C.T. Phipps Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I was hoping we'd find out the Ironborn used to be a vast trading Empire and the whole "Iron Price" stuff was just Balon creating a cartoonish cariacture of the past.But no, they're like the Dothraki's relationship to Mongols.They've always been pathetic thieves and cowards pretedning to be kings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly of Harrenhal Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I love the ironborn. Cmon you gotta have some badassery in the story, and I understand where you're coming from, but it was only through my re read I realised how their difference in customs and nature made them so awesome imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Seriously, though, how dumb do you have to be to have a VAST FLEET OF SHIPS and somehow still be poor in a Medieval society?It's like sitting on a giant gold mine and trying to sell the rock you quarry from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLannister Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 One of my friend's favorite characters is Theon. I've also seen some people on this forum say the same thing. I've never understood how he could be someone's favorite character. I've never been able to get past his betrayal of Robb and his killing of the boys to pass them off as Bran and Rickon... Can someone explain to me why so many people like him so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sapna Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Ironborn are odd. Sometimes I think that the iron islands were made far too small for them to post a realistic threat to Westeros, but then again the British empire was huge, despite the Islands being tiny. Still the British empire went after undeveloped countries as opposed to the Ironborn attacking huge kingdoms that are at least on par with them if not more developed. I think there should be more ironborn on the mainland rather then us having to go to the islands for two books. I assume that the ironborn pay tax to the crown, but besides that they seem to have little interaction with the rest of the mainland. Asha mentions she used to go trading.The thing is the 'old way' has supposedly been outlawed for 300 years. Why would the ironborn suddenly want to revert to it. They also feel a bit cartoony because of the arrogance. Basically they need more land for their people. So Balon 'conquers' the North. Actually all he did was take three strong castles, the Northmen were still fighting. Euron's conquest of the shield islands makes more sense as they were subdued and cut off from reinforcing. I think they are basically too little too late. Euron might have been a realistic contender, but he's only appeared twice, and has sent Victarion to take Dany and the dragons? His whole plan is based around the dragonhorn and he doesn't even lead the mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Why do you even read the books if you dislike the Ironborn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Why do you even read the books if you dislike the Ironborn? Possibly because the vast majority of characters aren't Ironborn? Or by your logic if you don't like every single character and aspect of a book should you not read it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I should have used the sarcasm font. :drunk: But since so many people say that the books aren't enjoyable if you disike just one house (the Starks) I wanted to make a similiar point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Why do you even read the books if you dislike the Ironborn? Because these books are about the Starks and they actually have redeeming qualities. I should have used the sarcasm font. :drunk: But since so many people say that the books aren't enjoyable if you disike just one house (the Starks) I wanted to make a similiar point. Not just "one house." The House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimereborn Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 One of my friend's favorite characters is Theon. I've also seen some people on this forum say the same thing. I've never understood how he could be someone's favorite character. I've never been able to get past his betrayal of Robb and his killing of the boys to pass them off as Bran and Rickon... Can someone explain to me why so many people like him so much? he's flawed and has gone through a serious redemptive arc. he's been punished in unthinkable ways for what he did. he's turning into a bit of a tragic hero now. he's one of the most complex and well written characters in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 . Because these books are about the Starks and they actually have redeeming qualities. Ned's and Robb's honor is a very redeeming quality I guess if you have to fight a bloody war for their perseption of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Why do you even read the books if you dislike the Ironborn? You do kind of have a point. If you can't find something to enjoy out of Vic, Asha, Euron, Aeron and Theon then I'm not sure why you bother reading the books. They're such unique characters that you must like at least one of them. I get the feeling that some people don't like any characters who weren't in the first two books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Ned's and Robb's honor is a very redeeming quality I guess if you have to fight a bloody war for their perseption of it. Yep. those are the only two Starks. No others possibly to choose from. None at all. Your point is so valid. You do kind of have a point. If you can't find something to enjoy out of Vic, Asha, Euron, Aeron and Theon then I'm not sure why you bother reading the books. They're such unique characters that you must like at least one of them. I get the feeling that some people don't like any characters who weren't in the first two books. Because there are about 300 chapters in these