How many Freys deserve to die?

[Morgul-Blade]

They all deserve to die. Those that didn't have a heavy hand in violating guest right are guilty by association. Plus, what have the Freys actually brought to the table? Always late to conflict, unless they're betraying Robb. They're rich, but anybody can be rich. I want Davos to be Lord of the Crossing - he sure doesn't seem materialistic, and I think would make a stellar Lord with that position and make good use of that wealth.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

You think it's a magic castle where the people inside eat no food and were the walls swallow trebuchet projectiles to make themselves stronger?

No, I think its one of the strongest castles in Westeros, as we are told in the World book:"These two keeps, now called the Twins, are amongst the strongest in the realm."

And in Winter there will be more food in the Twins than there will be outside it. How exactly is Stannis and a Northern army going to feed itself, in these Winter conditions?

The Twins is almost a 1,000 miles away from Winterfell. It is hugely improbable that they will find the food for a sustained siege in Winter.

With enough time, you can pound the tower into a ruin. They didn't have time. Note that pounding the wall until it crumbled was not one of the option mentioned. Besieging it and thus taking the castle intact also takes tons of time and you need to walk around the river to put troops on the other side as they mentioned. They flat out didn't have the time to make a good go at it. That's what any good castle do, it doesn't make the Twins unusually hard to take if you put your mind to it and have the time and ressources.

I'm sorry, but Robb and his general know the situation better than you do. "Nor can we take it by siege, without an army on the far bank to invest the other castle, Even if we had the time.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

They all deserve to die. Those that didn't have a heavy hand in violating guest right are guilty by association. Plus, what have the Freys actually brought to the table?

Pretty sure that is how the Nazis talked about the Jews. The Jews were funny looking as well and were criticized for being rich.

[LionOfCasterlyRock]

All that keeps them alive are Bolton and Lannister alliances, once those are out of the picture and the entire realm howling for their heads all you really have to do is place an army on both sides, blockade the river and starve them out. Twins are no super fortress. Storm End was all but starved into submission. And then when they come to ask for terms of surrender because they exhausted their supplies, tell them to go back as they have plenty of their own dead to munch on.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Wyman: I will kill every Frey! And then I'll piss on their graves!

Edmure: Then we're no better than Old Frey!

Thanks for making me feel bad about my Frey killing rampage.

*pulls down the posters with their pictures*

[khal drogon]

Saying All Freys deserve to die is same as agreeing to collective punishment.

[Morgul-Blade]

Pretty sure that is how the Nazis talked about the Jews. The Jews were funny looking as well and were criticized for being rich.

I'm pretty cold-hearted towards book characters I hate.

[Fat Mac]

They all deserve to die. Those that didn't have a heavy hand in violating guest right are guilty by association. Plus, what have the Freys actually brought to the table? Always late to conflict, unless they're betraying Robb. They're rich, but anybody can be rich. I want Davos to be Lord of the Crossing - he sure doesn't seem materialistic, and I think would make a stellar Lord with that position and make good use of that wealth.

Shouldn't all Starks deserve to die because Ned is a traitor, and therefore they're guilty by association?

[Morgul-Blade]

Shouldn't all Starks deserve to die because Ned is a traitor, and therefore they're guilty by association?

Same idea, totally different scale. Also, it's debatable whether Ned is a traitor.

[khal drogon]

So if one Stark is bad, then all Starks deserve to die and they don't deserve winterfell because guilt by association.

[Morgul-Blade]

Degrees of badness. I can't believe there are so many Frey lovers/defenders out there.

It's pretty easy to isolate the actions of Ned as compared to the other Starks. As for the Freys, please, someone out there who seems to care about them way more than I do, tell me which ones are innocent, and explain why. I'd be happy to accept your explanations.

[kimim]

They all deserve to die. Those that didn't have a heavy hand in violating guest right are guilty by association. Plus, what have the Freys actually brought to the table? Always late to conflict, unless they're betraying Robb. They're rich, but anybody can be rich. I want Davos to be Lord of the Crossing - he sure doesn't seem materialistic, and I think would make a stellar Lord with that position and make good use of that wealth.

