Wow, I never noticed that, v. 9

[haramune]

The Night's watch aren't as 'un-judging' as people say, almost all the leaders are knights, nobles or noble born bastards, even Benjen Stark is first ranger even though everyone seems pretty adamant that Qhorin Halfhand is the best ranger alive

[RumHam]

The Night's watch aren't as 'un-judging' as people say, almost all the leaders are knights, nobles or noble born bastards, even Benjen Stark is first ranger even though everyone seems pretty adamant that Qhorin Halfhand is the best ranger alive

Yeah, and Waymar had no business heading that ranging in the prologue.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I noticed a while back in my latest reread that Reznak squealed with fear or something like that in Dance when Dany considered striking Meereen for the west. I am pretty confident that Reznak is the perfumed seneschal seeking to use Dany to further his interests in Meereen. He is clearly aligned with Hizdar. And Galazza is too. I think most of us have believed from the get go that the trio were the behind the Sons of the Harpy to drive Dany out. But I am convinced that the three are just seeking to use Dany to further their own interests. Hizdar's interest is obvious, as is Reznak's. The Grace's interest is much less so. But I am convinced that the trio were employing the Sons of the Harpy to pressure Dany into concessions, not to drive her out.

So I noticed this exchanged in Daenerys VI, Dance...

He kissed her hand and said, "Daenerys, my queen, I will gladly wash you from head to heel if that is what I must do to be your king and consort."

"To be my king and consort, you need only bring me peace. Skahaz tells me you have had messages of late."

"I have." Hizdahr crossed his long legs. He looked pleased with himself. "Yunkai will give us peace, but for a price. The disruption of the slave trade has caused great injury throughout the civilized world. Yunkai and her allies will require an indemnity of us, to be paid in gold and gem-stones."

Gold and gems were easy. "What else?"

"The Yunkai'i will resume slaving, as before. Astapor will be rebuilt, as a slave city. You will not interfere."

"The Yunkai'i resumed their slaving before I was two leagues from their city. Did I turn back? King Cleon begged me to join with him against them, and I turned a deaf ear to his pleas. I want no war with Yunkai. How many times must I say it? What promises do they require?"

"Ah, there is the thorn in the bower, my queen," said Hizdahr zo Loraq. "Sad to say, Yunkai has no faith in your promises. They keep plucking the same string on the harp, about some envoy that your dragons set on fire."

"Only his tokar was burned," said Dany scornfully. "Be that as it may, they do not trust you. The men of New Ghis feel the same. Words are wind, as you yourself have so oft said. No words of yours will secure this peace for Meereen. Your foes require deeds. They would see us wed, and they would see me crowned as king, to rule beside you."

Hizdahr starts out saying he only wants to be her king and consort, but he ends by saying that Yunkai will only give her peace if Daenerys crowns him to rule by her side. Once again he's using the threat of force by one of his allies to manipulate her into concessions.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I think Jaime is Bran's golden, armored shadow--without question...

There were shadows all around them. One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

Bran III, Game

The sow had a sweeter temper than some horses he had ridden. Patient and sure-footed, she accepted Tyrion with hardly a squeal when he clambered onto her back, and remained motionless as he reached for shield and lance. Yet when he gathered up her reins and pressed his feet into her side, she moved at once. Her name was Pretty, short for Pretty Pig, and she had been trained to saddle and bridle since she was apiglet. The painted wooden armor clattered as Pretty trotted across the deck. Tyrion's armpits were prickly with perspiration, and a bead of sweat was trickling down his scar beneath the oversized, ill-fitting helm, yet for one absurd moment he felt almost like Jaime, riding out onto a tourney field with lance in hand, his golden armor flashing in the sun.

Tyrion IX, Dance

[RumHam]

Okensheild castle is not on Okenshield island! My mind is blown.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Black Balaq is a Summer Islander serving as a high officer in the Golden Company. The Ebon Prince won his fortune leading a mercenary company in the Disputed Lands before joing the Band of Nine. A silver stag says they're related.

[GallowsKnight]

Yeah, and Waymar had no business heading that ranging in the prologue.

