Top 5 blunders in the Series

[Ser Eric]

I could have included Catelyn kidnapping Tyrion in the OP but I thought 2 Starks out of 5 was harsh enough. That and the fact Catelyn redeemed herself a bit by fooling Tyrion and rest by taking him to the Eyrie instead of Winterfell. That was smart of her.

We're not really certain why Rhaegar did this. However, if we're going to spotlight a blunder, I would say that Aerys actions were stupider - that utter mockery of a trial and subsequent demands guaranteed a civil war would follow.

The Why of it does not really matter. It was stupidity of gigantic proportions with no evident attempt to smooth out things either.

[David Selig]

Robb was not going to surrender. Period.

How could he (whether as a lord or king) throw away all notion of justice and pledge himself to serve a sadistic tyrant every bit as bad as the Mad King (who would probably murder what was left of his family anyway) ?

Because he had no idea about Joffrey's personality and he never cared about justice anyway?

[Kyll.Ing.]

I'll try to come up with some original answers:

1) Khal Drogo refusing to wear the dressing on his wound. Found out the hard way how infections work.

2) Pyat Pree allowing Daenerys to bring a dragon into the House of the Undying.

3) Denys Darklyn Does Defy Dragonkings at Duskendale. Sure, refuse to pay taxes, demand special rights for your town, and when all else fails, kidnap the king. You command a small coastal town, near the capital city, the realm is united and at peace. What could go wrong?

4) Jon Snow entering Full Lord Mode at the Wall, completely alienating his friends and colleagues.

5) Rhaegar deciding to fight Robert in open combat (alternately, Robert deciding to fight Rhaegar in open combat, it could have gone both ways).

And a few I'm not sure whether counts or not:

1) Jaime and Cersei. Not sure if this counts as a blunder, but it sure sparked a hell of a lot of chaos in this series (could be excused, young kids in love do stupid things).

2) Lysa Tully and everything she says and does (could be excused, she is mad and all).

3) Aerys II Targaryen trusting Jaime after letting him know about the Wildfire Plot, while the rebellion is winning the war (could be excused, he was mad after all).

4) Jaime not telling anybody about the Wildfire Plot (could be excused, he wouldn't be likely to know about its volatility).

5) Randyll Tarly's less-than-pedagogic upbringing of his heir. Had he not got another son, Horn Hill would be passed down to an increasingly traumatic young man. Mentally scarring his heir to that degree would also be very harmful to Randyll's own reputation (could be excused, it seems to have worked well for Dickon).

[Mithras]

1) Quentyn

2) Robb

3) Viserys

4) Oberyn

5) Cersei

Special mention: Dany

[complexphoenix]

Only if you look at it from the perspective of being okay with life as the Lannisters' bottom bitch.

Robb was not going to surrender. Period.

How could he (whether as a lord or king) throw away all notion of justice and pledge himself to serve a sadistic tyrant every bit as bad as the Mad King (who would probably murder what was left of his family anyway) ?

Joffrey was a minor, and all the real power in King's Landing at that time was in the hands of Tywin. Tywin would have accepted Robb's bent knee, and once that was done Robb could return North where Joffrey would never be able to touch him.

Even if Joffrey hadn't died, Robb would have been in the clear. And as it happened, Joffrey did die, so the problem would have ended up moot.

Not surrendering was an understandable blunder, but it was still a blunder, and it cost Robb everything.

[Dragons 7th Eye]

Viserys pretty much from start of the books to the golden crown. Now, I do believe it was good writing and he was a good character but man, he really didn't play his cards well and he was so consistant in his level of ultimate fail that he takes the prize for me :)

[complexphoenix]

Catelyn's kidnapping of Tyrion strikes me as ultimately a wash. Ned still would have figured out the twincest if that hadn't happened, so averting the Catnapping wouldn't have averted the war; sure, it caused Tywin to call his banners at an earlier point in time, but any advantage he got from that was cancelled out by the Whispering Wood. So in the end, the consequences were fairly neutral in the grand scheme of things.

[DreamSongs]

But without the kidnapping, Ned is not injured. In my head, a Ned that is not injured is a much wiser Ned that doesn't play his hand to Cersei without backup from Stannis Baratheon.

[complexphoenix]

But without the kidnapping, Ned is not injured. In my head, a Ned that is not injured is a much wiser Ned that doesn't play his hand to Cersei without backup from Stannis Baratheon.

Maybe, or maybe not. Ned's honor and aversion to the killing of children would still have been a factor even if he didn't have a head full of anesthetic, so it's impossible to say whether that was a critical factor or not.

[Pod The Impaler]

Because he had no idea about Joffrey's personality and he never cared about justice anyway?

A lie, a sad little lie.

In any case, the statement I made applies to Tywin just as easily.

