adiman83 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 This was probably mentioned before but it is one of my favorite hypotheses. The idea is that everybody believed that Rhaego was supposed to be The Stallion Who Mounts the World and that included the Dothraki and the Lhazareen. But what if Dany was the one in the prophecy all along, and not her son? There are several clues in the text regarding this. The first one was a line that was mentioned during her time in Vaes Dothrak: "The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid. 'The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world'." Why would one of the dosh khaleen be afraid of Dany? As far as I'm concerned, the only reason was the prophecy itself. Probably the "lord" the old woman saw was her from the beginning but, because the Dothraki have a highly patriarchal culture, she couldn't possibly imagine that the tribes would be united and ruled by a woman so she naturally assumed the prophecy was about Rhaego. Or she lied knowing that the khals will never accept a woman as their "messiah". The last part in there refers to the prince in present tense (the prince IS riding) so that also might suggest that whoever the stallion is, he/she is already there. Why would they talk about an unborn baby by using present tense? A second interesting clue was one of the "Daughter of death" prophecies: "Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed." The way this is formulated doesn't suggest Dany joining the dosh khaleen (like she was supposed to), it shows submission and fear (shivering). In another context, the crones would have no reason to kneel before her with their heads bowed. The last thing that almost settled it for me was some things GRRM said in an interview. He said that in the next books Dany is coming home and, also, the Dothraki will come back "in a big way". Now, without Dany as their collective leader, they serve no purpose in the story and there would be no reason for them to make a big comeback. Any ideas? --------------------------------------------------------------- Edit: In the same GoT chapter, the Dothraki crones say "Fierce as a storm this prince will be." I see that as a direct reference to her (nick)name: Stormborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lykaios Wolfsheart Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I like this idea! Very well thought out, and good supporting evidence. It would certainly make Dany a much bigger player all of a sudden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Well, its a good theory and it was mine at first, however the simple point was made a while back that Dany is not a stallion, she is not a mount or anything that would be referred to metaphorically that way. However Drogon, being a mount, could be referred to as a stallion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brandon Badwater Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Well, its a good theory and it was mine at first, however the simple point was made a while back that Dany is not a stallion, she is not a mount or anything that would be referred to metaphorically that way. However Drogon, being a mount, could be referred to as a stallion. By swapping sexual positions with Khal Drogo she turns from being mounted by the stallion to the stallion that mounts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendubz Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 This is very well thought out, and I would lean towards it being correct, but what I've noticed is that nobody seems to be taking it literally. The Stallion who mounts the world. Very specific, not just any old horse, it's a stallion. So inevitably I decided to check to see if any House crests have a Stallion. They do. Or rather, one does. MAY I PRESENT JONOS BRACKEN: THE STALLION WHO MOUNTS THE WORLD. Yes I know it's a long shot, especially as he hasn't had a POV, but he has appeared in (and survived) all 5 books, and the Bracken's enemies are the Blackwoods. What is BR? Half Blackwood + seemingly evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiman83 Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Well, its a good theory and it was mine at first, however the simple point was made a while back that Dany is not a stallion, she is not a mount or anything that would be referred to metaphorically that way. However Drogon, being a mount, could be referred to as a stallion. She's not a stallion but that word could have a different meaning in that context. We know that the Dothraki are 1 - a male driven culture; and 2 - a semi-nomadic horse culture. So in this context Stallion might have the meaning of "leader". I could see the Dothraki calling their leaders "stallion". And by this point I think we agree that Dany is not technically a khaleesi, she's a khal because she does rule over a (very small) khalasar ... with blood riders and everything. Even if she (for now) has very few Dothraki in her command, she still is a horselord. She even has bells in her braid for each of her victories. On the same page, I don't really see Drogon as the Stallion Who Mounts the World because the Dothraki don't follow the rider, not the ride. But it does give her an extra advantage in front of the Dothraki because she now rides the most powerful "ride" anybone can possibly have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisch Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 The last thing that almost settled it for me was some things GRRM said in an interview. He said that in the next books Dany is coming home and, also, the Dothraki will come back "in a big way". Dammit. A fair stab at a theory, but I confess I don't know that there's all that much to the two quotes you pulled. The old woman could've just been afraid at the thought of a brutal conqueror who enslaves all lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Stallion doesn't discount it in the same way that Aemon said; they never looked for a female in their prophecies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I never thought of it this way but Dany could be the Stallion and AA or the PtwP all together or possibly Jon could be one of AA or the PtwP and Dany the other Dany as the Stallion makes sense especially with the way it seems like shes about to gain the allegiance of the Dothraki, (she rides a dragon so they will bow to her as the best 'rider'), all the slaves and red priests on her way back to westeros etc. She is in the process of taking over everything on her way back to the iron throne and battle with the others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiman83 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 I never thought of it this way but Dany could be the Stallion and AA or the PtwP all together or possibly Jon could be one of AA or the PtwP and Dany the other Dany as the Stallion makes sense especially with the way it seems like shes about to gain the allegiance of the Dothraki, (she rides a dragon so they will bow to her as the best 'rider'), all the slaves and red priests on her way back to westeros etc. She is in the process of taking over everything on her way back to the iron throne and battle with the others She did remember who she really is in her last DwD chapter, she's The Dragon and dragons don't plant trees. And I'm pretty sure in the next books she'll be more of a conqueror and not the do-gooder she's tried so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Prophecies are tricksy, but yes I would say it is her on Drogon, they together are the Stallion. But OP, I think you are dead on the money about