The Riverlands Web V.3

[Booknerd2]

I LOVE IT!!! Look at Catelyn's face!!! Now imagine Sandor doing that to him, that would be awesome. He wouldn't stop, either.

I do too. I miss the Ned. Her face is hilarious.

Now…with this one. Let's pretend that Sandor kicks the crap out of LF and throws him from a great height in the Vale, or elsewhere, if they don't go back to the Moon Door.

Ok, there is Sandor, and the other guy we pretend is LF.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131003204823/gameofthrones/images/9/94/NamedayTourney.jpg

Ah, one can hope...

[Booknerd2]

Yeah, but I was also entertaining…not sure though.

How can LF involve them and not tell them who it is?

The backlash when he did the reveal or they found out would not be that great.

He probably had to.

Or someone recognized her and he had to confess? Not sure about that and no proof yet either.

We did it yesterday, but I think we still have to look into the drinking scene again. I still feel like stuff is floating over my head with this guy.

[LongRider]

I doubt he's told anyone yet, but yeah, I can see a backlash at the reveal. And, oh the backlash from a Blackfish, sounds wonderful, doesn't it?

[Booknerd2]

I doubt he's told anyone yet, but yeah, I can see a backlash at the reveal. And, oh the backlash from a Blackfish, sounds wonderful, doesn't it?

Edmure is er, indisposed right now, but I think even his uncle is quicker on the uptake with LF then he is. Blackfish was an adult at Riverrun and I am probably sure he heard a lot later too.

Edmure was the youngest and I am not sure he knows all the stuff between Hoster-Lysa-LF-Cat. Maybe he does?

[fellow reader]

Any thoughts on some of the other miscellaneous items tied with him?

-The Tapestries

- Will he step foot in Harrenhal?

-The "Stone Giant"

the tapestries: They are mentioned as some old tapestries from Robert, perhaps they are the ones that got removed from the walls of the Red Keep after his death. We have read about tapestries which make a political statement: the tapestries in castle Darry. Tyrion told Jaime they showed the Targaryen kings and were hidden for Roberts visit. Cerseis children are presented as Roberts heirs and shoving his visitors tapestries which once belonged to Robert and were sent by his widow during the reign of his "son" could bring various results for Littlefinger.

-proving that he has the backing of the Iron Throne

-or he later lies and claims that Jon Arryns foster child King Robert gave them to him as an act of friendship; it would be very useful if he tries to appear as a friend of Robert, more so if he presents Neds daughter whom he "protected" from the Lannister regime when they finally loose power and he wants to get the lords and knights of the Vale on his side for a move against the "false Lannister bastards whose mother decieved him like the rest of the realm"; remember that he counts on Cerseis self destruction

Or he tries to smuggle something out of Kings Landing and uses the tapestries as a cover. His henchmen could even go into the Red Keep to get the tapestries and secretly hide something in them in order to bring it to him without attracting anyones attention. Perhaps something that will not really be missed, but what would be of use for him somehow and would raise questions if he himself tries to get it.

Harrenhal is an enormous ruin, it is impressive, but uncomfortable and very difficult to maintain. Since Littlefinger managed to grab the seat of the Arryns and wants more, I do not think that he will want to live there as long as it is in its current state. He likes his expensive clothes and surely the comforts of a noble seat, in contrast to his own home on the fingers which he despises. He uses the titles Lord of Harrenhal and Lord Paramount of the Riverlands, but so far he has not shown any interest in dealing with the mess the region has become, he lets others do that(Cersei sent Ser Bonifer Hasty and his Holy Hundred) which fits with his usual behaviour of profiting from the work of others and leaving everyone behind to deal with the mess he created like he always did: he did not give a damn about Lysa and their baby, he instigated the civil war and leant back and plotted his next schemes while the others fought the battles

the stone giant: Do you mean LFs real family sigl, the head of the Titan of Braavos? I think the prophetic dream of the Ghost of the High Heart was about his downfall. the same maid that had the poison inher hair during a wedding(without a doubt Sansa) will slay a savage giant. Littlefinger committed lots of atrocities like murder and making an 11 years old girl into a tortured sex slave, so he is savage, and he is a giant because he had an unnoticed big influence on the events and uses even the most powerful like henchmen through his manipulations.

