Black Crow Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Martin includes NFL references in the story, not mythological references. Oh dear me yes, and all those stars that bleed theories that sprang up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew. Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 That's strange, seeing as there are a few interviews where Martin talks about what myths he's drawn inspiration from.We are just looking at those myths.Is Elio serious with that statement? He's either flat out incorrect, or just didn't word his response clearly. There's a variety of mythological inspirations in the text, and as you say, GRRM has spoken about some of them. I'm guessing that what he's specifically criticizing is people using mythology as the foundation for their theories, rather than just recognizing real world mythology for what it is -- an inspiration. In other words, we can't use Celtic mythology to determine the origins/motives/nature of the Others anymore than we can use War of the Roses to predict the fate of the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Triple post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Speaking of jealousy... Amazon is telling me tomorrow but I just tracked it and saw that it left Fort Worth this morning only a mere three hours away. I'm hoping I'll have a nice suprise at my door this evening.I live smack in the middle of Shreveport and Dallas, yet for some reason could not receive speedy delivery? Silly me ordered it regular mail when I could have hit the nearest Hastings tomorrow. Guess I will be off site until I receive my copy. :bang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 He's either flat out incorrect, or just didn't word his response clearly. There's a variety of mythological inspirations in the text, and as you say, GRRM has spoken about some of them. I'm guessing that what he's specifically criticizing is people using mythology as the foundation for their theories, rather than just recognizing real world mythology for what it is -- an inspiration. In other words, we can't use Celtic mythology to determine the origins/motives/nature of the Others anymore than we can use War of the Roses to predict the fate of the Iron Throne. The way we've always expressed it is that its fun figuring out the ingredients and that we can guess at some of the cherries because we can see where he's going at a minor level, but the cake he's baking is all his own work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 I live smack in the middle of Shreveport and Dallas, yet for some reason could not receive speedy delivery? Silly me ordered it regular mail when I could have hit the nearest Hastings tomorrow. Guess I will be off site until I receive my copy. :bang: Treat yourself to two copies. Go to Hastings tomorrow and when the original copy does arrive salt it away to keep it pristine against the day your Hastings copy falls apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The way we've always expressed it is that its fun figuring out the ingredients and that we can guess at some of the cherries because we can see where he's going at a minor level, but the cake he's baking is all his own work. Hadn't seen that particular expression before. But I agree on the bit about "fun." Obviously the theories and conversations that pop up around here have much more to do with what we get out of the text than they do with the way Martin goes about his work. Theory-by-Free-Association probably doesn't get you to accurate predictions of Martin's own storyline, but it certainly can be fun, and firing those neurons is not a bad idea at all. If you ask me, predicting the story is overrated anyway. I'd rather enjoy the ride... ETA: Also - and for what it's worth - if GRRM knew how many other books (fantasy, mythology, history, or poetry) his work has inspired me to go find and read, I honestly believe he'd be pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew. Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The way we've always expressed it is that its fun figuring out the ingredients and that we can guess at some of the cherries because we can see where he's going at a minor level, but the cake he's baking is all his own work.I've lurked these threads for a long time, and to me, the exploration of all of these influences is indeed fun, and the primary appeal of these threads. I had very little familiarity with Celtic mythology before reading Heresy, and I think a lot of the more scholarly explorations are more interesting than whether or not any of this research bears theory-fruit. Just speaking for myself, I have no single theory of what's really going on in the North, and in any given day what the Others really are will change several times within my head -- weapons created by the Singers, weapons created by a Stark greenseer, their own distinct faction of pissed-off, disembodied Weirwood sacrifices, an unintended consequence of magic that messes with the climate, a balancing force that appears whenever Azor Ahai/The King of Summer/The Oak King is born... on and on.Almost everyday I read something new here that forces me down several new theory roads, or just introduces me to literature and folklore that I was unfamiliar with. Nothing wrong with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2kgfy7/spoilers_all_ama_with_authors_of_the_world_of_ice/ http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2kgg2o/spoilers_all_ama_with_authors_of_the_world_of_ice/ Full interviews just for the hell of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2kgfy7/spoilers_all_ama_with_authors_of_the_world_of_ice/ http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2kgg2o/spoilers_all_ama_with_authors_of_the_world_of_ice/ Full interviews just for the hell of it. Wow. Very nice interview and it increases my anticipation for their book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 And... Wow.Guys, I noted in that thread that the question was being responded to as fans. Nothing in our