Walking Dead Season 5 (No Comic Spoilers) Part 3

[Wise Fool]

To be fair, stabbing has been a really useful solution throughout the show. Well, that and shooting, skull bashing and decapitation, none of which were really practical at the time.

[CyanidePie]

Rick Grimes is a lunatic. He pulls guns on people nobody else can see, hears phones nobody else can hear, and must continually be talked down from increasingly aggressive stances by the people he's supposed to be leading. Darryl had to talk him out of his let's-go-into-the-hospital-shooting plan, then had to convince him that a third hostage was better than another murder victim. None of this wound up mattering in the end, as Rick decided to make a hostage exchange in the very stronghold of his enemy, a decision which led directly to Beth's death. Rick was also just itching to kill Aaron, and the only reason he didn't was because Michonne took a stand. That man is no different than Shane, except Shane lost his shit a bit earlier.

I get why Rick's wary; after Terminus, he's wise to be suspicious of unsolicited charity. However, you don't deal with strangers holding a white flag by knocking them out, tying them up, and threatening to stab them to death, particularly when you need their help. He'd rather feed his infant daughter acorn paste than rationally evaluate what Aaron's offering. Heaven forbid that he do something as stunningly rational as, I don't know, formulating a plan to check out Aaron's story.

I cannot imagine why anyone thinks Rick is a good leader. He's irrational, short-sighted and increasingly violent, and prefers to deal with problems by putting a hole in them with whatever weapon is at hand. Even that dishrag Glenn was able to see that Rick was going overboard, and when Glenn objects to something you know you've gone too far.

(BTW, I have not read the comics, so, you know.)

Pretty much. Rick is the new Shane.

[The Anti-Targ]

Felt like another rather stretched out episode. It feels like this season has about 2/3 of a season's worth of content so they needed to fill out the other 1/3 by stretching things out

[TrackerNeil]

Felt like another rather stretched out episode. It feels like this season has about 2/3 of a season's worth of content so they needed to fill out the other 1/3 by stretching things out

Totally, but then honestly the content TWD does have is aimless anyway. There's no central story line that drives the action. One season it's the Governor, the next it's cannibals, and now it's a colony...it's just a bunch of wandering.

I don't know if anyone's watched "Z-Nation" from the SyFy channel, but it's really better than TWD. Sure the acting is worse and the special effects laughable, but it's trying to tell a story, and in my book that makes up for a lot of ineptitude.

[Lord Flashheart]

Rick Grimes is a lunatic. He pulls guns on people nobody else can see, hears phones nobody else can hear, and must continually be talked down from increasingly aggressive stances by the people he's supposed to be leading. Darryl had to talk him out of his let's-go-into-the-hospital-shooting plan, then had to convince him that a third hostage was better than another murder victim. None of this wound up mattering in the end, as Rick decided to make a hostage exchange in the very stronghold of his enemy, a decision which led directly to Beth's death. Rick was also just itching to kill Aaron, and the only reason he didn't was because Michonne took a stand. That man is no different than Shane, except Shane lost his shit a bit earlier.

I get why Rick's wary; after Terminus, he's wise to be suspicious of unsolicited charity. However, you don't deal with strangers holding a white flag by knocking them out, tying them up, and threatening to stab them to death, particularly when you need their help. He'd rather feed his infant daughter acorn paste than rationally evaluate what Aaron's offering. Heaven forbid that he do something as stunningly rational as, I don't know, formulating a plan to check out Aaron's story.

I cannot imagine why anyone thinks Rick is a good leader. He's irrational, short-sighted and increasingly violent, and prefers to deal with problems by putting a hole in them with whatever weapon is at hand. Even that dishrag Glenn was able to see that Rick was going overboard, and when Glenn objects to something you know you've gone too far.

(BTW, I have not read the comics, so, you know.)

I agree with this almost fully. What's that saying? When the only tool you employ is a hammer everything starts to look like a nail?

