lyn Corbray did with Lewyn Martell.

I think Brienne is better than Bryce, because in most circumstances they will underestimate her, a mistake they wouldn't make with Bryce or any other knight of some repute.

I think the Rainbow guard would win.

Loras, Brienne, Robar, Guyard, Bryce seem to be from top tier to very competent. While on the other hand only Jaime, Barristan, Mandon, stand out. With Arys, Preston as competent, Meryn as average and Blount as no value at all.

Perhaps. But I think that Renly's RG is mainly made up of people much like Renly: Men who played at war.

[Pox Americana]

Barristan alone has more battle experience than the entire Rainbow Guard I'd wager. He and Jamie could probably take the weaker five, by themselves, with Loras and Brienne only providing marginally more resistance. Knights of Summer vs. mostly OGs. Aerys KG > Robert's KG > Renly's KG.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Perhaps. But I think that Renly's RG is mainly made up of people much like Renly: Men who played at war.

The men of the RG are no different than the youth who made up Robb Stark's personal guard. The only differences between the two is that the RG was more skilled and that they did not have the good fortune of being part of a winning army. Men like Lord Bryce Caron cannot afford to play at war. Not when he has to uphold his family's strong martial traditions as well as having to guard the most dangerous borders in all of Westeros.

[l2 0 5 5]

The men of the RG are no different than the youth who made up Robb Stark's personal guard. The only differences between the two is that the RG was more skilled and that they did not have the good fortune of being part of a winning army. Men like Lord Bryce Caron cannot afford to play at war. Not when he has to uphold his family's strong martial traditions as well as having to guard the most dangerous borders in all of Westeros.

And those youth died at the experienced hand of Jaime. He about cut his way through the whole guard.

Renly's Guard would have lost to Robert's. Yes, Boros is terrible. I have no qualms with that, but Greenfield died in a riot (so it's hard to say how good of a fighter he'd be), and Oakheart died with a death wish. He soiled his vows, and plotted against the throne, so he decided to die in an extremely rash way. I'm sure he would have faired well in a fight that he meant to win.

As for Lord Bryce, he decided to leave these precious Marches to flip flop from Baratheon to Baratheon, and ended up losing in single combat to a one-eyed knight from the Westerlands.

Strong martial traditions were not exhibited by Lord Caron.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

And those youth died at the experienced hand of Jaime. He about cut his way through the whole guard.

Renly's Guard would have lost to Robert's. Yes, Boros is terrible. I have no qualms with that, but Greenfield died in a riot (so it's hard to say how good of a fighter he'd be), and Oakheart died with a death wish. He soiled his vows, and plotted against the throne, so he decided to die in an extremely rash way. I'm sure he would have faired well in a fight that he meant to win.

As for Lord Bryce, he decided to leave these precious Marches to flip flop from Baratheon to Baratheon, and ended up losing in single combat to a one-eyed knight from the Westerlands.

Strong martial traditions were not exhibited by Lord Caron.

Yet the majority of Robb's guard survived Whispering Wood and gained experience because of that.

Not only is Boros terrible, but Meryn and Greenfield are nothing special. Why excuse Preston for his death on the mob, but criticize Guyard and Bryce for dying in the midst of battle? Not only that, but Barristan has clearly regressed. If Aemon the Dragonknight was killed fighting two men at once, Jaime likely can't do any better.

So because he answered the call of his liege lords, owed his liege and died after fighting for hours in battle, he failed to uphold his family traditions? That makes no sense. You do realize that there are many things that decide the outcome of battle right? It is not as simple as the better man will always win. Barristan says this himself.

[l2 0 5 5]

Yet the majority of Robb's guard survived Whispering Wood and gained experience because of that.

Not only is Boros terrible, but Meryn and Greenfield are nothing special. Why excuse Preston for his death on the mob, but criticize Guyard and Bryce for dying in the midst of battle? Not only that, but Barristan has clearly regressed. If Aemon the Dragonknight was killed fighting two men at once, Jaime likely can't do any better.

So because he answered the call of his liege lords, owed his liege and died after fighting for hours in battle, he failed to uphold his family traditions? That makes no sense. You do realize that there are many things that decide the outcome of battle right? It is not as simple as the better man will always win. Barristan says this himself.

Robb had a larger personal guard so naturally more members survived. Not to mention they won that battle so I can't imagine how many would have perished if they were on the losing side.

I criticize Bryce for losing in battle because it was single combat, which is commonly viewed as one mans' skill versus another. Bryce lost to a man of no repute, so yes I think it's fair to criticize that. If Greenfield would have died in battle with his sword and shield drawn, and not by a mob that ambushed the whole Guard, then I would say he's not that good, but that's not the case. Hard to say how good he was. And I never criticized Morigen. If you'd care to look on the first page, you'd notice that I said that he died to Garlan, and there's no shame in that. I was merely pointing out a fact.

Jaime not doing any better than a knight from over a century ago in a 2V1 is conjecture to the highest degree so I'd rather not use examples that are irrelevant.

As for Bryce answering the summon of his liege lord, I have no issue with that, obviously. He failed to uphold his families tradition by taking a position in the pretentious RG without having an heir to hold Nightsong besides his bastard brother. I don't think he gave a damn about his seat, and that's why he coughed it up for an orange cloak without a second thought.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

As long as Robert has Selmy and Jaime he wins hands down.

[Sub_Zero94]

like carving a cake

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

Think Tower of Joy; Dayne is one of the best ever, Gerold Hightower is very good as is Oswell (presumably), yet seven fighters; one of whom is only a squire and one of whom is a Crannogmen, overwhelm them. Likewise Barristan is now old, no great things are suggested about Arys and Preston, Boros is poor, Meryn is average.

So Gerold Hightower=Barristan

Arthur Dayne=Jaime

Oswell Whent=Mandon

The other four make up the numbers.

Meanwhile Renly's 7 are some of the finest swords of the Reach and Stormlands, Bryce, Guyard and Robar are regarded very highly as swordsmen, Loras is excellent and Brienne is also very good, Parmen and Emmon are presumably a fair bit above average.

So the top 3 for Robert are pulling most of the weight, which means their opponents only have to hold for a minute until Meryn and/or Boros are dead or incapacitated, then suddenly they are outnumbered.

If group tactics comes into it the KG might have the upper hand with Barristan as LC, but I can't se that playing too big of a factor.

[denny717]

I'm pretty sure preston was last seen headed back towards the mob to help the high septon. By then he should have had his sword out ready for fighting. The truth is Barristan says it himself. No knight is amazing every day of his life, everyone has bad days. Just because someone falls after 3 hours of battle, doesn't mean they suck. What if he just fought 3 people at the same time? Was his horse fed that morning? Was his armor put on correctly?there's a thousand different factors so who really knows? My point is who really knows how skilled Emmon and guyard and robar are? It's impossible to say judging a single scenerio.