Light a wight tonight Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 He's observed that a bag of silver buys a man's silence for a time but a crossbow bolt buys it forever. His support among the Lords Declarant in the Vale is also based on money, more like multiple bags of golden dragons but still bought and paid for (Lynn Corbray's paid in a different coin,but he is still bought). So, how loyal are all these Lords? Do they see Lord Petyr's gold as worth their continuing support, as long as it lasts, or will they turn on him when it becomes in their best interest to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 It's more than just money. Lords will support Littlefinger as long as he can make it seem that it's in their best interest. Littlefinger has to convince each of these Lords that their continued support of him will give them what they want . Whether that is by promises of gold, power , land, revenge or threats of destruction each Lord has buttons that can be pushed to get their continued loyalty and Littlefinger will have to find those button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Waynwood is currently bound by betrothal. Belmore is bought, and the Graftons and Lynderlys are currently loyal to LF. The rest of the Arryn bannermen are likely neutral, and don't want any trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 As LF said himself, I think Royce is the only one he can never win over. The others will come in time, though they might not be super enthusiastic about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 As LF said himself, I think Royce is the only one he can never win over. The others will come in time, though they might not be super enthusiastic about it.His purported Sansa plot seems to be tailored at winning Royce (and Sansa) over once it comes to light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Wedding Cake Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I don't trust the lord's support. It was great to see Littlefinger explain his schemes before he carried them out. I can't think of any plan we've read about work after we've been told what it will be. Ned taking Cersei from power. Robb dealing with the Freys to gain passage. Jon taking the wildlings to Winterfell. Quentyn releasing the dragons. Arianne crowning Myrcella. Viserys getting a Dothraki army. Cat exchanging Jamie for Sansa and Arya. Arya returning to Robb. The successful plans keep their mystery, the rest are failures of ice and fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 LF believes people can be bought. But the Lords of the Vale value honour and loyalty. (also, they're uptight as fuck, and he's pretty much a commoner). That's why they wanted to join the Wot5K in the first place, because they wanted to back up Robb in name of Ned. Honour and loyalty are things that LF doesn't understand and underestimates: he expects the worst of people, and he believes the worst is what they are. They are not. Just because they appear to have been bought, it means that they are indeed being bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 LF believes people can be bought. But the Lords of the Vale value honour and loyalty. (also, they're uptight as fuck, and he's pretty much a commoner). That's why they wanted to join the Wot5K in the first place, because they wanted to back up Robb in name of Ned. Honour and loyalty are things that LF doesn't understand and underestimates: he expects the worst of people, and he believes the worst is what they are. They are not. Just because they appear to have been bought, it means that they are indeed being bought. expecting the worst in people is actually much smarter then expecting the best in them. Ned Stark learned that lesson the hard way.When you expect the worst you can never be fooled by their actions. Littlefinger understands the Lords of the Vale, hell he was born a Lord of the Vale and we have seen in his brief conversations with Sansa that he has them pegged pretty well and knows what each of them needs to be pushed to his side. "He put down his quill. "Redfort and Waynwood are old. One or both of them may die. Gilwood Hunter will be murdered by his brothers. Most likely by young Harlan, who arranged Lord Eon's death. In for a penny, in for a stag, I always say. Belmore is corrupt and can be bought. Templeton I shall befriend. Bronze Yohn Royce will continue to be hostile, I fear, but so long as he stands alone he is not so much a threat." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 ^Who knows. There might be a Great Vale Conspiracy going on. I have a feeling that the Royces know Sansa's there. I see the Vale Lords being much like the Northern Lords, and I can't see them being bribed into betraying the Starks for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Gulltown Arryns probably have close ties with LF as well. They have the common sense to marry merchants after all. It is also highly possible that Harlan Hunter killed his father with LF's direction and he is getting ready to kill his elder brothers too until he becomes Lord Hunter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 ^Who knows. There might be a Great Vale Conspiracy going on. I have a feeling that the Royces know Sansa's there. I see the Vale Lords being much like the Northern Lords, and I can't see them being bribed into betraying the Starks for the most part. Littlefinger saved Sansa Stark from Kings Landing . His plan is to restore the North to her (whether that is true nor not that is what he's told her) so how would they be betraying the Starks by joining him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 ^I meant betraying the Arryns. From what we heard, Jon Arryn was as loved in the Vale as Ned was in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 ^I meant betraying the Arryns. From what we heard, Jon Arryn was as loved in the Vale as Ned was in the North. Ned was also loved in the Vale. That's why they wanted to join the Wot5K. They wanted to help Ned's son, and they have now Ned's daughter. That's what LF is not foreseeing, because he believes people won't act out of loyalty when they can be bought or blackmailed instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 ^I meant betraying the Arryns. From what we heard, Jon Arryn was as loved in the Vale as Ned was in the North. I think Littlefinger will be very careful to make it seem like his actions are not a betrayal of the Arryns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 ^Who knows. There might be a Great Vale Conspiracy going on. I have a feeling that the Royces know Sansa's there. I see the Vale Lords being much like the Northern Lords, and I can't see them being bribed into betraying the Starks for the most part. I think the Royces know, but I'm not sure Nestor Royce is aligned with the Bronze Yohn - at least, until LF rejects Myranda's hand in marriage. ^I meant betraying the Arryns. From what we heard, Jon Arryn was as loved in the Vale as Ned was in the North. Technically, they did betray the Arryns when they besieged the Eyre. Nonetheless, how are the betraying the Arryns? Littlefinger has everything to loose by killing SR and if SR were to die of epilepsy (really? Other than the risk of hitting his head, SR isn't dying. He's not weak, he's spoiled) Ned was also loved in the Vale. That's why they wanted to join the Wot5K. They wanted to help Ned's son, and they have now Ned's daughter. That's what LF is not foreseeing, because he believes people won't act out of loyalty when they can be bought or blackmailed instead. The plan he tells Sansa, real or not, relies on the Vale Lords acting out of loyalty. Helping the Arryns, helping the Starks, it all boils down to accept Littlefinger's leadership. The Vale Lords, after all, have not read the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Actually, a lot of LF's plan relies on the Vale Lords accepting bribes to act in his interests rather than those of their liege Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Ned was also loved in the Vale. That's why they wanted to join the Wot5K. They wanted to help Ned's son, and they have now Ned's daughter. That's what LF is not foreseeing, because he believes people won't act out of loyalty when they can be bought or blackmailed instead. That's not true . He understands very much how people act of loyalty and he plans to use that against his enemies and allies . He understands how powerful Sansa last name is and he will use her Stark/Tully heritage to get the Vale Lords and Riverlords to do what he wants them to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Actually, a lot of LF's plan relies on the Vale Lords accepting bribes to act in his interests rather than those of their liege Lords. I do not understand . Which Lords are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 The lords he's bribed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Actually, a lot of LF's plan relies on the Vale Lords accepting bribes to act in his interests rather than those of their liege Lords. According to LF, he can control anyone if he knows what that person really wants. This is a simple and effective strategy but life is sometimes more complicated than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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