[DreamSongs]

Maybe, or maybe not. Ned's honor and aversion to the killing of children would still have been a factor even if he didn't have a head full of anesthetic, so it's impossible to say whether that was a critical factor or not.

No one approved of the brutal murders of Rhaenys and Aegon. Not even Tywin. Nonetheless, they did occur and Ned was less than happy with how Robert won his Rebellion.

My question is how would of Ned acted differently if A) He wasn't wounded and B) He knew his daughters were safe. My contention is that his sense of honor upon learning the truth about Cersei and Jaime leads him to an alliance with Stannis if he has the time. Unfortunately, he runs out of time due to his wound and fear for his girls.

[Katerine]

1. Aerys slighting Tywin, especially refusing to marry Rhaegar to Cersei

[Led]

1) Robb marrying Jeyne.

2) Trusting Littlefinger (multiple counts).

3) Quentyn trying to dragontame.

4) Tywin taunting Tyrion while having a crossbow aimed at him.

5) Jon Snow alienating everyone he knows at the wall.

Bonus round:

6) Should've stayed in that cave :crying:

[fellow reader]

Tywin would have accepted Robb's bent knee, and once that was done Robb could return North where Joffrey would never be able to touch him.

And Ned thought he would be allowed to go to the Wall....

Do you really think Tywin would not want get revenge on the boy who had proven that the mighty Tywin Lannister was not that great on the battle field(Robb beat Tywin on the battle field, Tywin just had lots of luck(Roose was not at all loyal to Robb and probably lost on purpose in order to weaken the other northern lords from the start, the wildfire trap on the Blackwater and the Tyrell alliance saved the Lannister regime(both were not Tywins achievement) and if Edmure had not stopped Tywins troops long enough at the fords, he would have run into Robbs trap in the Westerlands, his final "victory" over Robb was plotting the Red Wedding, an act so reviled by most that he tried to let Walder take all the blame).

And if we have found out one thing about Tywin, it is the fact that he wanted to be seen as great and reacted very angrily if that image was disturbed by someone.

-his extremely cruel "punishment" of a 13 years old girl for the crime of marrying a Lannister

-his complete annihilation of the Tarbeks and the Reynes, he did not even accept any attempts from the Reynes to talk as he besieged them, he just decided to let everyone in Castamere drown

-He presented himself as some sort of big warrior/general as he rode with his extremely impressive armor ON A HORSE into the THRONE ROOM and let himself be praised as saviour of Kings Landing, although Tyrions wildfire trap and the enormous Tyrell host(who was only there because Tyrion sent LF to arrange an alliance) were essential and his own troops were only there because his march to the Westerlands was blocked until he got the news of Stannis attack. Not even the not all modest Joffrey who was the king presented himself like that. What a slap in the face for the population of Kings Landing who still remember the brutal sack through Tywins troops. And Tyrion told Penny Tywin never even fought himself.

-Despite all the shit that Joffrey had done, and he did some really stupid and counterproductive things, Tywin wanted to punish Joffrey for pointing out that he did nothing as Robert and Co fought and decided the outcome. His wording was disrespectful, but it was the truth. Tywin just grabbed the main prize, the capital, by treachery and ordered the death of Rhaegars wife and children(I do not believe his lies, in particular that he forgot to mention the sister of the prince of Dorne, a very valuable hostage, and then simply forgave Gregor for leaving a political mess behind and gaining him a mortal enemy in Dorne and a big stain on his reputation.)

I think Tywin would have given Robb as much mercy as he gave the besieged Reynes: none!

Even if he accepted the surrender, he could simply organize some unforunate event that leads to Robbs death, but of course he would know nothing about it....like he did not know what Gregor would do to Elia(who happened to do what he had wanted for Cersei, she married the crown prince, the next king.....)....

[fellow reader]

No one approved of the brutal murders of Rhaenys and Aegon. Not even Tywin.

And you believe him? He also said that "not even Tyrion" would accuse him of ordering the rape of Elia, but that wording should attract our attention. Why especially not Tyrion? Let me think.....Oh, wait! Was not there something between Tywin and Tyrion that involved an order to commit rape? Yes, Tysha! Tywin ordered about a hundred men to rape the 13 year old girl that had dared to mary his son Tyrion, and then he orderen him to do it too. So Tyrion, the guy who had to watch as his wife was raped by a hundred men and was ordered to do it himself, all on Tywins orders, got told by Tywin that he should not accuse him of ordering a rape!

That was the mighty Tywin Lannister ("who did not shit gold in the end", who would never sleep with a whore despite the fact that a dead one was found in his bed and who delivered this impressive show in the throne room that after the Battle of the Blackwater which was more pompous than everything King Joffrey ever did although he never fought himself and was not that impressive as a general against a 15 years old boy on the battle field) at his best!

