thelittledragonthatcould Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 The Lannisport Lannisters don't seem to hold land, unlike the Karstarks. They probably control part of Lannisport. We know that two Houses share control of Gulltown, the Graftons and the Shetts, so I'd guess that more than one House could control Lannisport. After Tywins death we hear how Cersei appoints Damon Lannister as Castellan but she never make an appointment for Lannisport and we continually hear the distinction of Lannisters from Casterly Rock. They seem to be a Lordly House rather than knightly or lower. The reason why we have not seen them part of the army yet is, like the Farmans of Fair Isle, they have stayed back and been part of the defense of the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SacredOrderOfGreenMen Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Clearly the intelligence they had suggested that it was a bigger threat than it actually was. Cassel gathered his 600 from Winterfell and the holdfasts in the Winterfell area, leaving them exposed, the Tallharts did the same taking all their available men to Winterfell thus allowing a few Ironborn to take them. The intelligence was either very poor in Winterfell or the North presumed that these small numbers were going to be joined up by the thousands of Ironborn elsewhere in the country.Either way, it was clearly a failure to accurately assess the threat and they sent in, in light of what someone could reasonably know, a ridiculous number of men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avalatis Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Tywin's motivations were for the "House of Lannister" and not the individuals who made up the House of Lannister. So of course everything up until his death put the House in the best possible position he could manage. But as others have pointed out since he didn't focus on the individuals the moment he died set his family and and House on a crash course to destruction. His own son murdered him due to his own actions. Not a very good legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Tywin's motivations were for the "House of Lannister" and not the individuals who made up the House of Lannister. That's the series only. In the books his motivations have always been about his personal gain in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimples Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 They probably control part of Lannisport. We know that two Houses share control of Gulltown, the Graftons and the Shetts, so I'd guess that more than one House could control Lannisport. After Tywins death we hear how Cersei appoints Damon Lannister as Castellan but she never make an appointment for Lannisport and we continually hear the distinction of Lannisters from Casterly Rock. They seem to be a Lordly House rather than knightly or lower. The reason why we have not seen them part of the army yet is, like the Farmans of Fair Isle, they have stayed back and been part of the defense of the West. I would think that the Lord of Casterly Rock, being the Shield of Lannisport, is the sole ruler of Lannisport. The Lannisport Lannisters seem to be like the Gulltown Arryns, merely living in the city, not controlling it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I would think that the Lord of Casterly Rock, being the Shield of Lannisport, is the sole ruler of Lannisport. The Lannisport Lannisters seem to be like the Gulltown Arryns, merely living in the city, not controlling it. Casterly Rock is said to be be shield of Lannisport, it may be in reference to that or it may just be a personal title for Tywin like his 'Savior of the City'(Kings Landing) is and not a hereditary title. From the Westerland readings we know that Casterly Rock was to big for the Lannisters and some went to live in a nearby Village that eventually grew into a town then the second biggest city in Westeros (pre Targs). I guess those are the Lannisport Lannisters and to have lasted this long must mean they have a degree of authority and power, even if its not full control of the City. Hopefully this will be resolved in the History book one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimples Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Casterly Rock is said to be be shield of Lannisport, it may be in reference to that or it may just be a personal title for Tywin like his 'Savior of the City'(Kings Landing) is and not a hereditary title. From the Westerland readings we know that Casterly Rock was to big for the Lannisters and some went to live in a nearby Village that eventually grew into a town then the second biggest city in Westeros (pre Targs). I guess those are the Lannisport Lannisters and to have lasted this long must mean they have a degree of authority and power, even if its not full control of the City. Hopefully this will be resolved in the History book one way or the other. In the absence of evidence, let's just agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 In the absence of evidence, let's just agree to disagree. NO. Come on! It's much easier to base an entire argument on statements like "probably" and "it stands to reason". Most of our points are accused of being peppered and influenced by our Stark bias but Lannister love seems to be all but ignored. Tywin was incredibly effective, incredibly. But he was cruel and sneaky. Less a genius than he gets credit for being. Scaring people into submission works but at the end of the day it doesn't make you a master politician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Roose tells Cat. "How many men have you brought my son?" she asked Roose Bolton pointedly.His queer colorless eyes studied her face a moment before he answered. "Some five hundred horse and three thousand foot, my lady. Dreadfort men, in chief, and some from Karhold. With the loyalty of the Karstarks so doubtful now, I thought it best to keep them close. It's pretty clear which side they are on. No it isn't. Those Karstarks weren't serving Arnolf, but Harrion. Arnolf's army was at Karhold. Evidently not as they