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Errors in the WOIAF

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On the map of Dorne, the Tower of Joy is marked as a castle. Is this a mistake? Shouldn't it be a ruin?


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Come on, guys. Why hasn't anyone said that it is, according to the new updates in the MUSH, 'Marian Stark' instead of 'Mariah Stark' as listed in TWoIaF? Or is 'Marian' a mistake? I'm getting confused now...



Oh, and which birth order is correct for Rickon Stark's daughters by Jeyne Manderly:



Serena and Sansa, as listed in the family tree, or Sansa (b. 150) and Serena (b. 152) as listed in th MUSH?


Edited by Lord Varys

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This is probably way too meta for anyone to care about, but the section about the Lonely Light says "13 islands clustered around the Loney Light." That would make 14 in all, the 13 that surrounded the LL and the LL itself. For numerological and theory-making reasons, I am wanting to belive that was intended to say 12 islands clustered around the Lonely Light, making 13 with the lonely light and 44 Iron Islands altogether - mirroring the 44 "Nagga Bones" on Old Wyck.

It could be that Old Wyck and Great Wyck were once joined, making 44 islands that way originally, but I wondering if it wasn't supposed to 31 in the main group and 13 in the Loney Light group.

Elio is literally the only person besides George who would know about this, and I doubt he will read this, so likely this is all for naught, but I thought I would toss it out.

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Come on, guys. Why hasn't anyone said that it is, according to the new updates in the MUSH, 'Marian Stark' instead of 'Mariah Stark' as listed in TWoIaF? Or is 'Marian' a mistake? I'm getting confused now...

Oh, and which birth order is correct for Rickon Stark's daughters by Jeyne Manderly:

Serena and Sansa, as listed in the family tree, or Sansa (b. 150) and Serena (b. 152) as listed in th MUSH?

I noticed these as well and brought up the birth order issue in my Stark family tree thread. The three older daughters of Cregan and Alysanne are curiously absent as well in the MUSH, as is Cregan's daughter Lyanna (and conveniently a rather long gap exists between Edric and Barthogan...).

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I noticed these as well and brought up the birth order issue in my Stark family tree thread. The three older daughters of Cregan and Alysanne are curiously absent as well in the MUSH, as is Cregan's daughter Lyanna (and conveniently a rather long gap exists between Edric and Barthogan...).

Sounds like the MUSH simply hasn't been updated yet. ;)

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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The Blackwood section has been updated this year, the Starks section has not. Mariah and Marian have to be the same persons, have they not?


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Anybody knows whats the matter with Tyrion II and Tyrion III? The latter is described as the king who dealt with the andals, so he lived pretty early. However, Tyrion II is mentioned after him and doesnt really sound like a First Man. Can anybody clarify this? Was this topic mentioned before?

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Anybody knows whats the matter with Tyrion II and Tyrion III? The latter is described as the king who dealt with the andals, so he lived pretty early. However, Tyrion II is mentioned after him and doesnt really sound like a First Man. Can anybody clarify this? Was this topic mentioned before?

How exactly does he not sound like a First Man?

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He rules after/around the time of the transvestite Lannister king 'Lorea', and is also mentioned after Tyrion III in the story. Nothing suggests that Yandel jumps around in time during the account on the Lannister kings. If he does something like that in other sections he only does it in the early First Men era, not the later times when the dates should be much clearer and the chronology be not confused/contradictory.


Edited by Lord Varys

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He rules after/around the time of the transvestite Lannister king 'Lorea', and is also mentioned after Tyrion III in the story. Nothing suggests that Yandel jumps around in time during the account on the Lannister kings. If he does something like that in other section he only does it in the early First Men era, not the latter times when the dates should be much clearer and the chronology be not confused/contradictory.

Exactly this.

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He rules after/around the time of the transvestite Lannister king 'Lorea', and is also mentioned after Tyrion III in the story. Nothing suggests that Yandel jumps around in time during the account on the Lannister kings. If he does something like that in other sections he only does it in the early First Men era, not the later times when the dates should be much clearer and the chronology be not confused/contradictory.

Exactly this.

Ah, gotcha; I see it now. The way you worded it made it sound like the way he acted or what he did didn't sound like one of the First Men.