I disagree 100%

That ranging was a small fry expedition. A perfect safe mission to give a promising young leader experience beyond the wall. Find the wildling raiders. Presumably slaughter them and return home.

It's not his fault that an ancient horror never seen in thousands of years chose that day to attack them.

The Night's watch aren't as 'un-judging' as people say, almost all the leaders are knights, nobles or noble born bastards, even Benjen Stark is first ranger even though everyone seems pretty adamant that Qhorin Halfhand is the best ranger alive

Nobles and knights have significant advantages over their common brothers that make them perfect for command. Their entire life is essentially officer training.

Qorin Halfhand was probably the best ranger. But it's likely he sucked at all the other work Benjen would do. Reading, analyzing and sending reports (can Qoirin even read?). As well as the political side of begging for supplies from other houses. It's likely Benjen was going to take the Old Bear's job when he died.

The Night's watch IS a meritocracy. It's just Nobles have better merits, they usually can fight better, have better physical health and have important background education.

[RumHam]

I disagree 100%

Well Mormont agrees with me :P

I sent Benjen Stark to search after Yohn Royce’s son, lost on his first ranging. The Royce boy was green as summer grass, yet he insisted on the honor of his own command, saying it was his due as a knight. I did not wish to offend his lord father, so I yielded. I sent him out with two men I deemed as good as any in the Watch. More fool.”

Don't get me wrong, the guy caught a rough break. I'm sure he could have handled some wildlings. I'm just saying it's a clear example of the watch taking social status into account.

[LittleMissTyrell]

I noticed that in AFFC Cersei is having Dinner at one part with Falyse Stokeworth and I was like did she just say she hated her? just she has dinner with people she hates like its weird.

[Jon Snows Left sock]

I know it's from the show but this always made me smile:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOzJYE8L7fk

which leads to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=889wMw6xSkE#t=62

[GallowsKnight]

Well Mormont agrees with me :P

Don't get me wrong, the guy caught a rough break. I'm sure he could have handled some wildlings. I'm just saying it's a clear example of the watch taking social status into account.

Mormont doesn't have the benefit of actually knowing what happened there. All he knows is that Waymer went out and never came back.

We know that they were side-swiped by Others. No other Ranger, not Qorin or Benjen could have done better than Waymer once that happened. The real underachiever is Gared. Will and Waymer give their lives to get him back, then he goes and deserts making it all worthless.

I'm not disagreeing that it's taking social status into account. But here Social Status = Martial Competency and superior education. This isn't like giving someone an office promotion because their dad's a senator. Waymer has trained since he was a little boy to kill men, command men and be a soldier.

[cocoalover1956]

It took me forever to realize that Loras wanting to join the party to execute Gregor Clegane wasn't just glory-seeking. Gregor had tried to kill him during the Hand's tourney.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Cousin Ronald was permitted to retain his castle and his head, but he lost his lordship, thereafter being merely the Knight of Griffin's Roost, and nine-tenths of his lands were taken from him and parceled out to neighbor lords who had supported Robert's claim.

The Griffin Reborn

Maybe those Storm Lords won't be eager to back Aegon.

So, is JonCon gonna pull the trigger?

Though Ser Ronnet was indeed off north somewhere with Jaime Lannister, Griffin's Roost was not quite bereft of griffins. Amongst the prisoners were Ronnet's younger brother Raymund, his sister Alynne, and his natural son, a fierce red-haired boy they called Ronald Storm. All would make for useful hostages if and when Red Ronnet should return to try and take back the castle that his father had stolen. Connington ordered them confined to the west tower, under guard. The girl began to cry at that, and the bastard boy tried to bite the spearman closest to him. "Stop it, the both of you," he snapped at them. "No harm will come to any of you unless Red Ronnet proves an utter fool."

The Griffin Reborn

"I am no traitor," the Knight of Griffin's Roost declared. "I am King Tommen's man, and yours."

A steady drip-drip-drip punctuated his words, as snowmelt ran off his cloak to puddle on the floor. The snow had been falling on King's Landing most of the night; outside the drifts were ankle deep. Ser Kevan Lannister pulled his cloak about himself more closely. "So you say, ser. Words are wind."

