Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Myrcella, because I just don't see GRRM putting her through yet another queenmaking plot. It would be seriously repetitive, in my opinion So will be the second Dance of the Dragons (not only a repeat of the Dance of the Dragons, but also of the Dance of the Stags in ACOK). If GRRM still plans that to happen, then he isn't avert to repetitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Corporal Underpants Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Nah, it's only repetitive if it ends the same. If the first dance of the dragons was the beginning of the end, and the second is a new beginning then it's not repetition, it's resolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaesterMan Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Well, there's die, and then there's "die" (sic)--Catelyn went to her grave thinking Bran and Rickon were dead, and we know Bran isn't, and haven't heard that Rickon's dead, either. Cersei could be executed or commit suicide after hearing that Myrcella has been "killed" in Dorne and after Tommen does a Tyrek Lannister and goes "missing and presumed dead" after a battle or another riot or some such. So, the children would "die" before Cersei actually does, but still be alive. And I like both of them, so I hope they both survive. Not all heirs are always slaughtered in conflicts--the Wars of the Roses left various Mortimers alive, also descendants of various Lancaster and York daughters--and all in theory had rights to the throne, some before Henry VII, the ultimate victor (though the Tudors did start stamping out York descendants over the next sixty years). Here's a thought. I wonder if they'd try to marry Myrcella to Jon and Tommen to Daenerys, if they all survive? If Dany is meant to be Henry VII Tudor come back from France to claim the English throne from Richard III in 1485, well Henry married a surviving heir of a rival royal house (Princess Elizabeth of York), and if Martin chooses to be literal, then Dany will too, Jon or Tommen most likely, Rickon, Willas, or Loras less likely, or Theon or Robert Arryn (not at all likely). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turin Stark Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Does Tommen even have to die to lose his throne? There have been Kings that lost their crowns without being killed. If the Lannisters were defeated and to lose the crown they wouldn't have any powerful claims anyway. Robert's victory was by conquest not by inheritance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Corporal Underpants Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Does Tommen even have to die to lose his throne? There have been Kings that lost their crowns without being killed. If the Lannisters were defeated and to lose the crown they wouldn't have any powerful claims anyway. Robert's victory was by conquest not by inheritance Even if by conquest, you still need to kill off the other claimants soas to not give your enemies a name to rally round. Tommen is toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bironic Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Even if by conquest, you still need to kill off the other claimants soas to not give your enemies a name to rally round. Tommen is toast. Not necessarily: You have the options to imprison them (like Daemon II Blackfyre) or send them to the Wall (like Aemon Targaryen, Brynden Bloodraven, Aegor Bitterstell, although with the latter it didn't work), make them a Kingsguard knight, a maester, a septon/septa, a silent sister, or a eunuch. Or marry them to your own heir. Death is just the safest/easiest way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Corporal Underpants Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Not necessarily: You have the options to imprison them (like Daemon II Blackfyre) or send them to the Wall (like Aemon Targaryen, Brynden Bloodraven, Aegor Bitterstell, although with the latter it didn't work), make them a Kingsguard knight, a maester, a septon/septa, a silent sister, or a eunuch. Or marry them to your own heir. Death is just the safest/easiest way. True, true. I guess I was just skipping the potentially troublesome options in my head. I guess it depends on who is doing the removal from power as to which option happens. I could see dany/jon being merciful enough to leave him alive, but I don't envision him lasting long enough for that. connington would probably not want him killed either, but I don't know that the choice would be his. (edditd fur spllign) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Well, there's die, and then there's "die" (sic)--Catelyn went to her grave thinking Bran and Rickon were dead, and we know Bran isn't, and haven't heard that Rickon's dead, either. Cersei could be executed or commit suicide after hearing that Myrcella has been "killed" in Dorne and after Tommen does a Tyrek Lannister and goes "missing and presumed dead" after a battle or another riot or some such. So, the children would "die" before Cersei actually does, but still be alive. I could see this, definitely. Another thing that's come to mind is, what if some scenario arose where Cersei herself pretended the kids were dead to protect them? It would have to be dire straits indeed, since that would negate any claim to the throne she herself might have, but IIRC the line was "gold will be their shrouds," not "they will die." So fake funeral maybe, and then only too late does Cersei realize she's fulfilled the prophecy herself.(I also say this because I think it would be kind of narrative overkill to kill Myrcella after already disfiguring her. Not that GRRM can't be that twisted, obviously, but that if he needed her dead, why not kill her in the attack where he had her injured instead? If he needed her crowned first to meet the prophecy, the Dornish could have actually gotten a crown onto her head before the attack. It just seems a little redundant, like someone said earlier, to do the queenmaking/getting attacked thing again with her.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_King_in_the_South Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Maggy said Tommen will die first. Also Trant was picking up myrcella last i checked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shastada Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 If Myrcella and Tommen both die, wouldn't Stannis technically be the 'rightful' heir finally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 If Myrcella and Tommen both die, wouldn't Stannis technically be the 'rightful' heir finally. You mean, if he stepped up and claimed the throne as King Tommen's next of kin and heir? By Jove, I think you're right! I'd love to see that happen. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A horsefaced girl Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I don't actually think Maggy The Frogs prophecy says they die. I won't be surprised if they live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sielk Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 If Myrcella and Tommen both die, wouldn't Stannis technically be the 'rightful' heir finally. But only if the Baratheons win. And I (and most others) think that's not very likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liaraeyne Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 If Myrcella and Tommen both die, wouldn't Stannis technically be the 'rightful' heir finally. That would be awesome. I'd love to see how Cersei and the council would react to that. But I think that won't happen; the Tyrell family is too shrewd. If Tommen would die before he consumnates his marriage or fails to knock Margaery up, Margaery will fuck any other man untill she's pregnant and claim the child is Tommen's. Margaery would subsequently rule as queen regent until the child comes of age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry the Hair Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 My money is on Tommen, he has waaay too much crazy around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A horsefaced girl Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 If Myrcella and Tommen both die, wouldn't Stannis technically be the 'rightful' heir finally. Wasn't Stannis stripped of titles and rights and condemned as a traitor by the small council? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Vale Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Really interested in the the line of succession going into the Winds of Winter, If Tommen was to die the ruler of the Iron Throne would be a female, though I believe that Dany would be the first female to gain the throne over Myrcella. So simple question, do you guys believe Myrcella or Tommen will die first?Actualy, Stannis would then innherith the throne, as the innheritance Laws were changed after the dance of the dragons, so A female culd only innherit the throne if there were no living males that could innherit and Stannis can so i am guesing myrcella would die first, but i believe that she and tomen will survive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Tommen will be the next to die ... perhaps in Winds, if the story manages to advance that far. Myrcella died in Book 4, after Darkstar sliced her with his poisoned blade. Doran covered up her death, using Rosamund as a proxy. This is of course merely a delaying tactic, as he scrambles for the element of surprise in the inevitable war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Myrcella died in Book 4, after Darkstar sliced her with his poisoned blade. Doran covered up her death, using Rosamund as a proxy. This is of course merely a delaying tactic, as he scrambles for the element of surprise in the inevitable war. I'm pretty sure people would have noticed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Corporal Underpants Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Actualy, Stannis would then innherith the throne, as the innheritance Laws were changed after the dance of the dragons, so A female culd only innherit the throne if there were no living males that could innherit and Stannis can so i am guesing myrcella would die first, but i believe that she and tomen will survive I believe the inheritance laws state (and I paraphrase): he who sits the throne, rules. Tommen is, sadly, plot fodder; Myrcella will likely survive as a pawn for Dorne. Other, more forceful, more worthy, more able claimants will ultimately sit the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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