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I've just found an inconsistency on the maps of the kingdoms concerning the Kingsroad, south of the Neck. On the Riverlands and North maps, exiting the Neck, the Kingsroad crosses briefly the Vale before it enters the Riverlands. But on the Vale map, the Kingsroad no longer crosses the Vale, going directly from the Neck to the Riverlands west of the Vale. So which map is correct ?

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I've just found an inconsistency on the maps of the kingdoms concerning the Kingsroad, south of the Neck. On the Riverlands and North maps, exiting the Neck, the Kingsroad crosses briefly the Vale before it enters the Riverlands. But on the Vale map, the Kingsroad no longer crosses the Vale, going directly from the Neck to the Riverlands west of the Vale. So which map is correct ?

Vale map is messed up. I'd place my money on the riverlands. Saltpans is likewise in the riverlands, not the Vale.

Don't know for sure.

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Vale map is messed up. I'd place my money on the riverlands. Saltpans is likewise in the riverlands, not the Vale.

I think you're right with the Vale map. It also has the river flowing by Heart's Home (or one of the vassal stream) taking source in the Riverlands, when on the other maps the source is in the Vale.

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Vale map is messed up. I'd place my money on the riverlands. Saltpans is likewise in the riverlands, not the Vale.

Don't know for sure.

Ramsay's, in regards to your signature:

Over the centuries, the capital of the Golden Empire has moved here and there and back again a score of times, as rival warlords contended and dynasties rose and fell. The grey emperors, indigo emperors, and pearl-white emperors ruled from Yin on the shores of the Jade Sea, first and most glorious of the Yi Tish cities, but the scarlett emperors raised up a new city in the heart of the jungle and named it Si Qo the Glorious (long fallen and overgrown, it's glory lives now only in legend), whilst the purple emperor is preferred Tiqui, the many-towered city in the Western Hills, and the maroon emperors kept their martial court in Jinqui, the better to guard the frontiers of the empire against reavers from the Shadow Lands.

You got an ancient Yi Tish dynasty, not bad. Thanks for playing and better luck next time.

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Loreon 2 hosts the first tourney
Loreon 4 the Lackwit and Loreon 5, Queen Lorea were thus in Andal times.
Tyrion the Tormentor (Tyrion 2) was after Loreon 4&5.

Yet King Tyrion 3 (thus before Tyrion 2) was one who knew the Andals would win, so what gives?

Loreon2>Loreon4>Loreon5>Tyrion2>Tyrion3?
Yet Tyrion 3 was not accustomed to Andal rule, but Tyrion 2 was?

Also the Vale section says the Arryn's married Targaryen's twice, yet it is three times. Rodrick/Daella, Aemma/Viserys and Alys/Rhaegal, not just Rodrick/Daella and Aemma/Viserys.

Edited by Ramsay's Penguins

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The unabridged and preliminary Westerlands section seems to give a slightly different chronology in which Tyrion II could actually come before Tyrion III but the text in TWoIaF gives a different impression which is why Tyrion III is Tyrion I in the German edition.


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The unabridged and preliminary Westerlands section seems to give a slightly different chronology in which Tyrion II could actually come before Tyrion III but the text in TWoIaF gives a different impression which is why Tyrion III is Tyrion I in the German edition.

In the Australian version Tyrion 3 comes before Tyrion 1. It might be the British one too, but I think the Australian ones might be different to the British, it's just the cover that is the same?

Can anyone clarify, does their version have Tyrion 3 as 1, and thus before the Tormentor, Tyrion 2?

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No idea about the Australian version but my guess there would be that this is simply a spelling error. The decision to make Tyrion III Tyrion I in the German edition was to correct the implicit mistake in the chronology you listed above. Another option would have been to make Tyrion II Tyrion III and Tyrion III Tyrion II but that would have meant to mess with two Tyrion entries rather than one. And the impression I also got was that the name 'Tyrion' - like 'Loreon' after 'Queen Lorea' and Loreon the Lackwit - fell out of favor after Tyrion the Tormentor even despite the fact that this wasn't explicitly mentioned. If that's the case then it would make more sense that Tyrion the Tormentor came after the Tyrion styled as 'Tyrion III'.



But you have already laid out why it does not seem plausible that Tyrion II the Tormentor actually came before Tyrion III.


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