R+L=J v.110

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

I'm sorry, but of these 7 'clues' that you cite, only the 3rd & the 6th quotations offer any hint that R+L=J... I think you see dragons where there are none...

Agreed. A distinction could be made between clues which suggest that RLJ, on the one hand... and passages of text that may be reinterpreted in light of the assumption that RLJ, on the other.

It's also worth pointing out that kingship symbolism, DtwP symbolism, AA symbolism, etc... can stand in their own, and neither require nor imply that RLJ.

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[sj4iy]

Look. This is a project I started working on weeks ago. It's time consuming and annoying. I'm looking for any reasonable clues, whether it's actual factual clues or whether it's foreshadowing. If I've put something in there, it's because I personally feel there's a valid connection to R+L=J.

I'm looking for actual constructive criticism and help with finding anything I have missed. If there's something that is a point of contention, then I will gladly look at that particular one. But saying things like "I don't believe in most of your clues for this whole list" because you personally have a different view of what Jon Snow will become isn't helpful, nor will I take it under consideration without a reasonable explanation as to why you don't believe a clue belongs on that list.

[addicted to snow]

Look. This is a project I started working on weeks ago. It's time consuming and annoying. I'm looking for any reasonable clues, whether it's actual factual clues or whether it's foreshadowing. If I've put something in there, it's because I personally feel there's a valid connection to R+L=J.

I'm looking for actual constructive criticism and help with finding anything I have missed. If there's something that it a point of contention, then I will gladly look at that particular one. But saying things like "I don't believe in most of your clues for this whole list" because you personally have a different view of what Jon Snow will become isn't helpful, nor will I take it under consideration without a reasonable explanation as to why you don't believe a clue belongs on that list.

Think about what you just said... My beliefs on Jon Snow's future have no bearing on Jon Snow's past or R+L=J...

That said, I will restate that only #3 & #6 of your AFFC 'clues' support R+L=J...

[JonSnow4President]

Think about what you just said... My beliefs on Jon Snow's future have no bearing on Jon Snow's past or R+L=J...

That said, I will restate that only #3 & #6 of your AFFC 'clues' support R+L=J...

And none of anything you have posted in previous iterations supports Hodor being perma-warged by Jon, someone else warging into Jon's body, or Jon being the Night's King, but that doesn't stop you from acting like you're the most superior person on the planet for having it figured out.

Instead of being stubborn and refusing to listen to anything attempting to argue against extremely obscure quotes from the books that require a level of mental gymnastics to get to your prediction that Richard Nixon would think you were crazy, sj4iy posts a list of quotes she thinks might relate to R+L=J, and all that R+L=J might imply. She doesn't say "these quotes are ironclad proof of R+L=J," and treat anyone that disagrees like they are dumber than a goldfish for not agreeing with her interpretation.

[J. Stargaryen]

And none of anything you have posted in previous iterations supports Hodor being perma-warged by Jon, someone else warging into Jon's body, or Jon being the Night's King, but that doesn't stop you from acting like you're the most superior person on the planet for having it figured out.

Instead of being stubborn and refusing to listen to anything attempting to argue against extremely obscure quotes from the books that require a level of mental gymnastics to get to your prediction that Richard Nixon would think you were crazy, sj4iy posts a list of quotes she thinks might relate to R+L=J, and all that R+L=J might imply. She doesn't say "these quotes are ironclad proof of R+L=J," and treat anyone that disagrees like they are dumber than a goldfish for not agreeing with her interpretation.

Long live Karl Ned reborn!!!

[sj4iy]

Full PDF of all of the hints collected for all five books:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aepo0nihu8ie2i5/RLJ%20Quotes.pdf?dl=0

I will also add a link to my signature.

[BearQueen87]

Full PDF of all of the hints collected for all five books:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aepo0nihu8ie2i5/RLJ%20Quotes.pdf?dl=0

I will also add a link to my signature.

Great job!!!! And thanks for doing this.

[Alia of the knife]

Goodness, did you just make a case for a Jon and Dany marriage?! And lies. No one can outrun the bear. It is known. Unless there is candy somewhere. Is there candy?

Hey BQ,

Our company had an event with the Junior Diabetes Foundation, and GUESS who their mascot is?!