Or do you mean Brans dream? The stone armour could refer to LFs family sigl, and the thick black blood inside could represent his personality. He is evil because he is utterly amoral and would commit all kinds of atrocities if he gets something out of it. And he looms over Sansa because he is responsible for her misery(his betrayal of her father led to her imprisonment in Kings Landing) and she is now completely at his mercy.

[LongRider]

fellow reader said " the tapestries: They are mentioned as some old tapestries from Robert, perhaps they are the ones that got removed from the walls of the Red Keep after his death. We have read about tapestries which make a political statement: the tapestries in castle Darry. Tyrion told Jaime they showed the Targaryen kings and were hidden for Roberts visit. Cerseis children are presented as Roberts heirs and shoving his visitors tapestries which once belonged to Robert and were sent by his widow during the reign of his "son" could bring various results for Littlefinger.

-proving that he has the backing of the Iron Throne

-or he later lies and claims that Jon Arryns foster child King Robert gave them to him as an act of friendship; it would be very useful if he tries to appear as a friend of Robert, more so if he presents Neds daughter whom he "protected" from the Lannister regime when they finally loose power and he wants to get the lords and knights of the Vale on his side for a move against the "false Lannister bastards whose mother decieved him like the rest of the realm"; remember that he counts on Cerseis self destruction

Or he tries to smuggle something out of Kings Landing and uses the tapestries as a cover. His henchmen could even go into the Red Keep to get the tapestries and secretly hide something in them in order to bring it to him without attracting anyones attention. Perhaps something that will not really be missed, but what would be of use for him somehow and would raise questions if he himself tries to get it."

These are some good ideas about the tapestries. I like the smuggling idea alot.

[Booknerd2]

the tapestries: They are mentioned as some old tapestries from Robert, perhaps they are the ones that got removed from the walls of the Red Keep after his death. We have read about tapestries which make a political statement: the tapestries in castle Darry. Tyrion told Jaime they showed the Targaryen kings and were hidden for Roberts visit. Cerseis children are presented as Roberts heirs and shoving his visitors tapestries which once belonged to Robert and were sent by his widow during the reign of his "son" could bring various results for Littlefinger.

-proving that he has the backing of the Iron Throne

-or he later lies and claims that Jon Arryns foster child King Robert gave them to him as an act of friendship; it would be very useful if he tries to appear as a friend of Robert, more so if he presents Neds daughter whom he "protected" from the Lannister regime when they finally loose power and he wants to get the lords and knights of the Vale on his side for a move against the "false Lannister bastards whose mother decieved him like the rest of the realm"; remember that he counts on Cerseis self destruction

Or he tries to smuggle something out of Kings Landing and uses the tapestries as a cover. His henchmen could even go into the Red Keep to get the tapestries and secretly hide something in them in order to bring it to him without attracting anyones attention. Perhaps something that will not really be missed, but what would be of use for him somehow and would raise questions if he himself tries to get it.

Harrenhal is an enormous ruin, it is impressive, but uncomfortable and very difficult to maintain. Since Littlefinger managed to grab the seat of the Arryns and wants more, I do not think that he will want to live there as long as it is in its current state. He likes his expensive clothes and surely the comforts of a noble seat, in contrast to his own home on the fingers which he despises. He uses the titles Lord of Harrenhal and Lord Paramount of the Riverlands, but so far he has not shown any interest in dealing with the mess the region has become, he lets others do that(Cersei sent Ser Bonifer Hasty and his Holy Hundred) which fits with his usual behaviour of profiting from the work of others and leaving everyone behind to deal with the mess he created like he always did: he did not give a damn about Lysa and their baby, he instigated the civil war and leant back and plotted his next schemes while the others fought the battles

