Anything Good about the Freys?

[Lee-Sensei]

When Robb is marching to relieve Riverrun, the Freys demand a *lot* in return to let him cross the bridge and save his family.

The Mallisters, while Robb's army was marching through their land, joined up with him and asked nothing.

In my opinion, that says just about everything one could need to know.

The Freys are entitled to demand a price for help. What had the Tullys and Starks done for them to earn their loyalty?

[Blazfemur]

I guess their fertility is pretty damn impressive. Got Craster beat by miles.

[devilish]

Its so easy to be honorable when you're one of the old main families. Take the Greyjoys. They stayed neutral during the rebellion and later on they rebelled against Robert. However no one dared stripping them from their title. Same thing about the Lannisters. They fought against Aegon the Conqueror, they stayed neutral throughout the rebellion and only got involved into war when it was evident that the Mad King was doomed. Jamie killed his king, Gregor raped and butchered Elia Martell and yet, they kept their titles with Cersei marrying the king and the fruit of Lannister incest becoming king. The old top families are rarely punished for their actions. They are usually respected and any mishaps are usually quickly forgotten and forgiven.

The Freys are not part of that caste. Their wealth came from good intuition and hard work and unlike the big guys they can't afford doing mistakes. May I remind you that the Freys were looked down by the main families long before the rebellion. For example Tywin Lannister was against having his sister marrying a Frey. So can you really blame them for being hesitant in entering wars? Can you blame them for pulling the plug once Robert Stark, nephew of Hoster Tully, who spend decades ridiculing him, decided not to fulfill his end of the bargain? After all Robert was doomed with or without the Freys. The North was lost, the Boltons had already made up their mind and the Karstarks abandoned the young wolf.

I don't like the red wedding. If I was Walder I would have never accepted that Robb would be massacred under my own roof. Having said that I don't blame him for doing what he did. I am actually surprised that he didn't sided with the Lannisters immediately. Joffrey was the rightful king (rumors spread by some idiot doesn't really matter) and the Tully/Starks had taunted and humiliated him for years. At least some of the Freys have Lannister blood in them.

[Blazfemur]

i mean i guess if a pretentious little twit broke his word id be pissed off too, especially if i were originally going to be joining the northern houses with mine. so i guess his political prowess is pretty impressive

[hear me bore]

Gatehouse Ami is really nice to the stable boys.

[marsyao]

I would say Forrest Frey, the guy holplessly fall in love with Princess Rhaenyra, but his house was too lowborn to have any chance to marry into loyal family, but he gave his life to the woman he loved regardless

[Universal Sword Donor]

The Freys are entitled to demand a price for help. What had the Tullys and Starks done for them to earn their loyalty?

The starks? Nothing as there's no reason they should. As for the Tullys, well they didn't punish them for RR. Admittedly it's not a great relationship but it's a two way street. I don't have issue with the demands as much as I do the price.

The freys, some exceptions of course, are like a kid who's an asshole to everyone else and then wonders why no on likes him.

[Lee-Sensei]

The starks? Nothing as there's no reason they should. As for the Tullys, well they didn't punish them for RR. Admittedly it's not a great relationship but it's a two way street. I don't have issue with the demands as much as I do the price.

The freys, some exceptions of course, are like a kid who's an asshole to everyone else and then wonders why no on likes him.

And the others aren't assholes to theFreys? Elitists that look down on them because over 600 years ago they were petty lords of no importance? The Tully's did nothing to earn their loyalty and got nothing. They did nothing to earn their loalty for the Rebellion and got nothing.

[Blazfemur]

And the others aren't assholes to theFreys? Elitists that look down on them because over 600 years ago they were petty lords of no importance? The Tully's did nothing to earn their loyalty and got nothing. They did nothing to earn their loalty for the Rebellion and got nothing.

while im not a supporter of the freys, i certainly see their side when it came to TRW and siding with tywin

[Universal Sword Donor]

And the others aren't assholes to theFreys? Elitists that look down on them because over 600 years ago they were petty lords of no importance? The Tully's did nothing to earn their loyalty and got nothing. They did nothing to earn their loalty for the Rebellion and got nothing.

That argument would hold a lot more water, like any, if houses like Darry and Goodbrooke hadn't come without demanding compensation. Both lost lands and wealth after RR. Goodbrooke had entire villages burned by Hoster. The Darrys are still Targ loyalists. Yet they both came when called.

If anything, the Freys dealing with Tywin just shows what kind of house (or man) they are. They always want theirs to do anything.

[Lee-Sensei]

That argument would hold a lot more water, like any, if houses like Darry and Goodbrooke hadn't come without demanding compensation. Both lost lands and wealth after RR. Goodbrooke had entire villages burned by Hoster. The Darrys are still Targ loyalists. Yet they both came when called.

If anything, the Freys dealing with Tywin just shows what kind of house (or man) they are. They always want theirs to do anything.

You didn't answer the question. What did the Tullys do to earn the loyalty of House Frey.

[Darksnider05]

You didn't answer the question. What did the Tullys do to earn the loyalty of House Frey.