With all the trauma the group has suffered, some of which is a direct result of poor decisions by Rick. Rick seems to be using a tunnel vision to deal with every scenario that comes up. Shoot first ask questions later. I don't think it's totally irrational to be suspicious of strangers. Trusting strangers and making mistakes usually ends up in dead friends.

That being said he seems to have just about gone over the deep end. If this new place is all it is cracked up to be I think we will see a better Rick Grimes. The terminus episodes made the point that even the most well intentioned groups can end up becoming awful people in this world out of desperation. I think our group was at the brink of making that turn but a potential safe zone should reign them back in.

Felt like another rather stretched out episode. It feels like this season has about 2/3 of a season's worth of content so they needed to fill out the other 1/3 by stretching things out

Cool story bro.

TWD is and will always be about the characters. This story isn't driving towards some big reveal or wrapped up with a bow conclusion. So if you are going to watch it you may have to suffer through some character development. The horror.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

Felt like another rather stretched out episode. It feels like this season has about 2/3 of a season's worth of content so they needed to fill out the other 1/3 by stretching things out

My formula for watching TWD :P : Watch 1st two episodes of the season,then watch mid-season break episode,then the mid-season premiere episode and then finally the last 2 episodes.

Also,i would love it if someone took out Rick. :) I don't like his one-note acting and he needs to go.

[TrackerNeil]

I agree with this almost fully. What's that saying? When the only tool you employ is a hammer everything starts to look like a nail?

With all the trauma the group has suffered, some of which is a direct result of poor decisions by Rick. Rick seems to be using a tunnel vision to deal with every scenario that comes up. Shoot first ask questions later. I don't think it's totally irrational to be suspicious of strangers. Trusting strangers and making mistakes usually ends up in dead friends.

That being said he seems to have just about gone over the deep end. If this new place is all it is cracked up to be I think we will see a better Rick Grimes. The terminus episodes made the point that even the most well intentioned groups can end up becoming awful people in this world out of desperation. I think our group was at the brink of making that turn but a potential safe zone should reign them back in.

I think Rick would do well to let strangers demonstrate their trustworthiness. For example, if Aaron truly means well, then let him prove it sharing some details about his home, and perhaps even by welcoming a small delegation who can inspect the place and the people and then report back. If he says no to that, then you send him packing.

What was really startling is the way Rick was immune to any sort of rational consideration. For example, if Aaron truly meant harm, he could have gunned down Sasha and Maggie from hiding instead of revealing himself. If he wanted the group dead, he could have brought with him a posse who would have ambushed them on the road, or in camp. And why on earth would a man bent on harm poison baby food? He'd poison the food meant for the adults, because they're the ones who use guns. Babies, as a rule, are terrible shots. Honestly, I think this whole experience has shaken him up and he needs some time to rest, recuperate, and deal with his many issues.

What would be interesting from a story point of view is if the group had to expel Rick because he causes problems at Aaron's colony by being overly hostile and suspicious, perhaps even committing murder because his dead wife told him to do so in a dream, or something. However, I sense Rick Grimes has the writers' stamp of approval, so...

[Lord Flashheart]

In all fairness to the Ricktator he did ask Aaron where his camp was located and Aaron didn't want to tell him. Rick seemed to think that validated his concerns about Aaron. I have to say again I agree with you and thought Rick was out of control the whole episode, but I did find myself saying I can see why he is so nuts about this after all the group has gone through.

[awesome possum]

AP... I think that this has been brought up before. Why are you in the Non Comics thread speculating on things that are going to happen in the future? Your knowledge s based on the comics. We have been having this argument since the inception of this show, and yet you still continue to do this. Now, you even start the thread of no comic spoilers and then use your knowledge from the books to aid in your speculation.

There is not a single person more responsible for spoiling this show for me more than you. Please either limit your discussion to the episode at hand, or post your speculation in the appropriate place.