did not retake Winterfell. So just because Winterfell, Storms End and Riverrun have been taken then so wil the Eyrie, Casterly Rock, Highgarden and Sunspear? Except that wasn't a result of Rodrik being unable to defeat Ironborn, but Ramsay Bolton, whom he had believed to be dead. Yes, I think that seems to be the trend. The lords of the Great Houses during RR are dying like flies, and the keeps of the Great Houses are being taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 NO. Come on! It's much easier to base an entire argument on statements like "probably" and "it stands to reason". Most of our points are accused of being peppered and influenced by our Stark bias but Lannister love seems to be all but ignored. Tywin was incredibly effective, incredibly. But he was cruel and sneaky. Less a genius than he gets credit for being. Scaring people into submission works but at the end of the day it doesn't make you a master politician. How is debating whether the Lannisters of Lannisport are a noble House showing 'Lannister love'? Either they do or don't but it has no impact on the Lannisters of Casterly Rock or Tywin for that matter. What a bizarre subject to rant about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 No it isn't. Those Karstarks weren't serving Arnolf, but Harrion. Arnolf's army was at Karhold. You stated that no Karstarks were part of the Red Wedding, we are told that part of Boltons army at the Twins was Karstark men. Karstark men took part in the Red Wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 He is now. “Dressing her in grey and white serves no good if the girl is left to sob. The Freys may not care, but the northmen … they fear the Dreadfort, but they love the Starks.” In return we swore that we should always be their men. STARK men! Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is STARK Winter is almost upon us, boy. And winter is death. I would sooner my men die fighting for the Ned’s little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze upon their cheeks. No one sings songs of men who die like that. As for me, I am old. This will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when my axe bites deep into a Bolton skull. I want to lick it off my lips and die with the taste of it on my tongue. "Fear is what keeps a man alive in this world of treachery and deceit. Even here in Barrowton the crows are circling, waiting to feast upon our flesh. The Cerwyns and the Tallharts are not to be relied on, my fat friend Lord Wyman plots betrayal, and Whoresbane...the Umbers may seem simple but they are not without a certain low cunning. Ramsay should fear them all, as I do. “but the rest, yes. Old Whoresbane is only here because the Freys hold the Greatjon captive. And do you imagine the Hornwood men have forgotten the Bastard’s last marriage, and how his lady wife was left to starve, chewing her own fingers? What do you think passes through their heads when they hear the new bride weeping? Valiant Ned’s precious little girl.” The north remembers, Lord Davοs. The north remembers, and the mummer's farce is almost done. Sure you are completely right. @OP; For the family it has to be Tywin. His kids hated him so much that one of them killed him. You can't go lower than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 You stated that no Karstarks were part of the Red Wedding, we are told that part of Boltons army at the Twins was Karstark men. Karstark men took part in the Red Wedding. Except where is it mentioned they took part in Roose's lot? They were likely not in contact with Arnolf Karstark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I wonder how everything would have turned out if Joanna Lannister had lived and Catelyn had died in childbirth . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 How is debating whether the Lannisters of Lannisport are a noble House showing 'Lannister love'? Either they do or don't but it has no impact on the Lannisters of Casterly Rock or Tywin for that matter. What a bizarre subject to rant about.Feeling guilty? That wasn't directed at YOU or YOUR comments. It was just an observation on the double standard directed at Stark fans but ignored when it comes to Lannister fans. See that's why it wasn't linked to YOUR comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimples Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Feeling guilty? That wasn't directed at YOU or YOUR comments. It was just an observation on the double standard directed at Stark fans but ignored when it comes to Lannister fans. See that's why it wasn't linked to YOUR comment. But it was directed at my comment...which still doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I wonder how everything would have turned out if Joanna Lannister had lived and Catelyn had died in childbirth . Depends. After giving birth to Robb? Ned would have remarried, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Depends. After giving birth to Robb? Ned would have remarried, I suppose. Ned Stark could marry Lady Dustin, that would be a happy union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aje12 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Ned Stark could marry Lady Dustin, that would be a happy union. Ned feels enough bitterness about Brandon having been 'meant' for Catelyn. Imagine knowing the brother you are bitter towards bedded your wife before you. Also Barbrey seems the sort of wild lass you would always yearn for Brandon over Ned's stoic ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanos Targaryen Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 The seed is strong. The Starks are scattered, alone, afraid, but they are strong because they were raised and grown the right way. The Lannisters are alone, apart from each other, hating each other and mired in bitterness because of the poison Tywin fed them when they were young. Ned was by far superior to Tywin. Not a good politician or courtier but a much better gardener by the standards of every criteria that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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