Why now? A theory on the sudden rise of the Others.

[Steve Lomas Longstrider]

What about the possibility that we find out about the others with a Benjen Stark pov chapter(s) in WoW? Something like him being a hostage of the others in the lands of always winter, still alive due to them being aware of his significance as a stark (something they can sense in him) and therefore able to explain their culture to the reader

[redrubies]

This one got me thinking. What if going to the Wall, and its service for life is, in effect, a blood sacrifice? Okay, you're not being killed with a bronze sickle slitting your throat there and then, but the moment you take the Black, you have devoted your life to the Watch. The actual "dying" part comes later, and might not even be important. The sacrifice is the crux of it, and the sacrifices keep the Others far at bay.

With fewer and fewer people actually committing themselves to the Watch, less blood is being sacrificed and as a result whatever spells apply are weakened. This is especially true considering that vows are broken more often than ever, with Mole Town just a stone throw away. The result is that the Others start moving again.

Just an idea I'd like to fling out there.

This is very interesting... I'm liking. Still though, The Land of Always Winter seems like a huge place and big enough to keep them well away from the wall.

IS IT POSSIBLE THEY ARE OVER-POPULATED??! THEY HAVE OVER GROWN THEIR SPACE?

[redrubies]

While someone discovering and "stealing" the Horn of Winter is a great theory, I argue that the lack of Targaryens could be a cause. Only a few years after they were forced from the throne, a long summer began (one of the longest in living memory) which is a predecessor to an even longer winter. During this time, the Others could amass power in order to begin the Long Night 2.0.

I'd just like to add a side-note/question to this.

The people of Westeros knew that a long summer was the lead to the loooong winter...why weren't they storing food in giant silos and bunkers during every harvest?? HAD THESE PEOPLE *WHOLE HUMAN RACE * NOT LEARNED ANYTHING FROM THE PAST??

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

True, the Long Night was thousands of years before Aegon's landing. But a three hundred year old dynasty associated with fire magic is driven off the continent and suddenly creatures associated with ice magic start resurfacing? It could be a coincidence.

Three hundred years in Westeros is barely a blip.

[redrubies]

In 10000 years Others never attacked or appeared.Only recently they appeared.While dragons might be a factor if it was then they would attack when last dragon died.If it was about realm being in chaos then they would attack when RR was happening(North was empty).I really do think it has something to do with Starks.Only recently Others appeared.While we really don't know when exactly did Others or wights appeared we know in the first two chapters of the book we get two magical creatures related to Starks in a way(Wall was built to prevent Others, Brandon built the Wall.Stark sigil is direwolf).

Leave it to the effing Lannisters to pull out the last of the Starks right before the worst winter EVER. Perhaps Tywin was on the Others' payroll?! [emoji14]

[redrubies]

I'd go further and say it is not even canon that the Others take Craster's 'sacrifices' at all. Leave a baby in the woods and it is a great treat for any passing scavenging animal, of which there are no lack in the lands north of the Wall.

Craster's sons can't be the only children to have died alone north-of-the-Wall in the last eight thousand years, how would the Others have even known that these particular exposed babies were left out specially for them.

Craster started leaving his sons out because he had no use for them, girls would grow up to be wives but sons could only become threats to his little fiefdom - there is no sacrifice in that reasoning.

Disagree. Craster's entire *operation* would have been swallowed up by the Others by now if they weren't actually working together.

[redrubies]

LMAO. WTF WAS THAT?

IF WE ARE LUCKY CRASTER'S SHEEP WIL EAT VARYS AND LITTLEFINGER

[redrubies]

What about the possibility that we find out about the others with a Benjen Stark pov chapter(s) in WoW? Something like him being a hostage of the others in the lands of always winter, still alive due to them being aware of his significance as a stark (something they can sense in him) and therefore able to explain their culture to the reader

I'd like to hear from Benjen in ANY capacity. He would be the last grown male Stark. Maybe the Others WANT a Stark @Winterfell and they saw the future and knew ahead of time that they must grab-a-Stark before the Lannisters/Boltons kill them all. In the next book Benjen gets an Other's *Honor Guard* to bring him home.