Oh Jesus wept, another tantrum? Really? Let me tell you dude, every single time I post in this thread I tread very carefully with what I write because of your past tantrums. And now yet another fit. Cool. Well I'm going to walk you through my fucking posts and show you why you're crying wolf again. And I'm going to preface this by saying my knowledge of the comics ends around this time in the show. I myself have been spoiled on major actions - because it's just a fucking story about zombies - but my knowledge of what happens to all but a few characters ends very soon.

I thought that was a fantastic episode. Really showed how far Rick has come from his, "we can work anything out" days to "it would just be safer to murder you in cold blood" now.

I loved Michonne standing up to him, being a voice of optimism and reason. I loved Maggie's facial expression when she sided with Michonne, so subtle yet said a lot.

And I loved Aaron, or rather the actor they got for the role. He was great, found myself captivated by him almost every time he spoke. Another great actor added to the crew.

These are my observations, but I'm guessing you took offense at the final line due to your incessant need to know my intentions better than I do. I'm talking about how this is another great actor they found that fits well into the comic role, that's all. I'm not saying he's now part of Rick's crew, I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm saying the fucking actor did a really goddamned good job playing the role of Aaron.

I was thinking the same thing. I can absolutely see some of the characters - Tara, Noah, Rosita, Eugene, Gabriel - disappear into the community, maybe showing back up just to die in the inevitable zombie/evil human attacks that are bound to come.

Tara and Noah aren't even in the comics. Rosita, Eugene and Gabriel - they're all still alive at the last point I read in the comics but you know who else is? Fucking Andrea. That's why I brought them up, because characters have been known to be killed off before - and after - their comic counterparts.

I don't think they will for long, and this time it will be Rick's fault. He's too suspicious, incapable of trusting anyone not in his group, and that's going to play out in post-apocalyptic suburbia (if that is what Alexandria really is). That gun he hid is surely going to come back into play.

None of this here can be construed as spoilery speculation because I'm solely talking about what we saw in this episode. I mean, you'd have to be thick in the head to not believe that Rick is not trusting - the whole damned episode was basically about his inability to trust Aaron. And the gun he hid is surely going to come back into play because they took the time to show him hiding the fucking gun!

I even included "if that is what Alexandria really is" to keep it up in the air. The only reason I even added that in there was the thought of you flipping your shit at me calling it "post-apocalyptic suburbia". I deleted an entire paragraph about how I would view Rick as a villain if I came into that episode with no prior knowledge of the show because I thought you might flip your shit.

Nothing here is spoilery speculation. Nothing. It's just speculation that I take my fucking time to make sure it should adhere to your puritanical enforcement of "spoilers." Well as others have said, you're the only one raining on parades here, buddy.

You're the one pissing on everyone's cornflakes because you pissed in your own and then blamed it on me. Please fucking stop.

[Free Northman Reborn]

How many times must Rick do the "from Dale to Shane and back again" yoyo?

We had naive trusting Rick in Season 2, until he blew pissing-Tony and his buddy away in the bar.

Then we had "tough" Rick for a while, until he went batshit crazy and started having imaginary phone conversations with his dead wife.

Then we had pacifist farmer Rick for half a season at the Prison, where he would not even touch a gun. Luckily the Governor brought an end to this (the most irritating of the Rick mindsets thus far).

Rick was a man again? But not yet the decisive one his people needed. Still, after much flip flopping he managed to eventually deal with the Governor.

Then we had the whole Terminus thing that drove him to the tough side again.

I'm sure I missed out a fair bit of the emotional flip flopping but the point is, he has arrived at the right mindset for this world now. Still a loving father. Still a man that would die for his friends. Not a cannibal or sadist or abuser of the weak, but someone who doesn't trust strangers and won't hesitate to kill to protect his people.

I sincerely hope they aren't taking him down a path of questioning his mindset all over again. He took long enough to get there.

Luckily we had Carol say that even though he was wrong, he was right, so I don't think that is the message the writers are sending. Hopefully.

Rick summed it up perfectly: Just because we are good people, doesn't mean we won't kill you.

