Dimples Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 It was directed at his response. To agree to disagree and not argue over suppositions. It doesn't make sense that YOU would allow your fragile ego to convince you that every comment someone makes involves something you said. Again the comment I made was directed at HIM, concerning HIS comment. If I wanted to direct something at YOU I would have directed it at YOU, like I've been doing.To be clear, on the slim chance I am speaking to two separate people....It was Satire. A tounge in cheek stab at pointing out how silly it is to bicker over the Lannisters of Lannisport seeing as how we know very little about them. It wasn't directed at YOU but at your comment on agreeing to disagree. Where you got the idea that I was "attacking" you is unclear. If you go read the comment again, you can clearly tell it's in jest.Someone's a bit touchy. But don't think that I'm replying to YOU just because I quoted YOU, and only YOU. It's quite obvious that my post isn't about YOU at all, and it would be quite egotistical of YOU to think that it is. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimples Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 To be clear, on the slim chance I am speaking to two separate people....It was Satire. A tounge in cheek stab at pointing out how silly it is to bicker over the Lannisters of Lannisport seeing as how we know very little about them. It wasn't directed at YOU but at your comment on agreeing to disagree. Where you got the idea that I was "attacking" you is unclear. If you go read the comment again, you can clearly tell it's in jest.Maybe comedy is not your strong point. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Someone's a bit touchy. But don't think that I'm replying to YOU just because I quoted YOU, and only YOU. It's quite obvious that my post isn't about YOU at all, and it would be quite egotistical of YOU to think that it is. ;) I still think YOU and LittleDragon are the same person. And as for the rest of your ramble...I'm touchy! You took a harmless comment meant to be humorous (granted maybe not, but I never claimed to be Shecky Green) and went off on a tangent about how I'm attacking your comment (or whatever you think I did to injure your ego. I still don't know what your gripe was honestly). And now you're calling ME touchy! I get your alter ego Littledragonthatcould's gripe, he thought I directed my comment at him. That makes sense. I'm not sure what YOUR problem is. But here you are AGAIN, deflecting, calling me touchy for an encounter YOU started by being overly sensitive. Let's put it this way. How about we agree to disagree and part ways before I DO get touchy. And so there is no confusion this time YES it's directed at YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I still think YOU and LittleDragon are the same person. Are you that arrogant that faced with more than one person who you don't agree with you have to imagine they are the same person? That is a little crazy. How about we agree to disagree and part ways before I DO get touchy. More unintentional comedy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 What had Dany and her unborn child done to him? He wanted them all dead. After he saw the dead bodies of Rhaegars children: Robert is just as capable of wanting to wipe out entire Houses. As are the Starks as they did at least once, with the Greystarks. Sure, Robert is just as capable. He really hated the Targaryens. But he showed mercy just as many times. How many times did Tywin show mercy to anyone? Robert turned the Targaryens, all of them, into monsters, due to his hatred of Rhaegar and Aerys, for what they did. Other then that, he was very magnanimous. By the way, when did this turn into Tywin vs Robert? I thought this was about Tywin vs Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimples Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I still think YOU and LittleDragon are the same person. And as for the rest of your ramble...I'm touchy! You took a harmless comment meant to be humorous (granted maybe not, but I never claimed to be Shecky Green) and went off on a tangent about how I'm attacking your comment (or whatever you think I did to injure your ego. I still don't know what your gripe was honestly). And now you're calling ME touchy! I get your alter ego Littledragonthatcould's gripe, he thought I directed my comment at him. That makes sense. I'm not sure what YOUR problem is. But here you are AGAIN, deflecting, calling me touchy for an encounter YOU started by being overly sensitive. Let's put it this way. How about we agree to disagree and part ways before I DO get touchy. And so there is no confusion this time YES it's directed at YOU. I did? I said this: But it was directed at my comment...which still doesn't make any sense. I was being innocently confused, and then you started flinging accusations. It's pretty clear who's being touchy here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I did? I said this: I was being innocently confused, and then you started flinging accusations. It's pretty clear who's being touchy here.Still? Really? Let's be adults and get back on topic shall we. This is getting silly and honestly I stopped reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimples Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Still?Really?Let's be adults and get back on topic shall we. This is getting silly and honestly I stopped reading.And you accused me of deflecting? Very well, I accept your surrender. Let's return to the topic now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Tywin's outright refusal to acknowledge the fact that he didn't in fact know everything, his ability to find slights in everything, his insistence on being crowned the winner, and his stubborn refusal to let things go is what doomed his house. He didn't realize how silly and petty he looked when he refused to take the draw by piling on. Having Elia raped, butchering her children, the Red Wedding slaughter. All of this doomed him to ultimately fail and set his children up to lose. Especially considering his ultimate goal wasn't teaching them but being crowned the winner. He got his crown but what happened next? His title died with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Tywin's downfall was his lack of ability, and desire, to instill love in anyone. He feared disrespect and loss of power so much he embraced fear and ruthlessness as a tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hand to King Davos Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Tywin looks better at first, but Ned did a better job.The Starks were prepared for the wrong kind of war at the start of the series, and got destroyed for it. Now they are poised to make a comeback.The Lannisters were ready for the Wot5K and all the politics that involved, but there was no one ready when Tywin died. Now