Not put them to the sword post RR.

[Universal Sword Donor]

You didn't answer the question. What did the Tullys do to earn the loyalty of House Frey.

They didn't punish them for their inaction in RR and they accepted their oath of fealty. Darry's lost half their lands, most of their wealth, and almost all their power. Same with Goodbrookes. If anyone has reason to complain and be niggardly sons of bitches, they would. And once again, the Darrys don't even want Robert on the throne, yet they show up at RR and do everything Hoster/Edmure asked. If the Freys didn't want to give anything, they didn't need to swear fealty.

[Lee-Sensei]

Not put them to the sword post RR.

1) That would be an incredibly disproportionate response that no one including King Robert would be likely to support.

2) What did they do before the Rebelion to earn their loyalty.

[Lee-Sensei]

They didn't punish them for their inaction in RR and they accepted their oath of fealty. Darry's lost half their lands, most of their wealth, and almost all their power. Same with Goodbrookes. If anyone has reason to complain and be niggardly sons of bitches, they would. And once again, the Darrys don't even want Robert on the throne, yet they show up at RR and do everything Hoster/Edmure asked. If the Freys didn't want to give anything, they didn't need to swear fealty.

I'm pretty sure Aegon wouldn't have accepted that.

[Universal Sword Donor]

I'm pretty sure Aegon wouldn't have accepted that.

Well then the Freys can suck it up. Their actions in ASOIAF put them just below the Tarbecks and Reynes in terms of shitty bannermen, maybe ye olde timey Manderlys if you want to toss that in.

They really had no reason to extort Robb/Edmure as they did in context of the other bannermen's behavior. None. Those bannermen had actual, massive tangible losses in lands and income, not perceived slights or insults to their honor. Frey could even have sent a token force a la Lady Dustin. He didn't. Yet, once again, Raymun Darry shows up with all his:

Ser Raymun Darry spoke up. “Ser Edmure had summoned me to Riverrun with all my strength.I was camped across the river from his walls, awaiting his commands, when the word reached me.

And that's coming from a man who, under the current regime, has had half his land seized, most of his wealth taken, and still pines for the toppling of King Robert.

[Lee-Sensei]

Well then the Freys can suck it up. Their actions in ASOIAF put them just below the Tarbecks and Reynes in terms of shitty bannermen, maybe ye olde timey Manderlys if you want to toss that in.

They really had no reason to extort Robb/Edmure as they did in context of the other bannermen's behavior. None. Those bannermen had actual, massive tangible losses in lands and income, not perceived slights or insults to their honor. Frey could even have sent a token force a la Lady Dustin. He didn't. Yet, once again, Raymun Darry shows up with all his:

Ser Raymun Darry spoke up. “Ser Edmure had summoned me to Riverrun with all my strength.I was camped across the river from his walls, awaiting his commands, when the word reached me.

And that's coming from a man who, under the current regime, has had half his land seized, most of his wealth taken, and still pines for the toppling of King Robert.

Then the Tullys can suck it up. The Freys weren't like the Reynes and the Tarbecks. Tytos Lannister was a overly generous and they walked all overhim. Hosyer on the other hand, disrespected the Freys all of the time.

So what? The Freys are the Tully's mosy powerful vannermen. If they want them to beloal they should have been more respectful.

[Jasta11]

Their castle is pretty sweet.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Then the Tullys can suck it up. The Freys weren't like the Reynes and the Tarbecks. Tytos Lannister was a overly generous and they walked all overhim. Hosyer on the other hand, disrespected the Freys all of the time.

So what? The Freys are the Tully's mosy powerful vannermen. If they want them to beloal they should have been more respectful.

What is there to suck up? If the Tullys don't get anything from the Freys, they aren't the ones breaking the oath of fealty. You can argue king vs lord oaths, but when people who actively hate you (a la Darry) and people who you punished severely show up, the Freys come up short every time.

Perceived slight vs Tangible losses. Freys are greedy. I don't actually have much of an issue with asking for something. It's critical to let Robb and his forces cross. It should have been more of a "don't forget this" than a "You gotta pay the troll toll". The Freys haven't actually suffered any losses of anything but pride under Hoster, and that was mostly Walder's own doing. Notice how Edmure is still unmarried during the Wo5K. He's banging hookers.

[Lee-Sensei]

What is there to suck up? If the Tullys don't get anything from the Freys, they aren't the ones breaking the oath of fealty. You can argue king vs lord oaths, but when people who actively hate you (a la Darry) and people who you punished severely show up, the Freys come up short every time.

Perceived slight vs Tangible losses. Freys are greedy. I don't actually have much of an issue with asking for something. It's critical to let Robb and his forces cross. It should have been more of a "don't forget this" than a "You gotta pay the troll toll".

The fact that their most powerful vassal isn't loyal because they've been given no right to be loyal.

My Lord father once said that Walder Frey was the only Lord who could field an army from his britches. It seems he mocked the Freys a lot. Cat also says that the Freys were looked down on because they're fairly new.