Course of action for humanity, and the adults of tomorrow.

[ab aeterno]

Modern day slavery still exists because people like us place too much value in the wrong items, like shoes clothes and iphones. Just look at the rate of suicide for apple factory workers in china. We provide the demand for these scumbags to place children and young adults in factories where they are underpaid and overworked, commonly driven to suicide.

So you think being vain and materialistic is still ok?

You make a good point! If those factory workers in China were less vain and materialistic, they would learn to take contentment and pleasure from all the good things they have - (relatively) breathable air, a liveable amount of food, a warm roof over their heads, - rather than being so obsessed with material wealth that they commit suicide.

Or, to put it more reasonably, everything is relative. Anyone who wants a comfortable standard of living wants a certain amount of materialism, and a certain amount of vanity is necessary for human health. The more important measure is moderation, neither too much nor too little. Then how much is too much? Those workers in China are likely materially far better off than people have been for millennia, and compared to many people throughout history - and even in the world today - their living standards would likely be considered not only comfortable but luxurious. Similarly, many of the poorest in Europe and the US live in what would probably be considered luxury to people who are truly materially poor. Does that mean we should condemn the poor here for being materialistic? What about the middle classes?

Arguably, without materialism, there would be little motivation for us to do anything. If we were content with the basics we needed, who would try to earn more? Or produce more? Who would build the computers we don't need? Or maintain the unnecessary internet? Or the electricity?

The question isn't whether it's okay to be materialistic (and a little vain, sometimes,) the question is how much.

[Hans Gruber]

This.

But really though, I used to dwell on this sort of shit a lot. Too much. To the point where I don't even know where to start.

Materialism, Vanity, downfalls of humanity. I find it very telling most people I know are perfectly ok with the fact that the new Jordan's they're wearing were made by a child laborer for a disgustingly low price and then hustled to them for an obnoxious profit. Just for the logo.

I don't really see the problem.Well I do, I wouldn't waste my money on Nikes and I'd prefer someone else to pick up the tab for the shoes I would actually buy in the first place, I've more important things to spend my own money on.

[Larry of the Lawn]

I don't really see the problem.Well I do, I wouldn't waste my money on Nikes and I'd prefer someone else to pick up the tab for the shoes I would actually buy in the first place, I've more important things to spend my own money on.

Who buys your shoes?

[Swordfish]

Getting worse? Oh; please, human beings have been obsessed with wealth, luxury and their appearance for thousands of years.

I will never understand this whole "modern day shittiness" and now we're supposedly getting worse. KIDS THESE DAYS, BAH!

As an ancient History student in my third year currently writing my dissertation all I can say is that it's astounding, in many ways, how much people HAVEN'T changed.

The walls of pompeii have the same '_____ + ______ 4 EVA" "I LUV MY GIRLFRIEND"

"IM GAY LOL CRY OVER MY PENIS LADIES"

seriously. Part of the Homeric ideal for Heroes was how much fucking geras they had; how much loot they'd get from conquests, how much food they'd get at banquets, their standing in society based on wealth and luxury.

Yes. This.

[GallowKnight]

When exactly was this mythological time when everything was just so much better?

[Tellus Explorer]

When exactly was this mythological time when everything was just so much better?

You are missing the point. I'm not saying it was ever better, I'm just saying we would THINK that with all of the past events in history that we would learn something. Beauty for example, woman (as a whole) have been enduring pain just to be whatever was considered beautiful. And they still do it now!

[Castel]

You are missing the point. I'm not saying it was ever better, I'm just saying we would THINK that with all of the past events in history that we would learn something. Beauty for example, woman (as a whole) have been enduring pain just to be whatever was considered beautiful. And they still do it now!

You don't consider the body acceptance movement a change? After all, it isn't about winning for an indeterminate amount of time in the struggle for dominance between certain standards of beauty but not letting any of those define you in general (well...sometimes).

But you're assuming that things aren't working the way they were built to work. If something is constant over time one should wonder whether it makes sense that people could "learn" their way out of it without some major changes.

[Castel]

Regarding role models,

Entertainers are the providers of happiness, and happiness is the most valuable commodity on Earth - whether we know it or not.

And they're far more compromised financially than that shipping magnate that worked his way from the bottom. Tell that guy to be a role model...well, you can't, cause you wouldn't even get close enough to him for him to tell you to go fuck yourself to your face. The entertainer however is great because they want to be liked and you can squeeze them right in the endorsements and ratings until they fold.

Bread & Circuses. And because it's apolitical and enjoyable.

Well, it seems apolitical. Which is the same thing, except more horrible.

[Sci-2]

Well, it seems apolitical. Which is the same thing, except more horrible.

Ah, good point. I was a bit rushed in my answering as I wanted to direct the post to the important realizations about Gnosticism and UFOs[.]

Apologies.

[Hans Gruber]

Who buys your shoes?

I've gotten away with it on expenses a few times.

[Larry of the Lawn]

I've gotten away with it on expenses a few times.

What does that mean?

[Hans Gruber]

What does that mean?

I've put various of items of clothing through on my expense account.Company funded Prada shoes, yes thanks :D.

[Ulthosian Stark]

Funny how people blow up without reading all the posts nobody said the past was any better or worse, it was used as an example lol.