the Dothraki coming back in a big way due to Dany. It is my personal belief (along with many others) that Dany and Drogon will be headed to Vaes Dothrak soon. Where the crones will all bow down to her (mainly due to the dragon she is riding) but also because they have heard of her hatching the eggs in the pyre, surviving the red waste and (sort of) conquering SB. I think the way she will change the Dothraki is at Vaes Dothrak she will make the crones understand that slavery and collecting people like chattle for slaves is no longer acceptable and that the Dothraki must change their ways. That SB is about to burn and there will no longer be Great Masters left to buy the slaves that the Dothraki round-up. They have plenty of other means and ways to make their lives without using slavery as a source of trading or 'income' . If you re-read Dany's chapters in GOT the Dothraki travel a very long way from Pentos to Vaes Dothrak and never once stop to sack any villages or collect any slaves and everything was fine. They are perfectly able to live of the land, to trade with cities, to war with other tribes (or whatever testosterone action they need to do) without 'needing' to be involved with the slave trade. Dany will show them, and the crones will bow down to her and listen and since the Dosh Khaleen are the only people or rules the Khal's follow........everything will eventually fall in line and she will be able to stop the biggest suppliers of slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafkeeper Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Dany is a hyena? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiman83 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 It is my personal belief (along with many others) that Dany and Drogon will be headed to Vaes Dothrak soon. [...] They are perfectly able to live of the land, to trade with cities, to war with other tribes (or whatever testosterone action they need to do) without 'needing' to be involved with the slave trade. Dany will show them, and the crones will bow down to her and listen and since the Dosh Khaleen are the only people or rules the Khal's follow That is not only your personal belief. The Lands of Ice and Fire also has a world map with the journeys of all the (important) characters. There we can clearly see that Dany (at the end of ADwD) is facing directly towards Vaes Dothrak. About the crones, if Dany decides to change the Dothraki way, I don't think she'll give them a choice. At the moment, after the Meereen fiasco, she seems to take a "Aegon I" mindset: follow my way or burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I think it's Drogon. He's her son after all, isn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I think it's Drogon. He's her son after all, isn't he? Drogon is an animal. He can't lead a group of people. Thinking that Drogon is the stallion that mounts the world is one of the most racist/orientalist theories floating about in this fandom, and it's obviously pretty sexist too. Take a look at the prophecy and then switch the "he" pronouns to "she", and it quite clearly references Daenerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 That is not only your personal belief. The Lands of Ice and Fire also has a world map with the journeys of all the (important) characters. There we can clearly see that Dany (at the end of ADwD) is facing directly towards Vaes Dothrak. About the crones, if Dany decides to change the Dothraki way, I don't think she'll give them a choice. At the moment, after the Meereen fiasco, she seems to take a "Aegon I" mindset: follow my way or burn. Ok...... she is facing that direction? like all day long her body is pointed northeast? Not true at all, in her last chapter she spends most of it walking directly away from Vaes Dothrak, not towards it. Or do you mean if she continues to travel in a perfectly straight line from Meereen? That is an odd way to look at someones journey, to base where they are going from the line they leave in the sand. Many people change direction all the time. She went straight south to Qarth through the Red Waste then completely changed direction and headed west into Slaver's Bay, so I really don't understand the point you are making. She could easily end up going back to SB, or to Mantarys, now that she has a dragon under her, she could go absolutely anywhere. As I said, myself and many others believe she is headed towards Vaes Dothrak. I came to that conclusion long before the Map book was printed. And in this situation, if she can end the gathering of slaves by saying "follow me or burn", then she will once again be in the right by following her own instincts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreign675 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Drogon is an animal. He can't lead a group of people. No, but he can push flocks of men in some direction, frightening the people with fire and blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiman83 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Ok...... she is facing that direction? like all day long her body is pointed northeast? Not true at all, in her last chapter she spends most of it walking directly away from Vaes Dothrak, not towards it. Or do you mean if she continues to travel in a perfectly straight line from Meereen? That is an odd way to look at someones journey, to base where they are going from the line they leave in the sand. Many people change direction all the time. She went straight south to Qarth through the Red Waste then completely changed direction and headed west into Slaver's Bay, so I really don't understand the point you are making. She could easily end up going back to SB, or to Mantarys, now that she has a dragon under her, she could go absolutely anywhere. As I said, myself and many others believe she is headed towards Vaes Dothrak. I came to that conclusion long before the Map book was printed. And in this situation, if she can end the gathering of slaves by saying "follow me or burn", then she will once again be in the right by following her own instincts. What I meant was that her current path at the end of ADwD would take her to Vaes Dothrak. And in her last chapter she only THOUGHT she was going towards Meereen but she wasn't sure because her only "compass" was a spring that she hoped will flow towards Skahazadhan (the river next to Meereen). Here, this is the map: http://www.fantasticmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Journeys.jpg Just below the word DOTHRAKI on the map, you will see an arrow pointing slightly towards NE. That is Dany's journey after she escaped Meereen on Drogon's back. Vaes Dothrak is the city just above the word SEA. As you see, the arrow is pointing in its direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Yeah I've seen it, I just thought she was going there before I saw it is all. It makes the most sense to her story. She has to stop the Dothraki from their slave collecting ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 No, but he can push flocks of men in some direction, frightening the people with fire and blood. He'll only do this for Daenerys. Yeah I've seen it, I just thought she was going there before I saw it is all. It makes the most sense to her story. She has to stop the Dothraki from their slave collecting ways. I think their point was that Dany going to Vaes Dothrak is not really anyone's "personal belief" - it's practically a certainty at this point, considering what the map shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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