the stone giant: Do you mean LFs real family sigl, the head of the Titan of Braavos? I think the prophetic dream of the Ghost of the High Heart was about his downfall. the same maid that had the poison inher hair during a wedding(without a doubt Sansa) will slay a savage giant. Littlefinger committed lots of atrocities like murder and making an 11 years old girl into a tortured sex slave, so he is savage, and he is a giant because he had an unnoticed big influence on the events and uses even the most powerful like henchmen through his manipulations.

Or do you mean Brans dream? The stone armour could refer to LFs family sigl, and the thick black blood inside could represent his personality. He is evil because he is utterly amoral and would commit all kinds of atrocities if he gets something out of it. And he looms over Sansa because he is responsible for her misery(his betrayal of her father led to her imprisonment in Kings Landing) and she is now completely at his mercy.

With Harrenhal, so much has happened there, it comes up all the time, so I think the story isn't finished there. I think the odds might be low to of him going there for whatever reason. He certainly does like his creature comforts.

The tapestries - I flip flop and I need to do more research too. I know hunting scenes were mentioned. If it is family, I am sure there are people on it with black hair and blue eyes…But possibly there are other scenes and things not though of yet. I like the smuggling idea too. But for a period with no youtube, photos, and technology, without having the book Jon Arryn asked for, this would be a good step too.

But he already knows Cersei has enough self-caused problems going on. So, are they for another reasons, or to seal the nail in her coffin so to speak. Did he ask for any Targ ones? I have to check I can't remember, or it wasn't clear. It has been awhile since I read it.

But like you said, there are other possibilities too.

I don't have the grasp on this that I want yet, so I can't really say that I have a firm stance.

The Giant thing is another. I've seen many great theories and I still need to look into it more and I flip flop. Although these days, I am leaning less toward Gregor. I think for any big prophecy he is out. Oberyn had his dance with him and took him down.

We will know more when we see just exactly what this Robert Strong thing is.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

These are some good ideas about the tapestries. I like the smuggling idea alot.

Agreed, nice post fellow reader ! Like LongRider, I like the smuggling idea. What could it be ? I'll have to think on that.

I can't see LF going to Harrenhal, he knows of the curse, seems reluctant to go there, and is happy with the power this title brings him. However, I can see Harrenhal being important moving forward, and he is the Lord of the Castle. If only we could speak to Ben Blackthumb, he's served 3 generations of Whent, and Lord Lothston prior to that, and is presumably still there presently. How old is this dude ? If anyone knows the secrets of Harrenhal, it's Ben.

As fellow reader mentioned, the stone giant seems to suggest LF. I think I agree, but seems a little too obvious. Maybe that's because we're some of the people that have tried to go deep into the understanding of the series. :dunno: I'll have to look into this a bit more.

[Le Cygne]

Giant as Littlefinger is a nice thought, I'm more thinking it's Gregor and has already played out. It was about events surrounding the time of Lady's death and the aftermath, Ned pleading for Lady and then Sansa, Sansa crying for Lady and Ned, Arya's heart hardening and her list growing, Sandor and Jaime at first obeying commands, then looking out for them (or attempting to in the case of Jaime), Gregor raping and pillaging the Riverlands, creating the mess they were to then navigate.

[Booknerd2]

Agreed, nice post fellow reader ! Like LongRider, I like the smuggling idea. What could it be ? I'll have to think on that.

I can't see LF going to Harrenhal, he knows of the curse, seems reluctant to go there, and is happy with the power this title brings him. However, I can see Harrenhal being important moving forward, and he is the Lord of the Castle. If only we could speak to Ben Blackthumb, he's served 3 generations of Whent, and Lord Lothston prior to that, and is presumably still there presently. How old is this dude ? If anyone knows the secrets of Harrenhal, it's Ben.