That is the reality of survival in the world of the Walking Dead.

[Free Northman Reborn]

My biggest irritation though, is the "walking tough in the middle of the road with guns drawn" habit. How many times will this continue to happen?

Did Jaime Lannister's fate in the Whispering Wood teach them nothing?

Where are the "outriders"? The scouts that should be moving through the trees to clear any area before the main group arrives? This walking in the middle of the road is soooo stupid, and irritates the shit out of me.

Followed by the only marginally less irritating "everyone sit inside the barn with no scouts on guard in the surrounding bushes".

Where is the watch system? The sleeping in shifts? The vigilance? The weakling Alexandria dude himself said he could have burned them all to death in the barn or ambushed them on the road if he meant them harm.

It is amazing this bunch has survived so long.

[dbunting]

Like the episode. If you can't understand why Rick is the way he is then you should put yourself in his shoes. He is not just surviving. He has a son and an infant that he has to protect, plus he was put into leadership of the group. He has to make decisions that he thinks are best for his kids and the group. I can tell you that if I was on my own I could easily make certain decisions, but if my wife or daughter was with me, it would change my mindset a lot. As for the trust issue, seriously, he has been the one to keep trying to trust people and keeps getting burned. He has become this version of Rick because it's what the group has needed. Now he can see that they need him to pull back and that's what he does.

As to the comparison to wehatever SyFy channel that was brought up, this is called The WALKING dead, not just because of the zombies but because of the people constantly moving

[Larry of the Lawn]

Oh Jesus wept, another tantrum? Really? Let me tell you dude, every single time I post in this thread I tread very carefully with what I write because of your past tantrums. And now yet another fit. Cool. Well I'm going to walk you through my fucking posts and show you why you're crying wolf again. And I'm going to preface this by saying my knowledge of the comics ends around this time in the show. I myself have been spoiled on major actions - because it's just a fucking story about zombies - but my knowledge of what happens to all but a few characters ends very soon.

These are my observations, but I'm guessing you took offense at the final line due to your incessant need to know my intentions better than I do. I'm talking about how this is another great actor they found that fits well into the comic role, that's all. I'm not saying he's now part of Rick's crew, I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm saying the fucking actor did a really goddamned good job playing the role of Aaron.

Tara and Noah aren't even in the comics. Rosita, Eugene and Gabriel - they're all still alive at the last point I read in the comics but you know who else is? Fucking Andrea. That's why I brought them up, because characters have been known to be killed off before - and after - their comic counterparts.

None of this here can be construed as spoilery speculation because I'm solely talking about what we saw in this episode. I mean, you'd have to be thick in the head to not believe that Rick is not trusting - the whole damned episode was basically about his inability to trust Aaron. And the gun he hid is surely going to come back into play because they took the time to show him hiding the fucking gun!

I even included "if that is what Alexandria really is" to keep it up in the air. The only reason I even added that in there was the thought of you flipping your shit at me calling it "post-apocalyptic suburbia". I deleted an entire paragraph about how I would view Rick as a villain if I came into that episode with no prior knowledge of the show because I thought you might flip your shit.

Nothing here is spoilery speculation. Nothing. It's just speculation that I take my fucking time to make sure it should adhere to your puritanical enforcement of "spoilers." Well as others have said, you're the only one raining on parades here, buddy.

You're the one pissing on everyone's cornflakes because you pissed in your own and then blamed it on me. Please fucking stop.

It's not just about spoiling what might happen in the show, it's about spoiling what happens in the comics for those of us that haven't read them but would like to.

Really, there are two threads, and I know you started this one and everything, but if you're in the No Comic Spoilers Thread, but you've read the comics, you probably should't be speculating at all.

Don't be pissed at HP for just asking that people use the two threads like they're supposed to be used.

[TrackerNeil]

I'm sure I missed out a fair bit of the emotional flip flopping but the point is, he has arrived at the right mindset for this world now. Still a loving father. Still a man that would die for his friends. Not a cannibal or sadist or abuser of the weak, but someone who doesn't trust strangers and won't hesitate to kill to protect his people.

