Why Robert's Rebellion?

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Every now and then, an issue of Robert Baratheon becoming the leader of the rebellion, and future king, will emerge. Most recently in the "Will Stannis step aside" thread. It appears to me that there's a gap in history. Namely: when, and by whom, it was decided that Robert would be the boss? And why? And many posters fill that gap to fit their fancy, for example assigning Robert Baratheon's Targaryen heritage various weight, from "crucial" to "barely a factor".

Here's my question, then: what do we know for a fact? What's been explicitly said in the books on this issue? Quotations from the published novels, SSM's, even sample chapters and TWOIAF (if there's something relevant there) are all welcome.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Robert became the crown candidate named by the four rebelling Lords Paramount at or shortly before the Trident. Never the leader though, that was always Jon Arryn.

Don't have the sources on hand, but there should be some SSM's covering that.

He likely became the candidate as a compromise. Jon Arryn was old and heirless, Ned an Old Gods Northmen without interest in ruling, Hoster Tully was late to the Rebellion.

[Fat Mac]

It became Robert's Rebellion because Ned and JA decided he should take the throne. Definitely wasn't Robert's choice.

[Knight Of Winter]

We have little info from books on that matter (I remember one quote: You should have been king, Ned ; Your right was greater, Your Grace), but I think this was the case:

He likely became the candidate as a compromise. Jon Arryn was old and heirless, Ned an Old Gods Northmen without interest in ruling, Hoster Tully was late to the Rebellion.

Robert was young, dashing, charismatic, full of life...and by far the best choice for kingship amongst rebellion leaders.

[Bobby B's Bottom Bitch]

Also if it was called Ned's rebellion or Jon's rebellion that sounds boring.

[Lullipop]

Someone in other topic said that Robert's Rebellion got this name in retrospect, and that it would have gotten another one according with who' taken de Throne. I always thought it was his rebellion since the beginning because Lyanna was his bethroned, thus making him the one to rescue her and her honor. But I also aways thought that a Stark Rebelllion would make more sense, because, you know, it was the House that lost most of his members to the Targs. With also justifies Ned not wanting to be king, besides his own lack of interest: Winterfell was really needing Starks there.

[Raving Stark the Mad]

Robert had the strongest claim by blood, and was the only one dumb enough to accept it. He was the most driven. Ned, and Jon perhaps, never planned to wipe out the Targaryens. It was Robert who demanded/accepted that they all needed to be exterminated. He may not have been the brains, but he was always the leader between him and Ned.

[KingofSothoryos]

I think the quote from Ned about Robert's better claim is the only statement from one of the three decision makers because we never hear from Jon Arryn. But I think there was little to no choice, since Jon Arryn was old and heirless, Ned had no interest since we wasn't raised as the heir to a Lord, and the Stormlands' proximity to the Crownlands, while Vale and North are too remote.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

They were really sold on the alliteration.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Someone in other topic said that Robert's Rebellion got this name in retrospect, and that it would have gotten another one according with who' taken de Throne. I always thought it was his rebellion since the beginning because Lyanna was his bethroned, thus making him the one to rescue her and her honor. But I also aways thought that a Stark Rebelllion would make more sense, because, you know, it was the House that lost most of his members to the Targs. With also justifies Ned not wanting to be king, besides his own lack of interest: Winterfell was really needing Starks there.

It was Jon Arryn's Rebellion in the first place. Because he started it.

[Tyrion the Perfect]

Robert had the strongest claim by blood, and was the only one dumb enough to accept it. He was the most driven. Ned, and Jon perhaps, never planned to wipe out the Targaryens. It was Robert who demanded/accepted that they all needed to be exterminated. He may not have been the brains, but he was always the leader between him and Ned.

This. I don't think JA or Ned wanted anything to do with that ugly ass chair.

[mdw4950]

iirc robert kind of got voted in. jon arryn technically started the war though. after the mad king killed neds father and brother, and raeghar 'kidnapped' lyanna, he sent a message to arryn demanding that he hand over ned and robert too. arryn refused and decided that this was the time to fully start the rebellion.

arryn started calling banners and working out alliances but they didnt really have a leader. robert accepted even though he didnt really want it. he seemed like the logical choice because he had the closest bloodline and was the best fighter of the group.

[Lion of the West]

As Bright Blue Eyes said Robert was never the leader but became the rebels' candidate for the throne. He had the image of a good poster-boy, was charismatic and a strong warrior of young age with proven fertility and of a noble and venerable House with a distant link to the Targaryens. Thus he had everything going to be the best guy for the job the rebels could put forward.

[Prince Lou of House Reed]

If Jon wanted nothing to do with the IT why was he hand of the king?

[mdw4950]

If Jon wanted nothing to do with the IT why was he hand of the king?

mostly because robert appointed him and robert had no clue how to run a kingdom. arryn ended up basically traveling around and trying to broker peace with everyone and have them accept that the baratheons were in charge now. he probably assumed that once robert had a solid foundation to work with hed act like a king but instead we all know the path robert took instead.

arryn helped raise robert and really did care about him. i always figured he didnt want to kind of abandon him, and the seven kingdoms, when he saw what kind of king robert was turning into. that and im sure jon was smart enough to know that if he resigned as hand then tywin would likely be named in his place.

he did name ned as hand when jon died but this was a lot later once robert already noticed that he couldnt trust the lannisters. at the time when jon would have turned it down/resigned he was oblivious to see that he surrounded himself with people he couldnt trust. at the time he won the throne he didnt really have anyone else to name other than jon. he never liked stannis, he wasnt on good terms with ned after the rebellion and i dont think he knew tywin personally at all.

[Raving Stark the Mad]

If Jon wanted nothing to do with the IT why was he hand of the king?

There is a big difference between being hand and being KING. The Hand can QUIT and go home. The King cannot.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

I really think that the fact he had a claim was the clincher but the only textual evidence we have I think is then quote knight of winter posted.

So what can we learn from that?

Robert thinks he wasn't a good choice for king.

Ned thinks that he was chosen due to blood.

What is interesting about this interaction IMO is what Ned doesn't say (which for Ned can speak volumes: see also anything about Lyanna or jon). Ned doesn't say "oh but you were obviously the best person for the Job". Maybe this is because Ned knows this isn't true

[Bobby B's Bottom Bitch]

There is a big difference between being hand and being KING. The Hand can QUIT and go home. The King cannot.

Although it hasn't happened in the series yet it could be possible for a King to abdicate like some monarchs do in real life.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Although it hasn't happened in the series yet it could be possible for a King to abdicate like some monarchs do in real life.

Duncan the Small abdicate his rights. It's possible.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

If Jon wanted nothing to do with the IT why was he hand of the king?

Misunderstanding.

Jon didn't have any objections to ruling. But he was an old man with known fertility issues and without a heir. Basically the worst possible choice for longterm stability.