opinions come from discussions we've had with George. We don't talk fan theories with him, there's more interesting stuff to talk about, and we like the mysteries. So as I say, nothing to get worked up about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 I've lurked these threads for a long time, and to me, the exploration of all of these influences is indeed fun, and the primary appeal of these threads. I had very little familiarity with Celtic mythology before reading Heresy, and I think a lot of the more scholarly explorations are more interesting than whether or not any of this research bears theory-fruit. Just speaking for myself, I have no single theory of what's really going on in the North, and in any given day what the Others really are will change several times within my head -- weapons created by the Singers, weapons created by a Stark greenseer, their own distinct faction of pissed-off, disembodied Weirwood sacrifices, an unintended consequence of magic that messes with the climate, a balancing force that appears whenever Azor Ahai/The King of Summer/The Oak King is born... on and on.Almost everyday I read something new here that forces me down several new theory roads, or just introduces me to literature and folklore that I was unfamiliar with. Nothing wrong with that! Exactly so and far better than endless and ultimately sterile discussion of a particular theory regarding Jon Snow's parentage, or, as I said speculation as to who is the fastest gun in Westeros or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Hadn't seen that particular expression before. But I agree on the bit about "fun." Obviously the theories and conversations that pop up around here have much more to do with what we get out of the text than they do with the way Martin goes about his work. Theory-by-Free-Association probably doesn't get you to accurate predictions of Martin's own storyline, but it certainly can be fun, and firing those neurons is not a bad idea at all. If you ask me, predicting the story is overrated anyway. I'd rather enjoy the ride... ETA: Also - and for what it's worth - if GRRM knew how many other books (fantasy, mythology, history, or poetry) his work has inspired me to go find and read, I honestly believe he'd be pleased. I've often wondered if this series is a bit of a homage to his favorite stories, whether they be myth, literature, or historical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 I've often wondered if this series is a bit of a homage to his favorite stories, whether they be myth, literature, or historical. I would say so. We have all those Celtic references and themes in text and SSM; the Sidhe, the Morrigan, Bran the Blessed and so on. The Ironborn, or at least the Drowned Men have that feel of Cthulhu about them. He has freely admitted both the Wars of the Roses inspiration and Maurice Druon's Iron Crown series - and although not openly referred to so far as I know Conrad's Heart of Darkness. As I said what comes out of the mix is his own work rather than a patching together of these sources and inspiration, but that doesn't lessen the pleasure of discussing them and re-reading them for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The Compendium of Theories is fun. I must say that this forum is proof of the expansive fandom of all things ASOIAF and GRRM. We love the books, love discussing them, and love speculating where it's going. Has there ever been another subject so popular? No, really, are there any other books out there with such fervent fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I would say so. We have all those Celtic references and themes in text and SSM; the Sidhe, the Morrigan, Bran the Blessed and so on. The Ironborn, or at least the Drowned Men have that feel of Cthulhu about them. He has freely admitted both the Wars of the Roses inspiration and Maurice Druon's Iron Crown series - and although not openly referred to so far as I know Conrad's Heart of Darkness. As I said what comes out of the mix is his own work rather than a patching together of these sources and inspiration, but that doesn't lessen the pleasure of discussing them and re-reading them for ourselves. See also: Eudora Welty, and in particular her story collection The Golden Apples. Big influence there, I expect. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless Northman Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I would say so. We have all those Celtic references and themes in text and SSM; the Sidhe, the Morrigan, Bran the Blessed and so on. The Ironborn, or at least the Drowned Men have that feel of Cthulhu about them. He has freely admitted both the Wars of the Roses inspiration and Maurice Druon's Iron Crown series - and although not openly referred to so far as I know Conrad's Heart of Darkness. As I said what comes out of the mix is his own work rather than a patching together of these sources and inspiration, but that doesn't lessen the pleasure of discussing them and re-reading them for ourselves.I wouldn't be totally surprised if Martin actually refernces or even downright plagiarizse Gatsby at the end of the last book, since he's on record considering this to be one of the best ending quotes ever: So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Case in point. Never heard of Eudora Welty before and probably never would, but having now heard of her I've cone and looked her up and may begin reading. I particularly liked her mother's contention that any room in the house was somewhere to read books, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Frye Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 And in that case, I like the notion that Monster (Gilly's boy) represents the changeling/Winter's child. After all, that was the exchange made through the Black Gate. Tossing that child onto the fire might give Mel a bit of a surprise... Then, like Navin R. Johnson, he'll find his "special purpose". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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