books and only about 20 of them are IB characters. So I guess I can say that I like roughly 94% of the books without having to like those chapters/characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Because there are about 300 chapters in these books and only about 20 of them are IB characters. So I guess I can say that I like roughly 94% of the books without having to like those chapters/characters. I know that but my point is that Vic, Asha, Euron, Aeron and Asha are five completely different characters with completely different storylines. If you can't find something to enjoy there then you must have a very limited field of enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrio Fo-real Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 A lot of people in OUR world do things I despise and disagree with or I just plain don't understand. Your example of them raping and stealing people is the same thing the dothraki celebrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I know that but my point is that Vic, Asha, Euron, Aeron and Asha are five completely different characters with completely different storylines. heehee. Asha is completely different from Asha... I understand why people like Theon and Asha I can enjoy a little bit. But the uncles have less depth than a teaspoon and are just three different iterations of rape pirate. There's the religious lunatic rape pirate, the big dumb brute rape pirate, and the snidely whiplash one-eyed rape pirate. There's a much bigger literary spectrum to enjoy besides these five. If you can't find something to enjoy there then you must have a very limited field of enjoyment. Oh please, the IB are the not that special. The literary canon has a much broader spectrum than rape pirate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 One thing I've gathered from the Greyjoy chapters is that we're not supposed to "stand" the Ironborn. Similarly, we are, in a sense, supposed to find Quentyn/his chapters boring because he is boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Well, I think the IB would be great if we only had Theon's PoV and the Kingsmoot as a prologue/epilogue. It's fun to have a pirate culture out there as an antagonist. But I have zero interest in Aeron or Victarion other than ships headed Dany's way (which there was zero need of PoV's for), and Asha's chapters are waste of space (the only good thing was seeing more Stannis, but GRRM could have found another way IMO). She's also a bit generic in that she's supposedly super hot pirate chick but still as much of a badass as Brienne which makes zero sense. She should never have been in a direct battle, captaining a ship, fine, but fighting with axes against knights? No. It's similar to Dorne. GRRM didn't give himself enough time to make these people real primary characters, so they end up seeming pointless and paper-thin. The IB and Dornish PoV's are EXCELLENT secondary characters (like the Tyrells or Varys, or LF are great well-fleshed out 2ndary characters) and are best kept that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCBlackbird Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 One of my friend's favorite characters is Theon. I've also seen some people on this forum say the same thing. I've never understood how he could be someone's favorite character. I've never been able to get past his betrayal of Robb and his killing of the boys to pass them off as Bran and Rickon... Can someone explain to me why so many people like him so much? 1. "so many people" really? there's barely any Theon fans out there! especially considering how big a fandom asoiaf is. there's a few on this forum, there's another few on tumblr, but there's so little of us that we tend to be this small community in which we all know eachother at least by username. (I'm not counting all the people who say they think he's an interesting character or said they enjoyed his chapters, that's not enough to make you a fan of the character. especially when most of them say they still don't like him as a person) 2. I can't speak for others but Theon is my favourite character, in fact, I'm in this fandom because of him and my reasons are : he's actually a good person but he's flawed in ways that I find relatable, he's so complex and well written that I started writing an essay on him that turned into a book (it's 140 pages now and I'm not done) he goes through some extreme changes and the psychological effect it has is very interesting to me. 3. Theon had no choice in betraying robb and really those miller boys? if that's the worst he's done he's hardly a bad guy, in this universe where most of the characters have done waaaaaaaaaay worse then that. it was still a horrible thing of course, but if you dislike him for this how can you like any of the other characters ? (with the exception of sansa, davos, sam...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodorisfaclessman Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Seriously, though, how dumb do you have to be to have a VAST FLEET OF SHIPS and somehow still be poor in a Medieval society?It's like sitting on a giant gold mine and trying to sell the rock you quarry from it.To be fair we dont know how long they have had a vast fleet They may have scrapped together enough resources for one fleet, had it largely smashed in the greyjoy rebellion and been building since then.Also they dont actualy have much to trade with On the flipside however you are kinda right as we see from euron being willing to go far and wide can make you rich, and another mentions to asha that a single trip past the jade sea and back with spices can make you rich as gods.It seems strange that thy have the bottle to raid and war with close neighbours but not to reave and travel much longer journeys to essos and beyond then back........much richer pickings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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