they are in deep s***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimples Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 The Lannisters were ready for the Wot5K and all the politics that involved, but there was no one ready when Tywin died. Now they are in deep s***. Exactly. Everything was fine when Tywin was around, but he left shoes too big to fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Lannister_ Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Tywin was fantastic for his family, he's the only thing that kept them from going down the toilet. That's evident by how shitty and chaotic the Lannister family has become following his death. He certainly wasn't the better father, but that's not the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 He thought Rhaegar kidnapped, raped, and led to the death of his lady love. All the Reynes and Tarbecks did is revolt. Like what they Greyjoys did. Not saying that Robert couldn't wipe out his enemies, only that in most cases he didn't, and in the case of the Reynes and Tarbecks, I feel he wouldn't have. Have you read the History of the Westerlands reading from the WoIaF? The Reynes and Tarbecks definitely overstepped their bounds. Tywin had as much grounds for war against them as Robert did the Targaryens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainGhost Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 The main reason House Stark was in trouble once Ned died is because he was the last remaining adult Stark (Catelyn doesn't count because she's a Tully and also a woman). That's hardly Ned's fault. Ned groomed his heir for rule and did it well. We see that Robb had the potential to be a great leader - his main handicap was his age, which couldn't be helped, and the fact that he had no other adult Stark to help him, which is how Winterfell fell. Ironically, had he been less capable he would have been less of a threat and many have lived. Then after Robb died the rest were too young to do anything. Tywin's children however are all adults, so why is House Lannister in trouble? Because Tywin's heir gave up his claim. If Tywin had done a better job at grooming Jaime (or monitoring his and Cersei's relationship), he may never have joined the KG. Tywin then refused to accept this, refused to groom Tyrion or even acknowledge him as heir. So the situation we have is Cersei as ruling lady when she is completely incapable and Tyrion plotting against the rest of the family to gain his birthright. If there weren't such an abundance of Lannisters, Casterly Rock could well have fallen by now. Lots of relatives is luck on Tywin's part, not competence. Of course, you could argue that Ned sheltered his children too much, whereas Tywin prepared his children for the real world. But you could also argue that Ned's children were children and children should be sheltered, and that Tywin mentally scarred his children and/or made them into monsters/semi-monsters. Ultimately, House Stark is now a House entirely of children, whereas House Lannister still has plenty of adults left. Yet the Lannisters are clearly on the way down and the Starks I suspect are on the way up (from an admittedly low position). That is entirely to Ned's credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Have you read the History of the Westerlands reading from the WoIaF? The Reynes and Tarbecks definitely overstepped their bounds. Tywin had as much grounds for war against them as Robert did the Targaryens. I never said they didn't. Please read my posts. In the case of the Greyjoy rebellion, and in the case of the rebellion of the REynes and Tarbecks, they both had cause. But Robert actually spared the lives of the Greyjoys that were not killed in battle. HE SHOWED A CAPACITY FOR MERCY. Tywin has never shown that capacity, and I believe he never would have. He exterminates his enemies. A Lannister always pays their debts. You're not following the thread, because you apparently don't even understand why I made the point above concerning Robert. It all goes back to a counter-argument against the claim that Ned had disloyal bannermen, and Tywin didn't, so Tywin was more loved by his bannermen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 You're not following the thread, because you apparently don't even understand why I made the point above concerning Robert. It all goes back to a counter-argument against the claim that Ned had disloyal bannermen, and Tywin didn't, so Tywin was more loved by his bannermen. Not quite. Someone stated: Ned's family is in ruins, yet his children and banner men still love him. Can't say the same for Tywin.To which I disagreed as we have seen no Westerlords in the series have anywhere near the same negative feelings towards Tywin that the likes of the Roose Bolton and Lady Dustin have towards Ned. We see Bolton and Karstarks conspire to kill Robb Stark. Now it may well be that the people of the West despise the Lannisters, but there is no evidence in the books to say that they do. The same can't be said of the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenKing23 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 People are freezing and dying in the North all for the memory of Ned. Who marches to Cersei's aid? Where are the West bannermen as she is being held captive and marched through the streets naked? Ned still inspired loyalty way after his death, I haven't seen the same for Tywin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Yeah. Only the Northmen get to strip Catlyn Stark naked and parade her around. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Not quite. Someone stated: To which I disagreed as we have seen no Westerlords in the series have anywhere near the same negative feelings towards Tywin that the likes of the Roose Bolton and Lady Dustin have towards Ned. We see Bolton and Karstarks conspire to kill Robb Stark. To which I responded that Tywin Lannister KILLED all the bannermen he had that could have betrayed him. The rest respect him enough or fear him enough to never try to betray him. But now that he's dead, you don't see very many people wanting to help his children in "his memory". So who was better for their family? The guy who was so good that AFTER he's dead, people are willing to die for his kids. Or the guy who, now that he is dead, nobody is willing to do squat for his kids unless it is for their own benefit? Who has a better reputation in Dorne? In the Vale? The only reason the Tyrells are allied to the Lannisters is the greed and short-sightedness of Mace Tyrell, whom even his mother seems to have no respect for. The only reason the Freys are allied to the Lannisters is because Walder has no moral compass at all. The Lannisters are doomed. The Starks have every long term advantage, because Ned wasn't a prick like Tywin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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