Julia Martell Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Edric's relationship to Lord Beric (and the now defunct betrothal of Beric with Lady Allyria) might also be significant in terms of how things develop in the marches; didn't House Dondarrion ally with House Caron to defeat one of the past Vulture Kings? It's possible that Edric is traveling with Anguy, also from the marches, since Anguy was also notably absent from our last view of LS's BwB. You all definitely have me convinced that we're going to see a new Vulture King in the marches. Who else might be able to use such an uprising to his or her benefit? Darkstar better not hurt that little boy. That's all I'm saying. The evidence suggests that the Dornish have used these Vulture King uprisings to their own befit before. And probably will again. It might make a good ethical dilemma for Arianne to choose to let Darkstar be free to go nuts in the Stormlands. And I can just imagine how hilarious her denials to the King of the Month would be. If Tyene's mother was one of such girls who had been raised by the Faith because her own family didn't want her (thus, she personally was given no choice on the matter), it would explain why she might have been supportive about Oberyn taking Tyene. That would effectively prevent Tyene from a life with the Faith, unless Tyene choose for a life as a Septa. And such choices are usually best made at a somewhat later age, not when you are a two or three year old child, for example. Yeah, usually. :wideeyed: I just can't get over how offensive I find the whole "Oh, you've just almost been killed by a disfiguring disease? Well you're no longer of use to me, off to the Silent Sisters with you." thing. It's a very close contest between that and the whole "Oh, you've just been raped, off to the Silent Sisters with you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Yeah, usually. :wideeyed: I just can't get over how offensive I find the whole "Oh, you've just almost been killed by a disfiguring disease? Well you're no longer of use to me, off to the Silent Sisters with you." thing. It's a very close contest between that and the whole "Oh, you've just been raped, off to the Silent Sisters with you." It comes a bit across as "well, you are no longer going to be of use of me in the future, so I'm dumping you somewhere else." I mean, when a daughter gets a disfigurement, that will make her unattractive for marriage, in cases where (unlike Shireen for example) the is nothing specific to gain. How to say this best.... Ehm. A petty lord, who whishes to use his daughters to create alliances, as to, in the future, have an easier time climbing the social ladder. A pretty girl is better for that, as she will be accepted as a match sooner, than a girl whose face got burned, or who is disfigured by a disease, or whose reputation has been destroyed due to sexual activities (no matter is they were consentual, or not, aka rape). It is a horrible thing, and completely unfair to the girls.. But when they lose their alliance-making values, they basically are viewed as useless mouths that need to be fed. In other words, they become like the fourth, fifth or sixth son (or something like that). The higherborn a lord is, the more children he can have without feeling the need to send a few away, be it to the Faith, or some other order (NW, etc.). The "lower" lords can afford less.. It's horrible and offensive, but it does seem to be that was in the asoiaf-universe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 You all definitely have me convinced that we're going to see a new Vulture King in the marches. Who else might be able to use such an uprising to his or her benefit?Oooh, a non-Darkstar VK? That's more unlikely, but you could make a not completely asinine argument for Anders Yronwood, Franklyn Fowler, maybe Harmen Uller, or even Obara, the Vulture Queen. But I wouldn't hold my breath.As for Tyene's mom, she may have been really into the chastity vow until she met Oberyn ;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrafntýr Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Darkstar better not hurt that little boy. That's all I'm saying. The evidence suggests that the Dornish have used these Vulture King uprisings to their own befit before. And probably will again. It might make a good ethical dilemma for Arianne to choose to let Darkstar be free to go nuts in the Stormlands. And I can just imagine how hilarious her denials to the King of the Month would be. Well, if Aegon has set himself up at Storm's End, I suppose one could see a Vulture King as either 1) distracting marcher lords who might otherwise be fighting against Aegon, thereby preventing them from decimating Aegon's forces/attention or 2) hindering Aegon's efforts to muster Stormlands forces against his next target (IT, Oldtown, whatever) by distracting marcher lords who might otherwise be fighting for Aegon . And yeah, if Dorkstar attacks another likeable young noble...but I've got the sigil of House Blackmont branded on the brain these days, and it does suggest predation on the young! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrafntýr Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Oooh, a non-Darkstar VK? That's more unlikely, but you could make a not completely asinine argument for Anders Yronwood, Franklyn Fowler, maybe Harmen Uller, or even Obara, the Vulture Queen. But I wouldn't hold my breath. Oops, sorry if that wasn't clear. I didn't mean to suggest a non-Darkstar VK, I was asking who, besides Darkstar, might benefit from Darkstar rising up as Vulture King. But it would be hysterical if there were a War of the Five Vulture Kings or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Oops, sorry if that wasn't clear. I didn't mean to suggest a non-Darkstar VK, I was asking who, besides Darkstar, might benefit from Darkstar rising up as Vulture King. But it would be hysterical if there were a War of the Five Vulture Kings or something. I'd be so down for that. :commie: Yeah, Dorne might benefit from an "extremist" (especially with a separatist agenda) drawing the attention of the Stormlords/Reach Lord, which gives Sunspear more breathing room in general. Doran or Arianne could maybe be in a position to secretly help fund the VK, and while all eyes are there, continue their own plotting. Kind of like how Oberyn running around KL rabble-rousing like a nutcase helped Quentyn slip out of Dorne (relatively) unnoticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dornish Vinegar Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 ^^ Yeah I was gonna say, not to mention that a Vulture King with covert support from Sunspear would be like Doran and Oberyn's good cop/bad