As fellow reader mentioned, the stone giant seems to suggest LF. I think I agree, but seems a little too obvious. Maybe that's because we're some of the people that have tried to go deep into the understanding of the series. :dunno: I'll have to look into this a bit more.

And I had a thought, Littlefinger again gets his grubby hands involved in anything to do with Cat.

She is half Whent.…now he holds Harrenhal. So much overlay great and small.

Really, forget the Tullys, I rue the day they ever took that boy in. LOL!

[Booknerd2]

Giant as Littlefinger is a nice thought, I'm more thinking it's Gregor and has already played out. It was about events surrounding the time of Lady's death and the aftermath, Ned pleading for Lady and then Sansa, Sansa crying for Lady and Ned, Arya's heart hardening and her list growing, Sandor and Jaime at first obeying commands, then looking out for them (or attempting to in the case of Jaime), Gregor raping and pillaging the Riverlands, creating the mess they were to then navigate.

And this looks great, and I can get behind this.

Prophecies cause me undue stress.

[Booknerd2]

Update: The profiles are moving along, but there is more to do and more names/things to add going forward in the OP.

So, far these are the profiles that were added/updated:

-The Twins

-Oathkeeper

-Edric Dayne

-The Hound Helm

[Wizz-The-Smith]

Giant as Littlefinger is a nice thought, I'm more thinking it's Gregor and has already played out. It was about events surrounding the time of Lady's death and the aftermath, Ned pleading for Lady and then Sansa, Sansa crying for Lady and Ned, Arya's heart hardening and her list growing, Sandor and Jaime at first obeying commands, then looking out for them (or attempting to in the case of Jaime), Gregor raping and pillaging the Riverlands, creating the mess they were to then navigate.

I agree, and I like the way you've explained it, especially the bold. I've not seen it broken down quite like this before. I think this is Bran's vision in AGOT. However, I think fellow reader was alluding to The Ghost of High Heart's prophetic dream, told to Beric, Lem and Thoros in ASOS chapter 43 Arya...

'' I dreamt a wolf howling in the rain, but no-one heard his grief. I dreamt such a clangor I thought my head might burst, drums and horns and pipes and screams, but the saddest was the little bells. I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow.''

The maid certainly sounds like Sansa, and the giant LF. But not sold quite yet, this straight out insinuates that Sansa will slay LF. Maybe it's symbolic of the beginning of Petyr's downfall, or indeed something else entirely. :dunno:

[Le Cygne]

Both were mentioned. Stone giant is Bran's dream. As for the savage giant...

I think it was likely Littlefinger in the snow castle, there was subtext about his sexual assaults (don't break it, the tower brought down by snow), and perhaps foreshadowing that Sweetrobin will hand Sansa the opportunity to kill LF, too.

The boy knelt before the gatehouse. "Look, here comes a giant to knock it down... Ho ho ho, open your gates or I'll mash them and smash them."...

She grabbed for his hand, but she caught the doll instead... "You killlllllllled him," he wailed...

"A giant," the boy whispered, weeping. "It wasn't me, it was a giant hurt the castle."

This, too, he's lying to her. Just like the Lannisters, he wants heirs, she'd be a prisoner somewhere else, never seeing Winterfell again, or dead.

"I told you that nothing could please me more than to help you with your castle. I fear that was a lie as well. Something else would please me more." He stepped closer.

And she's lying to him, too:

"I..." I do not know, my lord, she almost said, but that was not what he wanted to hear. Lies and Arbor gold, she thought.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

Both were mentioned. Stone giant is Bran's dream. As for the savage giant...

I think it was likely Littlefinger in the snow castle, there was subtext about his sexual advances (don't break it, the tower brought down by snow), and perhaps foreshadowing that Sweetrobin will hand Sansa the opportunity to kill LF, too.

They were both mentioned, sorry. The Stone giant and Bran's dream is explained wonderfully.