[Machinist0089]

1. Rhaegar 'kidnapping' Lyanna - Rhaegar thought it was a smart idea to run away with a woman, who was the daughter of the Warden of the North, betrothed to the Lord of the Stormlands and whose brothers were a ward to the Warden of the East and betrothed to the daughter of the Lord of the Riverlands. It wasn't. Thankfully, Robert and Ned got rid of the emo and his friends though the former didn't turn out a whole lot better.

2. Balon attacking the North - Balon's stupidity knows no bounds. Instead of either sticking to the Iron Islands or getting into an alliance with one of the kings in exchange for lands he does all of Tywin's work for him and THEN asks for the alliance. He put his misplaced sense of revenge over plain common sense. Fortunately, he died. Unfortunately for the Iron Born he was replaced by someone even more retarded.

3. Robb marrying Jeyne - Oh Robb...Honour, love and abject stupidity proved to be his undoing. RIP Young Wolf.

4. Tyrion gift wrapping Myrcella to Dorne - Oberyn must have laughed himself silly.

5. Ned warning Cersie - This was buffoonery on an epic scale. Good intentions, true, but silly and naive nonetheless.

You still actually think rhaegar kidnapped lyanna lol!

[Mal Malenkirk]

You still actually think rhaegar kidnapped lyanna lol!

You actually think that he actually thinks that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, lol!

Seriously, read again and be attentive this time.

[fellow reader]

1. Aerys slighting Tywin, especially refusing to marry Rhaegar to Cersei

Aerys was mad, so making well thought out decisions was not exactly his strength. But I think that there could be a bit of truth in the claim that the gods punished Tywin for being arrogant and thinking he was above the king. Not that Tyrion was a punishment of the gods, but that Tywin could have started to act as if he were the king and make decisions on his own against Aerys wishes. As Joffrey was king, Tywin made it very clrear that he himself has the power and not him. Maybe he tried something similar with Aerys. Aerys reminded Tywin that he was his servant which was rude but true because Tywin was no king, but King Aerys Hand instead.

Aerys was the king, not Tywin, a mad one, yes, but the king. You basically claim that Aerys should have given Tywin whatever he wanted and become his puppet. Do you really think that Tywin would just stand back and let Rhaeger take over after Aerys death if he had managed to make Cersei the queen and the mother of the future king who would be his grandson like Joffrey? I do not think that Tywin would have ever been willing to give up his power.

Aerys madness increased more and more and so he did no longer make sane decisions, but not handing the realm over to Tywin Lannister was not insane. If he felt threatened by Tywin which I think was not really unjustified, he should have sent him away and chose another hand.

The big blunder that caused his downfall was not his refusal to give Tywin what he wanted, it was neglecting to sort out what the hell Rhaegar was doing with Lyanna and his "trial" of Rickard and Brandon Stark and the execution of the rest. But Aerys was already mad and would soon have lost his power one way or the other, it was hinted that Rhaeger planned to act against him but then the rebellion interrupted whatever he was planning.

[Mal Malenkirk]

Aerys was mad, so making well thought out decisions was not exactly his strength. But I think that there could be a bit of truth in the claim that the gods punished Tywin for being arrogant and thinking he was above the king. Not that Tyrion was a punishment of the gods, but that Tywin could have started to act as if he were the king and make decisions on his own against Aerys wishes. As Joffrey was king, Tywin made it very clrear that he himself has the power and not him. Maybe he tried something similar with Aerys. Aerys reminded Tywin that he was his servant which was rude but true because Tywin was no king, but King Aerys Hand instead.

Aerys was the king, not Tywin, a mad one, yes, but the king. You basically claim that Aerys should have given Tywin whatever he wanted and become his puppet.

What we have to remember is that after the death of the dragons, the Targaryen became a very weak dynasty whose power depended entirely on the loyalty of the Lord Paramounts.

The Targaryen directly controlled very little land and manpower. If a lord Paramount became unruly, they could only put him back in his place with the support of the other lord paramounts. It's a divide to conquer deal, here, and the real source of their power was therefore mostly diplomatic.

So pissing off Tywin while not simultaneously taking steps to strenghten ties with other lord paramounts to compensate is indeed politically moronic. For pretty much the same reason that Rhaegar's elopement was politically moronic since it aggravated no less than three Lord Paramounts at the same time while Tywin was no longer Aerys' BFF to counter balance. What that tells me is that the Targaryens did not realize the most basic of political truths . They must truly believe the 'blood of the dragon' drivel.

Aerys and Rhaegar's behavior toward their Lord Parmounts would be equivlaent to Aegon mistreating his dragons. Dude, they are the source of pretty much all your power, so cut it out!

[Machinist0089]

You actually think that he actually thinks that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, lol!

Seriously, read again and be attentive this time.

dont cry mate