cop routine writ large, taken to an extreme end. I have a hard time imagining Doran or Arianne being open enough to Darkstar after the shit he pulled with Myrcella for that to happen, but the necessities of war can make strange bedfellows indeed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 ^^ Yeah I was gonna say, not to mention that a Vulture King with covert support from Sunspear would be like Doran and Oberyn's good cop/bad cop routine writ large, taken to an extreme end. I have a hard time imagining Doran or Arianne being open enough to Darkstar after the shit he pulled with Myrcella for that to happen, but the necessities of war can make strange bedfellows indeed... Oh right, they were pretty (appropriately) disgusted with Gerold for that. I doubt they'd "support" him in any way, but I could see the Dornish troops being conveniently late to the Vulture Hunt. And that's a nice bit of history repeating itself too, recalling the days of Lewyn and his slow troop movements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 He he... Vulture Hunt.... I have a feeling that Edric Dayne will come into it somewhere and somehow, and something related to Darkstar seems pretty likely, but I have really no idea. Maybe he can use some of his guerrilla warfare experience to help his cousin out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Yeah, I get that feeling too! That's why I asked about him last night (that and to distract from a bad date).We may not get a new Sword of the Morning, but I feel like House Dayne of Starfall is going to have a major role to play. But that could just be my own projecting, given all the ToJ "mystery" that seems innately tied to Starfall, and we've gotta get some clarity there, I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Yeah, I get that feeling too! That's why I asked about him last night (that and to distract from a bad date).We may not get a new Sword of the Morning, but I feel like House Dayne of Starfall is going to have a major role to play. But that could just be my own projecting, given all the ToJ "mystery" that seems innately tied to Starfall, and we've gotta get some clarity there, I hope. I wonder if they were going to support Rhaegar in removing Aerys. I would say Dayne and Whent were. There are still Daynes around and House Whent is suspiciously extinct. I think at least the Daynes could follow Rhaegar's son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baela of Pentos Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I wonder if they were going to support Rhaegar in removing Aerys. I would say Dayne and Whent were. There are still Daynes around and House Whent is suspiciously extinct. I think at least the Daynes could follow Rhaegar's sonI'd love to see that but all the Daynes left had no personal tie to Rhaegar to go all in for now (little Ned seems to be operating under N+W=J). Or do some of them know more than they let on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 It comes a bit across as "well, you are no longer going to be of use of me in the future, so I'm dumping you somewhere else." I mean, when a daughter gets a disfigurement, that will make her unattractive for marriage, in cases where (unlike Shireen for example) the is nothing specific to gain. How to say this best.... Ehm. A petty lord, who whishes to use his daughters to create alliances, as to, in the future, have an easier time climbing the social ladder. A pretty girl is better for that, as she will be accepted as a match sooner, than a girl whose face got burned, or who is disfigured by a disease, or whose reputation has been destroyed due to sexual activities (no matter is they were consentual, or not, aka rape). It is a horrible thing, and completely unfair to the girls.. But when they lose their alliance-making values, they basically are viewed as useless mouths that need to be fed. In other words, they become like the fourth, fifth or sixth son (or something like that). The higherborn a lord is, the more children he can have without feeling the need to send a few away, be it to the Faith, or some other order (NW, etc.). The "lower" lords can afford less.. It's horrible and offensive, but it does seem to be that was in the asoiaf-universe...We don't have a clear idea how rich and powerful the Faith is. If Septs and Mother Houses own rich lands, that would be one motivation for a lord to have his younger sons and daughters inducted into it. Another would be to have people who prayed for him. For some younger sons and daughters, become a Septon or Septa may be a good career move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 I wonder if they were going to support Rhaegar in removing Aerys. I would say Dayne and Whent were. There are still Daynes around and House Whent is suspiciously extinct. I think at least the Daynes could follow Rhaegar's son I feel like supporting Rhaegar over Aerys would have been fairly popular in general, but absolutely his bestie would be on-board. Both Aegon and House Dayne make me very worried for Dornish unity. Though I think textually Anders and Doran are coo-day-la, there's the whole family grudge issue. Combine that with House Dayne having its own agenda (even without a King Darkstar), and the DWD2.0 may cause a major rift in our happy kingdom. I've just always felt like there's a lot more to the Daynes than meets the eye :dunno: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Edric Dayne is very, very, very impressed by both the Starks via Ned and Arya and the true heir of Robert thanks to to Beric Dondarrion. If only somebody told him the truth about Cersei's bastards... Personally I see him pushing Dorne towards the North&Stannis, maybe even going so far as to swear fealty straight in the middle of Dorne and the Reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 Dornish geography quiz! http://www.sporcle.com/games/chebyshov/match-dornish-houses-to-location Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis's Lawyer Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Everything right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Everything right. Well, you're the map guy... I mixed up Sand Stone and Salt Shore, somehow, and I apparently know nothing about the Prince's Pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I FAILED EVERYTHING BUT SUNSPEAR!!! <O> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis's Lawyer Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 What's very interesting is that the Yronwoods are stronger than the Fowlers, but just north of the border, the Carons are stronger than the Dondarrions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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