[Griffin's Roost]

maybe mance poking around looking for the horn caused something.

[redrubies]

The answers we seek are found in Asshai.

*it is known*

[ummester]

The answers we seek are found in Asshai.

*it is known*

But GRRM has said this saga won't go to Asshai.

I do think the answers to Dany's lineage are in Asshai - and, though the Other's could have a cause/effect relationship with past goings on under the shadow (before there may have even been a shadow there) , I don't think the Others are from Asshai, or anything like that.

I'd just like to add a side-note/question to this.

The people of Westeros knew that a long summer was the lead to the loooong winter...why weren't they storing food in giant silos and bunkers during every harvest?? HAD THESE PEOPLE *WHOLE HUMAN RACE * NOT LEARNED ANYTHING FROM THE PAST??

Part of the moral of the saga, I think.

I've long been of the opinion that ASoIaF is somewhat of a subversion/inversion of general fantasy sagas on most levels, including the idea of good humans uniting to save the world from an otherworldly threat. I think the humans are the threat in ASoIaF, both to themselves and the world.

[Buried Treasure]

Disagree. Craster's entire *operation* would have been swallowed up by the Others by now if they weren't actually working together.

Certainly, the Other's would have taken his keep by now, I don't have any doubt about that. 'Now' is full Winter, and the Others are the dominant force beyond the Wall.

The real question is whether the Others specifically and deliberately spared Craster's keep up until the time of Gilly's childbirth/ the NW mutiny. That was in Autumn, and the Others were not fully ascendent; it was only a few months since most other wildlings abandoned their villages to join with Mance. We know that up to the time Mance called his army plently of settlements survived without attack by the Others (and without pacts with the Others), what we do not know is how long any other holdout settlements survived into Autumn - but considering beyond-the-Wall is a large area it's not unreasonable to think the Others would not bother attacking every inconsequential settlement straightaway.

I am of the opinion that our impression of how much offensive action the Others were taking in Autumn is skewed because we mostly see through the eyes of the NW. The MO of the Others towards the Wildlings is mostly described as bringing the cold and lurking round the edges of encampments (around Mance's army, and Tormunds force, and even Craster's when the NW is not visiting), that fits with them not being at full strength before Winter has fully arrived and thus not committing their full forces. They break pattern to attack the NW in force; the attack at the Fist is a full on assault, but it makes sense that they would fully commit limited force at arms if you consider that the NW are more vulnerable beyond-the-Wall than on the Wall (especially if the Others know of some magical link between NW men and the Wall).

I don't know if this has been brought up already but Craster says something interesting about the Others in ASoS. The surviving men of the Watch are back at Craster's Keep and Sam observes that, since they arrived here, there haven't been any attacks by Others or wights. Craster states that there won't be any attacks: "A godly man got no cause to fear such. I said as much to that Mance Rayder once, when he come sniffing round. He never listened, no more'n you crows with your swords and your bloody fires. That won't help you none when the white cold comes. Only the gods will help you then. You best get right with the gods."

By that point, we already know that Craster is giving up his sons to the Others - Gilly has said so, and Mormont has confirmed it. So it is possible to buy peace with the Others but that peace demands heavy sacrifices. And since no one but Craster is willing to make those sacrifices and because Wildlings and Crows are roaming through the woods, the Others are angry and try to fight back the intruders. A friend of mine actually had the theory that the Wall has been built by the Others to keep humans out of their domain; maybe that fits in here as well?

We don't that he is leaving his sons and the Others take them, we only know that he leaves the babies out.

The Craster quote you gave suggests that Craster thinks that the Others take his sons and leave him alone in return, one of the wives says something similar to Sam. Correlation isn't causation though, and this superstitious backwoods bunch might have got it wrong. The pattern of the cold & the Others coming to an encampment and anybody not within the protection of the main group dying, but the Others going away without attacking happens elsewhere without deliberate sacrifice to the Others. And the correlation itself isn't even great, because Craster would have had sons that he exposed and that were presumably taken by scavengers in the previous Winters and in Summer, years before the Others became active.