"Then let me prove the truth of them with my sword." The light of the torches made a fiery blaze of Ronnet Connington's long red hair and beard. "Send me against my uncle, and I will bring you back his head, and the head of this false dragon too."

Epilogue, Dance

[the Scorpion Knight]

The Griffin Reborn

Maybe those Storm Lords won't be eager to back Aegon.

So, is JonCon gonna pull the trigger?

The Griffin Reborn

Epilogue, Dance

you're forgetting the part where randyll suggests to send ronnet to the wall

[Jon Weirgaryen]

The Griffin Reborn

Maybe those Storm Lords won't be eager to back Aegon.

Probably not, if you look at it from that angle... But Jon Connington may in all probability already have vanquished some of their neighboring holdfasts and taken their families hostage, I'd imagine ...and rethink it.

[HexMachina]

Mormont doesn't have the benefit of actually knowing what happened there. All he knows is that Waymer went out and never came back.

We know that they were side-swiped by Others. No other Ranger, not Qorin or Benjen could have done better than Waymer once that happened. The real underachiever is Gared. Will and Waymer give their lives to get him back, then he goes and deserts making it all worthless.

I'm not disagreeing that it's taking social status into account. But here Social Status = Martial Competency and superior education. This isn't like giving someone an office promotion because their dad's a senator. Waymer has trained since he was a little boy to kill men, command men and be a soldier.

What do you mean they risked his lives to get him back? Gared had come with them from the Wall, and was the one sensible and experienced enough to urge them to turn back.

[Poppa Chase]

What do you mean they risked his lives to get him back? Gared had come with them from the Wall, and was the one sensible and experienced enough to urge them to turn back.

They died for nothing because he didn't report their findings to Castle Black.

[haramune]

Nobles and knights have significant advantages over their common brothers that make them perfect for command. Their entire life is essentially officer training.

Qorin Halfhand was probably the best ranger. But it's likely he sucked at all the other work Benjen would do. Reading, analyzing and sending reports (can Qoirin even read?). As well as the political side of begging for supplies from other houses. It's likely Benjen was going to take the Old Bear's job when he died.

The Night's watch IS a meritocracy. It's just Nobles have better merits, they usually can fight better, have better physical health and have important background education.

I doubt it, maybe the occasional one like Jeor Mormont who has been groomed for command and then even lead house Mormont likely for decades would have more experience leading people but the majority of highborns are just better trained fighters who can read & write

I don't think it's ever said what the first ranger's daily tasks are, I'd imagine it would be a lot of training new rangers in fighting and survival but when it comes to reading and writing, most if not all lords (Including Mormont) often get someone else to read and write their letters in and out,

Also being a third son I don't imagine Benjen would have ever been groomed for command, even Ned wasn't groomed for command of the north, most of the characters with surnames at the wall had little to no chance of inheriting (i.e. bastards and 2nd +sons)

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Also being a third son I don't imagine Benjen would have ever been groomed for command, even Ned wasn't groomed for command of the north, most of the characters with surnames at the wall had little to no chance of inheriting (i.e. bastards and 2nd +sons)

That may be wrong. We learn from Jon that he and Robb had been training to shout at each other from far away places in Winterfell and Ned tells Bran he will once command a holdfast of his own. So latest generation Ned's children are being trained for leading and battle.

If Ned's and previous generations were also meant to be leaders (other Stark's have been sent to the wall), then it may even be the rule, not the exception...

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

If Cersei is the boar's shadow, then a foreshadowing that Cersei could eventually come to threathen Brienne's life?

Maybe the shadow of a boar represents death by hubris?

Two people are killed by boars in the series; Robert and Barsena Blackhair (the pit fighter). Both were killed because they did something dumb while challenging the boar--Robert was drinking while hunting, Barsena got too close just to show off for the crowd.

Brienne avoids a potential death-by-hubris when she decided to take her "magic" sword instead of just her regular sword to the confrontation at Crackclaw Point.

Not sure what the sparrows and fox represent, though. Sparrows might be begging brothers...no idea about the fox. I don't think any character has actually been compared to a fox. Hm. Someone Brienne has yet to meet?