Rufus the bear! And a video I'm sure you will enjoy. :D

https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrBT9WOtUlU4CkAhCFXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0bWg1cTU5BHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDUwMl8x?p=rufus+bear&back=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3Fp%3Drufus%2Bbear%26type%3DB111US605D20141009%26fr%3Dmcafee%26ei%3DUTF-8&w=300&h=292&imgurl=deerlakestore.com%2Fruss%2Fimages%2FRUfusbig.jpg&size=15KB&name=RUfusbig.jpg&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdeerlakestore.com%2Fruss%2Frufus.htm&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdeerlakestore.com%2Fruss%2Frufus.htm&type=&no=2&tt=115&oid=4cd37ac18413962fc210ae603023e03c&tit=Rufus+the+Diabetes+Teddy+Bear+-+%2424.95&sigr=117r5ujsb&sigi=11ag9u4tv&sign=10cu1q2f9&sigt=103ooeh2o&sigb=12n8ul307&fr=mcafee

Baby bear in a Rite Aide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7E9yvbjhYWo

And bears can run up to forty miles per hour even with all their majestic girth. ;)

[sj4iy]

Great job!!!! And thanks for doing this.

Thanks :D Glad I could help out some.

[BearQueen87]

Hey BQ,

Our company had an event with the Junior Diabetes Foundation, and GUESS who their mascot is?!

Rufus the bear! And a video I'm sure you will enjoy. :D

https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrBT9WOtUlU4CkAhCFXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0bWg1cTU5BHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDUwMl8x?p=rufus+bear&back=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3Fp%3Drufus%2Bbear%26type%3DB111US605D20141009%26fr%3Dmcafee%26ei%3DUTF-8&w=300&h=292&imgurl=deerlakestore.com%2Fruss%2Fimages%2FRUfusbig.jpg&size=15KB&name=RUfusbig.jpg&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdeerlakestore.com%2Fruss%2Frufus.htm&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdeerlakestore.com%2Fruss%2Frufus.htm&type=&no=2&tt=115&oid=4cd37ac18413962fc210ae603023e03c&tit=Rufus+the+Diabetes+Teddy+Bear+-+%2424.95&sigr=117r5ujsb&sigi=11ag9u4tv&sign=10cu1q2f9&sigt=103ooeh2o&sigb=12n8ul307&fr=mcafee

Baby bear in a Rite Aide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7E9yvbjhYWo

And bears can run up to forty miles per hour even with all their majestic girth. ;)

O________________________________O

Look at the baby!!!!!!!!! That's the Bear Cavalry in training right there!!

[Alia of the knife]

O________________________________O

Look at the baby!!!!!!!!! That's the Bear Cavalry in training right there!!

But what was that the animal control officer was carrying?

Was he going to catch her with a trash can? :shocked:

[BearQueen87]

But what was that the animal control officer was carrying?

Was he going to catch her with a trash can? :shocked:

Maybe it had honey it in! Bears like honey :) So cute, though.

[F The King]

Okay, I have a question:

If R+L=J was true, why did Ned lie to Cat? Why didn't he tell Cat the truth and ask to keep it secret? She wasn't a moron, and she definitely would have kept it secret. I don't see why Ned needed to keep it from her. All it did was hurt the relationship between them and made Cat treat Jon like a piece of shit.

[BearQueen87]

Okay, I have a question:

If R+L=J was true, why did Ned lie to Cat? Why didn't he tell Cat the truth and ask to keep it secret? She wasn't a moron, and she definitely would have kept it secret. I don't see why Ned needed to keep it from her. All it did was hurt the relationship between them and made Cat treat Jon like a piece of shit.

Because some secrets are so big that you have to keep them from the ones you love. What if Cat was someday forced to chose between her children and Jon, the Targaryen heir? What would she did.

And Cat did not treat Jon like a piece of shit. The treatment of Jon by Cat is often greatly exaggerated. It was some cold look and and she did not go out of her way to speak to him, but she was not malicious or cruel to his face except for one time which was totally understandable given that her boy was lying broken in bed.

[sj4iy]

Okay, I have a question:

If R+L=J was true, why did Ned lie to Cat? Why didn't he tell Cat the truth and ask to keep it secret? She wasn't a moron, and she definitely would have kept it secret. I don't see why Ned needed to keep it from her. All it did was hurt the relationship between them and made Cat treat Jon like a piece of shit.

For several reasons:

1. Ned doesn't know what Cat would do if she were ever in the situation where she had to choose between Jon or her children.

2. Cat doesn't exactly make the best choices when it comes to matters of the heart.

3. Some secrets are too dangerous to tell anyone. This is one of those times, because it's literally a life or death situation.

I agree with BQ87...Cat didn't treat Jon badly. She simply ignored him for the most part, and while it does affect him to some extent, he's luckier than most bastards are in that he was raised with his (supposed) half-brothers and half-sisters and received the same education and training they did. Jon most definitely didn't suffer.