Rick summed it up perfectly: Just because we are good people, doesn't mean we won't kill you.

That is the reality of survival in the world of the Walking Dead.

Well, I'm not sure I agree with this assessment. Rick Grimes has become not only willing to kill, but increasingly eager to do so. He wanted to attack that hospital full-on, despite the near certainty that it would mean losing members of his own team to the enemy. He was itching to kill that third hostage, and only Darryl's intervention stopped him. He had a major hard-on to kill Aaron, and was prevented only by Michonne. This guy is a cocked and loaded weapon just waiting for a target.

I feel as though Rick's "goodness" is measured mostly by his intentions and not his actions, which are questionable to say the least.

[awesome possum]

It's not just about spoiling what might happen in the show, it's about spoiling what happens in the comics for those of us that haven't read them but would like to.

Really, there are two threads, and I know you started this one and everything, but if you're in the No Comic Spoilers Thread, but you've read the comics, you probably should't be speculating at all.

Don't be pissed at HP for just asking that people use the two threads like they're supposed to be used.

Nothing I've said is a spoiler for the comics, except one small bit in my reply. Nothing. And I have no idea what is going to happen on The Walking Dead the television show in the upcoming weeks so I think I'll keep on posting and speculating where ever the fuck I please.

[dbunting]

As an outsider to this "spoiler" content arguement I have a impartial view. I read Awesome Possum's post and I didn't feeel as though he knew something I didn't. So to me that means he didn't spoil anything, since I didn't feel like he knew something I didn't. I wouldn't have known he had read the comics if I hadn't been told.

I would feel pretty upset if someone had read the comics and then came here each week pretending to be able to figure things out and "predict" how characters would react. I'm sure people have better things to do than be that guy.

[Relic]

Easy solution - AP stops posting here until next season at which point HP thanks him for being a nice guy.

Or you two can just keep bitching about it back and forth as if you had nothing better to do with your time.

[awesome possum]

I would feel pretty upset if someone had read the comics and then came here each week pretending to be able to figure things out and "predict" how characters would react. I'm sure people have better things to do than be that guy.

My speculation is based purely off of what I see on the screen because besides two major incidents I just don't really remember what happens next. I reread my posts in this thread very carefully just to make sure I am not unintentionally spoilering anything.

Howdy just loves his tantrums. I recall him throwing a several-pages long fit years ago because someone had the audacity to mention that a character named "The Governor" might be showing up. That's all, nothing about who this "Governor" was or what his intentions were or what he might do in the storyline, just his name. And he flipped out. Because that's what he does.

Easy solution - AP stops posting here until next season at which point HP thanks him for being a nice guy.

Or you two can just keep bitching about it back and forth as if you had nothing better to do with your time.

I like bitching. It's fun. And this thread is more active than the other, and the other contains spoilers for comics I haven't read. Now, this isn't a huge deal because this is just a television show that I enjoy and not life or death, but with the show catching up to and soon passing up the point where I am in the comics, I don't see why I should be forced to go be spoiled just because one guy throws a tantrum about how he thinks my non-spoiler posts might maybe contain something that once slept with a spoiler after a night of drinking.

[Underfoot]

I thought this was a pretty solid episode. Aaron gave off such creep vibes that I will be genuinely surprised if he doesn't do anything evil.

I like the theory that Aaron and co are recruiting because they're under attack by some other human group. With all of the "people are our greatest asset" talk, my first thought was that maybe this group is looking for women to procreate with. That's one apocalypse trope that the show hasn't utilized yet. But I like the idea that they need help defending Alexandria from raiders, and I think that makes a lot more sense too. Why else risk bringing someone as violent and unpredictable as Rick into the town?

[TrackerNeil]

Why else risk bringing someone as violent and unpredictable as Rick into the town?

Wouldn't it be interesting if Alexandria accepted everyone but Rick? I couldn't blame them for that decision.