Harry the Hair Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I actually don't think he changed much for Sansa. She did pick the Lannisters over her own family which she regretted later on. She did end up married to a Lannister. The only thing she's really missing right now is a child that would be able to inherit the Iron throne... Which might be something LF is going to take care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_Warged Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 The original story leak said something about Sansa choosing the Lannisters over the Starks and that would have had major bad consequences for her. I think she was originally going to die. Kinda frustrated that my fav character was doomed for death in the original story as well. I'll never understand why all of his siblings are generally more popular than he is (though I do enjoy his siblings) I love what GRRM decided to do with Jaime even more after hearing about original plans for Jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwydden Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I actually don't think he changed much for Sansa. She did pick the Lannisters over her own family which she regretted later on. She did end up married to a Lannister. The only thing she's really missing right now is a child that would be able to inherit the Iron throne... Which might be something LF is going to take care of. I don't recall her picking the Lannisters over her own family, and the marriage was completely against her will. That changes the whole context. But frankly, I think using this draft as any indication of what the actual story will be is a fool's errand. The original story leak said something about Sansa choosing the Lannisters over the Starks and that would have had major bad consequences for her. I think she was originally going to die. Kinda frustrated that my fav character was doomed for death in the original story as well. I'll never understand why all of his siblings are generally more popular than he is (though I do enjoy his siblings) Obviously, because PoV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_Warged Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I actually don't think he changed much for Sansa. She did pick the Lannisters over her own family which she regretted later on. She did end up married to a Lannister. The only thing she's really missing right now is a child that would be able to inherit the Iron throne... Which might be something LF is going to take care of. I see what you mean, but I think some things definitely changed. The way the original draft talks about it, it sounds like Sansa had Red Wedding-level consequences coming her way for choosing the Lannisters over her family in the original story idea and while the final books could prove me wrong, I don't think Sansa is going to experience that in the remainder of the story I don't recall her picking the Lannisters over her own family, and the marriage was completely against her will. That changes the whole context. But frankly, I think using this draft as any indication of what the actual story will be is a fool's errand. Obviously, because PoV. True. GRRM has said he regrets never doing a Robb POV. I would have sprinkled in 1-2 Robb POV chapters per book up until the RW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The weirdest thing about that plan is where the fuck are the dragons? I am surprised it isn't a larger topic of conversation. It's like Dothraki = Dragons in the original plan. You're not the first person to miss them, but they are there. She finds the eggs while on the run from the Dothraki. It's interesting that in the original Game manuscript someone got a chance to read part of recently Daenerys still didn't get the eggs at her wedding, and presumably would have found them elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_Warged Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Dany killing Drogo in response to Viserys' death seems so weird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaeguardiandroid Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I personally think it is a huge reveal naming Arya, Jon, Bran, Dany and Tyrion surviving til the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_Warged Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I personally think it is a huge reveal naming Arya, Jon, Bran, Dany and Tyrion surviving til the end. For a while I've felt (and still hold to it) that all of the remaining Stark kids (including Jon) will live to see the end. I think GRRM has changed his mind on Tyrion though. I think Tyrion dies. If any of the Lannister kids live, I think (I know his ASOS dream hints otherwise) it will be Jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I personally think it is a huge reveal naming Arya, Jon, Bran, Dany and Tyrion surviving til the end. If he sticks with that, considering that he's changed the character of Tyrion and Arya fairly substantially, it does give me some hope he won't kill Arya though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwydden Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 If he sticks with that, considering that he's changed the character of Tyrion and Arya fairly substantially, it does give me some hope he won't kill Arya though. The Lannisters are all over the place. Joffrey sounds less bratty and crazy, Jaime more Machiavellian and all around villanous, and Tyrion much more... martial. Is he even a dwarf in this version? Tywin and Cersei are not even in. A lot of what Jaime was supposed to do was likely outsourced to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Thank the Seven he changed the plan. I almost wonder if (as someone suggested) he was trolling the publisher. But then, the early drafts of LOTR are fairly rubbish as well. Interesting reading, though. Hey, could you point me to those early drafts? Never heard of this. The original story leak said something about Sansa choosing the Lannisters over the Starks and that would have had major bad consequences for her. I think she was originally going to die. In the other thread, several poster surmised that Sansa or at least her child would be killed by Jaime since he was described as killing his way to the throne. You're not the first person to miss them, but they are there. She finds the eggs while on the run from the Dothraki. It's interesting that in the original Game manuscript someone got a chance to read part of recently Daenerys still didn't get the eggs at her wedding, and presumably would have found them elsewhere. There's some speculation that the part that's redacted discusses "melting" the Others based on some of the detective work happening on reddit. So it looks like that's where the dragon stuff is. Dany killing Drogo in response to Viserys' death seems so weird In the alternate universe of the first draft, it seems Dany has a much better relationship with Viserys. In fact, I'd say there are much better relationships between the characters than in the actual book. There was no where near enough drama :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSarellaX Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 If he sticks with that, considering that he's changed the character of Tyrion and Arya fairly substantially, it does give me some hope he won't kill Arya though.Oh yeah, I'm almost sure Arya dies, but it does give us some hope. What I found interesting is that we see ghosts of the original plan in the final story, even thought many things have changed. That's why it's fun to speculate. I don't see either Jon or Tyrion falling for Arya, but they might still become rivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 What I found interesting is that we see ghosts of the original plan in the final story, even thought many things have changed. That's why it's fun to speculate. I don't see either Jon or Tyrion falling for Arya, but they might still become rivals. Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 There's some speculation that the part that's redacted discusses "melting" the Others based on some of the detective work happening on reddit. So it looks like that's where the dragon stuff is. Well maybe, but it also definitely mentions Daenerys finding the eggs and them hatching into young dragons that give her the power to subjugate the Khals. Edit: also it seems a little odd to think the Dragons would be melting the Others in book two of three. Especially since the third book was gonna be called "The Winds of Winter" and not "Lets watch them pick up the pieces in the wake of the Other's defeat" I'd imagine in this version Tyrion or Jon or both manages to kill an army of Others in the second book, possibly with wildfire. But the threat would still be there, just delayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 On the dragons: Doesn't only Dany get one dragon in the draft. Making that three would make much sense if they were all destined for certain riders, not merely as spares. Just sayin'. And since George deliberately changed Tyrion's 'exile' from the North/the Starks to the East and Daenerys, I'd not be surprised if this decision would also affect/change the unrequited love/triangle thing idea. Tyrion seems to understand pretty much perfectly before even meeting her - he is spot-on in his description of her during his talk to Aegon, and later also analyzes her politics pretty well. We don't get much insights on his thoughts on her, though, and his talk most is about how she might execute him - but that's just talk. I'd very surprised if Tyrion was not drawn to or could not relate to Daenerys. Even if it would turn out that he was not her half-brother, she should clearly intrigue him. At least much more than 11-year-old Arya should... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 On the dragons: Doesn't only Dany get one dragon in the draft. Making that three would make much sense if they were all destined for certain riders, not merely as spares. Just sayin'. And since George deliberately changed Tyrion's 'exile' from the North/the Starks to the East and Daenerys, I'd not be surprised if this decision would also affect/change the unrequited love/triangle thing idea. Tyrion seems to understand pretty much perfectly before even meeting her - he is spot-on in his description of her during his talk to Aegon, and later also analyzes her politics pretty well. We don't get much insights on his thoughts on her, though, and his talk most is about how she might execute him - but that's just talk. I'd very surprised if Tyrion was not drawn to or could not relate to Daenerys. Even if it would turn out that he was not her half-brother, she should clearly intrigue him. At least much more than 11-year-old Arya should... Does she only get one? It's really hard to read cause of the glare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Dany killing Drogo in response to Viserys' death seems so weird Not if Viserys' original character concept was different. He could have been less of an asshole in the original draft. I kinda like the idea he was going to originally have Dany off Drogo for that reason. But im certain that he changed Viserys' characterization, thus leading Dany to not want to do that, and a more mystical plot bomb happened instead. Arya/Tyrion though in any form is just... :ack: To say nothing of Jon/Arya. *chunders* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Arya/Tyrion though in any form is just... :ack: To say nothing of Jon/Arya. *chunders* But you've already answered yourself regarding that: Not if Viserys' original character concept was different. He could have been less of an asshole in the original draft. Arya and Tyrion had different character concepts in the draft. I also think it's interesting that almost all of the posts about Arya/Jon are followed with disgust at the thought of these siblings in love but don't bat an eye at Jaime/Cersei. Is it because we meet Jaime and Cersei already involved? It might also be that we think of Arya as we know her in the books - a spirited child. But I get the vibe that she's older in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 It is dragon eggs, but only one dragon is mentioned for Daenerys: 'There, hunted by dothraki bloodriders _______ _______ 2 of her life, she stumbles on a cache of dragon's eggs. The birth of a young dragon will give Daenerys the power to bend the Dothraki to her will. Then she begins to plan for her invasion of the Seven Kingdoms.' The guys over at reddit have transcribed it. The missing words seem not to refer to the dragon eggs. I'm just saying: Tyrion going to Dany, Tyrion befriending hidden Targaryens (Jon, Aegon), and George obviously designing Dany as 'the last of her line', and Jon as the hidden true king rather early on. It wouldn't be much of stretch to threw Tyrion there into the mix as well, as another variation of the hidden prince theme (or rather the hidden bastard in his case). As to Drogo/Viserys: This is a nice tidbit showing how George's mind works. He has an idea, and then he tosses it around and tries to make it more interesting. What if Dany actually likes that guy she is forced to marry. Wouldn't that be more interesting? Make the brother who uses her as his pawn the jerk, not so much her husband. I don't think we should dismiss many of the themes mentioned in the draft too easily, although it is very likely the characters involved and the details changed - but the outcome may remain (roughly) the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 It is dragon eggs, but only one dragon is mentioned for Daenerys: 'There, hunted by dothraki bloodriders _______ _______ 2 of her life, she stumbles on a cache of dragon's eggs. The birth of a young dragon will give Daenerys the power to bend the Dothraki to her will. Then she begins to plan for her invasion of the Seven Kingdoms.' The guys over at reddit have transcribed it. The missing words seem not to refer to the dragon eggs. No, that's not the part. They're still working on it. It talks about the Wall and melting. As to Drogo/Viserys: This is a nice tidbit showing how George's mind works. He has an idea, and then he tosses it around and tries to make it more interesting. What if Dany actually likes that guy she is forced to marry. Wouldn't that be more interesting? Make the brother who uses her as his pawn the jerk, not so much her husband. I think that's just how his head works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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