My whole issue is many a terrible thing is done in the name of getting that certain item. The reason said item is worth terrible things is materialism. People wouldn't want the item if the "ooooo" or the "shiny!" value wasn't already placed in it. This of course doesn't count for essentials.

Perfect example is Ivory hunting, terrible things done just for the sake if some person to display a fucking piece of ivory? Same logic can be applies to anything made in 3rd world factories where there are little to no child labor laws.

Kids getting paid cents an hour while making shoes that cost cents to make so they can send em here and sell them for a huge profit? Guess what drives this? Materialism. Its like street hustling in many ways, people have just been raised like this so they think its ok.

Then the economy dips partially because American companies have sent factories to these places and that money is now going to the place of production and the companies pocket.

Its all done so the companies can make more money, so they are intentionally screwing us in TWO different ways. So we end up spending more money and getting less back econimically on all of these very common items like iphones and Nikes.

High tier exec types are some of the most materialistic people in the planet. Remember the "bonus" system they used on wall street to cover up the gross overpayment of CEOs etc? That sparked Occupy?

So its all just one big mentally challenged rotation that'll stop when we either get smarter or as a nation stop being able to afford that shit.

Theda Baratheon, do you know many young teens? Its a lot more then fishy face or whatever. I've heard my ex girlfriends little sister literally bawling her eyes out about only getting 5 likes on a picture. I've seen this happen more and more as some of my friends kids/nephews or nieces get older. It really effects them if nobody likes their stuff, they feel its because nobody likes them. 14 year old boys visibly moping that nobody's noticed their new shit on FB. I've talked to them about it too its messed up.

I never said its impossible to get better, I sincerely hope we will, we just need to show the younger kids that shit doesn't matter. Happiness, physical enjoyment, passion fulfillments are what matters.

Or in the words of my next tattoo "YOUR NOT YOUR FUCKING KHAKIS"

[Castel]

Theda Baratheon, do you know many young teens? Its a lot more then fishy face or whatever. I've heard my ex girlfriends little sister literally bawling her eyes out about only getting 5 likes on a picture. I've seen this happen more and more as some of my friends kids/nephews or nieces get older. It really effects them if nobody likes their stuff, they feel its because nobody likes them. 14 year old boys visibly moping that nobody's noticed their new shit on FB. I've talked to them about it too its messed up.

Um...this seems like the most natural kid shit ever, it's not alien because new words like Facebook and like are used. I mean, I've heard some interesting talk about what social networking can do to people but this seems relatively mild.

I never said its impossible to get better, I sincerely hope we will, we just need to show the younger kids that shit doesn't matter. Happiness, physical enjoyment, passion fulfillments are what matters.

You mean happiness that comes from your friends, like the ones on FB :P

As for materialism...good luck, no one is getting smarter, nothing is changing.

[Sci-2]

As for materialism...good luck, no one is getting smarter, nothing is changing.

I don't know about this. People may not be getting smarter fast enough to reverse environmental damage, but progress is being made in a variety of arenas.

[Castel]

I don't know about this. People may not be getting smarter fast enough to reverse environmental damage, but progress is being made in a variety of arenas.

I didn't mean that the amount of information we have isn't growing. I meant that we're not getting smarter when it comes to materialism. I don't see it going away. I don't consider that the same sort of problem environmental damage any more than I would consider FB drama in teens to be the same. One of these problems can be put to scientists the other seems like something that is just...discussed endlessly and that clearly hasn't been enough to change what seems to be a fairly natural reaction.

[Sci-2]

I didn't mean that the amount of information we have isn't growing. I meant that we're not getting smarter when it comes to materialism. I don't see it going away. I don't consider that the same sort of problem environmental damage any more than I would consider FB drama in teens to be the same. One of these problems can be put to scientists the other seems like something that is just...discussed endlessly and that clearly hasn't been enough to change what seems to be a fairly natural reaction.

Well robots and AIs will take over enough jobs that people will be forced to reassess their priorities.

You'll see people become less materialistic and more about their communities...or more bitter, more provincial, less educated and more susceptible to manipulation.

[Castel]

Well robots and AIs will take over enough jobs that people will be forced to reassess their priorities.

You'll see people become less materialistic and more about their communities...or more bitter, more provincial, less educated and more susceptible to manipulation.

Just to be clear: you're talking about if robots take over but there's some basic wage or net?

Because, if so, I imagine people just start cherishing their particular styles more. Sure, you can't wave your $800 iPhone around, you just wave your cheaper, cruelty-free/made-in-this-super-cool-factory-with-this-super-cool-stamp iPhone around or whatever. It'd still be the same game.

[Sci-2]

Just to be clear: you're talking about if robots take over but there's some basic wage or net?

Because, if so, I imagine people just start cherishing their particular styles more. Sure, you can't wave your $800 iPhone around, you just wave your cheaper, cruelty-free/made-in-this-super-cool-factory-with-this-super-cool-stamp iPhone around or whatever. It'd still be the same game.

Basic wage is something I don't see happening. Not in the US at least.

[Castel]

So a permanent underclass of under qualified people? That's one way to get people to stop buying things I guess :P