[JonSnow4President]

Okay, I have a question:

If R+L=J was true, why did Ned lie to Cat? Why didn't he tell Cat the truth and ask to keep it secret? She wasn't a moron, and she definitely would have kept it secret. I don't see why Ned needed to keep it from her. All it did was hurt the relationship between them and made Cat treat Jon like a piece of shit.

Ned didn't want to take any chances. At the time he returned with Jon, he didn't know Cat particularly well, so it's out of the question at that point. Afterwards, through her treatment of Jon, he comes to wonder what would happen if she was put into a situation where she had to choose between revealing Jon's parentage and guaranteeing her own children's safety. Based on his thoughts at the end of his life, I think that represents what Ned thinks pretty well.

Personally, I believe Lyanna's requested promise was that Ned would raise Jon as his own son. That's why he feels like he regrets broken promises so much. He raised him as his own bastard because he could never get Catelyn to come around, which I'm not sure he would have ever considered when promising Lyanna.

Edit: Double ninja'd

[F The King]

Because some secrets are so big that you have to keep them from the ones you love. What if Cat was someday forced to chose between her children and Jon, the Targaryen heir? What would she did.

And Cat did not treat Jon like a piece of shit. The treatment of Jon by Cat is often greatly exaggerated. It was some cold look and and she did not go out of her way to speak to him, but she was not malicious or cruel to his face except for one time which was totally understandable given that her boy was lying broken in bed.

What if Ned was forced to choose between his children and Jon? Also, what sort of situation would cause her to have to make that choice?

For several reasons:

1. Ned doesn't know what Cat would do if she were ever in the situation where she had to choose between Jon or her children.

2. Cat doesn't exactly make the best choices when it comes to matters of the heart.

3. Some secrets are too dangerous to tell anyone. This is one of those times, because it's literally a life or death situation.

The book really seemed to emphasize the love between Ned and Cat. I honestly think it's out of character for Ned not to have told her, if it were true.

[sj4iy]

What if Ned was forced to choose between his children and Jon? Also, what sort of situation would cause her to have to make that choice?

The book really seemed to emphasize the love between Ned and Cat. I honestly think it's out of character for Ned not to have told her, if it were true.

I don't. I love my husband, but that doesn't mean I tell him everything, and he doesn't tell me everything. In fact, he has a top secret job and isn't ALLOWED to tell me what he does at work. If he told me, then we could both be in trouble, and so could our children.

Ned's in the same situation. Why risk it? Ned doesn't know how she'll react...he can't know. You might think "oh, well, she'll be happy that Jon's not a bastard", but that's not really true. She will then worry about the fact that the son of Rhaegar Targaryan is living under her roof and growing up with her children, knowing that if he were ever found out, it could put her children at risk for their lives. There's no reason to burden Cat with that knowledge. It's much safer for Ned's entire family if she believes that Jon is Ned's bastard.

And really, if Ned were going to tell anyone who Jon is, it would be Jon. He clearly wanted to at some point, but never got the chance.

[F The King]

I don't. I love my husband, but that doesn't mean I tell him everything, and he doesn't tell me everything. In fact, he has a top secret job and isn't ALLOWED to tell me what he does at work. If he told me, then we could both be in trouble, and so could our children.

Ned's in the same situation. Why risk it? Ned doesn't know how she'll react...he can't know. You might think "oh, well, she'll be happy that Jon's not a bastard", but that's not really true. She will then worry about the fact that the son of Rhaegar Targaryan is living under her roof and growing up with her children, knowing that if he were ever found out, it could put her children at risk for their lives. There's no reason to burden Cat with that knowledge. It's much safer for Ned's entire family if she believes that Jon is Ned's bastard.

And really, if Ned were going to tell anyone who Jon is, it would be Jon. He clearly wanted to at some point, but never got the chance.

I see your point. But that does lead to my next question: why didn't he tell Jon before he left for the Wall? Or, more importantly, why did he let him take the black? This is the unknown son of Rhaegar here, you're gonna let him take the vows of the Night's Watch and potentially die an icy death?

[JonSnow4President]

So, just saw this line brought up in a possible alternatives for R+L=J thread, that as of now has no alternatives responded to it. We know from the books that Edric Dayne was told he and Jon Snow were milk brothers by both being nursed by Wylla.

Why the hell would Edric Dayne be told he was a milk brother with some random bastard of some Lord in a different part of the country? Seems an odd topic to bring up if you don't believe Jon will be some sort of important person, personally.