The savage giant, I agree it seems likely that is LF, and I like the possible foreshadowing you've mentioned. I was thinking along the same lines, that Sansa may slay LF, it just seemed a little obvious. But I suppose not everyone associates a savage giant with Petyr Baelish, therefore keeping it's cryptic value.

[Le Cygne]

And this looks great, and I can get behind this.

Prophecies cause me undue stress.

Same. Not a fan at all, just tell the story.

They were both mentioned, sorry. The Stone giant and Bran's dream is explained wonderfully.

The savage giant, I agree it seems likely that is LF, and I like the possible foreshadowing you've mentioned. I was thinking along the same lines, that Sansa may slay LF, it just seemed a little obvious. But I suppose not everyone associates a savage giant with Petyr Baelish, therefore keeping it's cryptic value.

Good point.

Savage could apply to the acts he commits, like fellow reader noted. The things he does are barbaric. He's destroying innocent lives without a thought. In horrible ways. Sansa, Arya, Jeyne, Sweetrobin, countless others.

As for demeanor, that's not him. Hardly a giant, both Catelyn and Sansa describe Littlefinger as a "small man." And not at all fierce, as he himself says. It's funny, Sansa likes the Hound's ferocity, LF has no clue what makes her tick (nor does he care):

"...my grandfather took the head of the Titan as his sigil when he was knighted."

"It’s very fierce," said Sansa.

"Rather too fierce, for an amiable fellow like me," said Petyr.

[Booknerd2]

"As for demeanor, that's not him. Hardly a giant, both Catelyn and Sansa describe Littlefinger as a "small man." And not at all fierce, as he himself says. It's funny, Sansa likes the Hound's ferocity, LF has no clue what makes her tick (nor does he care):"

Yeah. And Cat had no desire and attraction for him either. Er, ever.

But you're right, you have to wonder if he even cares…he is like, well, I guess it is enough if I am interested/attracted... in both cases.

They were kids and both Cat and Lysa played their little kissing games and used him as a pillow. LOL!

I always wondered if that is when it hit for him. If he took the kiss so different from Cat did who was only experimenting.

Damn, that would be the kiss of death then.

[Le Cygne]

He's so creepy, maybe something light and fluffy next. Is there anything light and fluffy in this series? Hot Pie!!!

Just kidding, not saying we should, just the thought of this guy is so yukky, though.

[Booknerd2]

He's so creepy, maybe something light and fluffy next. Is there anything light and fluffy in this series? Hot Pie!!!

Just kidding, not saying we should, just the thought of this guy is so yukky, though.

Well, he is probably more fluffy than light...

I love this one, very cute. I just want to point out how fierce Hot Pie looks. LOL!

Move over Stranger and Big Nyms!

http://th02.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2013/254/f/a/arya_gendry_hotpie_jaqen_by_elliesky-d6lz3g8.jpg

Whoah…..Wolf Pack! :grouphug:

[fellow reader]

They were kids and both Cat and Lysa played their little kissing games and used him as a pillow. LOL!

I always wondered if that is when it hit for him. If he took the kiss so different from Cat did who was only experimenting.

Damn, that would be the kiss of death then.

I think he "loved" Catelyn because she not only looked attractive, but could also have been his ticket into the high nobility, to power and wealth.

Before Edmures late birth, Catelyn was Hosters heir. If LF had managed to marry her, he would just have had to get rid of Edmure and bingo! Littlefinger, smallest of the small lords of the Fingers becomes Petyr Baelish, next Lord of Riverrun and Lord Paramount of the Riverlands. A rocket-like ascension achieved with little effort.

That was the chance of his life, and the "bad" Tullys and Starks did not give him what he wanted, so he set his plan in motion to "punish" them for this before the start of the books with Jon Arryns death and the letter blaming the Lannisters. He wanted that they get destroyed by Tywin "Rains of Castamere" Lannister for thwarting his plan.