[Luddagain]

I think the start of the reawakening of the Others was abut the time Egg became King and BR went to the wall, although it might go back even further to the ARRIVAL of the Targs or to the Doom. 400 years is not a long time when you think of the 8000 year timescale. How about these:

1. The Loss of the original sword ice, which perhaps left Winterfell

2. Something about the Doom

3. When Torrhen knelt. I wonder what that band of renegade non yielding Northern sellsords is doing in Essos. Hope we meet them. Hope Arya meets them. Did Brandon Snow go with then to Essos?

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

One question I have always wondered at was why did the others choose to return when they did?

Since the Others were in the prologue of the first book,

• Dany's Dragons could not have caused them to awaken

The war of five Kings could not have caused their reawakening

the Starks becoming Wargs could not have caused it either.

Since their return seemed pretty recent in the start of the first novel,

• Robert's Rebellion probably wasnt the cause

The lack of Targs was not the cause.

The Starks becoming Lords and not Kings was probably not the cause

The Doom was probably not the cause.

So, What was relatively recent RIGHT BEFORE the start of the book?

Well, the only plausible answer I could come up with was Mance Rayder.

It seems like the rise of the Others correlates with him becoming a King. I know he was working on amassing his wildlings before the rise but didnt his army grow significantly right before the start of the novel.

We also know he was poking around looking for the Horn of Winter. Instead of the Horn of Winter could he have found the Others? Maybe the Others became Angry because Mace was crowned the King beyond the wall

Thoughts?

I don't think they ever left, I only think that for some reason, they have decided to make their presence known again. For whatever reasons, magic is becoming stronger in the world and hopefully, the WoW will finally answer some of these questions. At some point, GRRM has to start tying up these storylines and letting us in on some of these secrets. What's the point of these books if there is never any point?

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

I'm pretty sure that the horn of winter has already been found and it is safely with Sam at the Citadel. It was found during the ranging with the Old Bear with all of the dragon glass wrapped up in a Night's Watch Cloak, perhaps even Benjen's.

I think the start of the reawakening of the Others was abut the time Egg became King and BR went to the wall, although it might go back even further to the ARRIVAL of the Targs or to the Doom. 400 years is not a long time when you think of the 8000 year timescale. How about these:

1. The Loss of the original sword ice, which perhaps left Winterfell

2. Something about the Doom

3. When Torrhen knelt. I wonder what that band of renegade non yielding Northern sellsords is doing in Essos. Hope we meet them. Hope Arya meets them. Did Brandon Snow go with then to Essos?

Excuse my ignorance, but who is Brandon Snow?

[TheGreenseersOfWesteros]

Im not sure why but I believe the return of the others and the return of dragons are definitely interwoven somehow

[bens]

If there is a cause other than random/the time came, it's probably Summerhall. Fits the timeframe fairly well and was a major magical event, by far the most major in recent history but before the start of the books. I can imagine it took the Others about 40 years from "waking up" until being ready to start moving south. That timing would also fit with Bloodraven's decision to join the weirwood/stay with the Children, who may have been aware that the Others were awakening from their first stirring.

I don't think anything in particular caused the Others to awaken at this specific time, but if there was something, it was Summerhall.

I suppose if we're talking very long timescales it's possible that the arrival of the dragons in Westeros with Aegon I, or perhaps the death of the last dragon during Aegon III's reign, could be causes. At that point it's sheer random speculation, though.

[Narea]

Excuse my ignorance, but who is Brandon Snow?

We see Torrhen's bastard brother making three weirwood arrows in Winterfell through Bran's eyes.

[239JMFL34109]

i always thought that maybe the others having a better record of the seasons compared to the really bad human record keeping figured out that every X number of year there is another long night or something

[Eric_20]

It Could be that its got nothing to do of the recent wars, more like of The Others in searching of a weapon and the sudden rise because they sensed a danger that they knew was close.