Freys are a fertile family. Will you kill the newborns and the toddlers, too? Will you limit it to everyone over twelve? How about the daughters and the wives?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

All that keeps them alive are Bolton and Lannister alliances,

You've actually got that backwards. It is the Freys with Roose keeping him alive.

[UtherSnow]

It's not about deserving to die. That is never a consideration. How many Reynes deserved to die? Tywin didn't allow any who were trapped to survive. Remember, there were kids in amongst the Reynes that Tywin massacred, and also women.

Now consider how many Starks and their banners deserved to die? If you manage to recall, they were all under Guest Rights. There is only one answer. ALL FREYS MUST DIE!!

If you wish to apply the rule of EYE FOR AN EYE, start counting.

There's a song about it already. Ten Freys Hanging From A Tree.

Ten Freys hanging from a tree

If one Frey should accidentally fall

Another takes the space

Until we see no Freys at all.

[Morgul-Blade]

The destruction of the Freys is my Reynes of Castamere. I can't think of a clever song title...yet.

[Morgul-Blade]

It's not about deserving to die. That is never a consideration. How many Reynes deserved to die? Tywin didn't allow any who were trapped to survive. Remember, there were kids in amongst the Reynes that Tywin massacred, and also women.

Now consider how many Starks and their banners deserved to die? If you manage to recall, they were all under Guest Rights. There is only one answer. ALL FREYS MUST DIE!!

If you wish to apply the rule of EYE FOR AN EYE, start counting.

There's a song about it already. Ten Freys Hanging From A Tree.

Ten Freys hanging from a tree

If one Frey accidentally falls,

Another takes the space

Until there are no Freys at all.

:cheers: :agree:

[oopeed]

I guess that all those involved in the red wedding. Some of the freys seem to keep their wits, some were loyal to Robb and others were just not as interested in power as to kill. They also have families... But I don't see any Frey bragging about after all is done and done.

[TheDrunkenDornishman]

As many as it takes to soothe the Lady's rage.

In all honesty though, I would say just the ones who were directly responsible, and maybe send the high ranking soldiers and some of the other family members that were involved but not in charge to the Wall, to make an example.

[khal drogon]

Degrees of badness. I can't believe there are so many Frey lovers/defenders out there.

It's pretty easy to isolate the actions of Ned as compared to the other Starks. As for the Freys, please, someone out there who seems to care about them way more than I do, tell me which ones are innocent, and explain why. I'd be happy to accept your explanations.

No one defends their actions here.I don't see Frey lovers either.

Saying "All Freys deserve to die" means saying every Frey is guilty which is not the truth. There are innocent Freys whose names are already mentioned in the same thread. Do you think children deserve to die for being born a Frey. Exterminating a family in the name of vengeance is worser than breaking the guest right imo.

By the way what is your view on crucifixion of slavers?

[Mal Malenkirk]

I'm sorry, but Robb and his general know the situation better than you do. "Nor can we take it by siege, without an army on the far bank to invest the other castle, Even if we had the time.

If I understand English correctly it means: Even if we had the time, we can't besiege it without an army on the other side. So yes, they're saying it's possible but they just don't have the time to walk an army around the river and then besiege the place, it would take months. And anyway, if they did walk around the river... they'd proceed south to Riverun! That's their objective.

The option of pounding not one but two Towers one after the other to rubbles is never even explored in their discussion but it would take tons of time, several weeks at least, assuming they even had capable engineers on hand to start right away, so it faced the exact same hurdle and was not practical given their objective.

And 20K men is actually way too many men for this so he'd have eaten through his supplies way too fast. He'd have had to send back a good chunk of his army back and then re-mobilize them once the Twins are taken which would be a waste of time historians would laugh about for centuries.

If Robb had set out from the North with the objective to take the Twins, he could have done it, but that was not the objective and it was not what he came prepared to do, to try it would have lost him the war against the Lannister so he had no choice but to negotiate or abandon his current plan and simply take his entire army down the King's Road and face Tywin's force (Which IMO he should have done).

But the Twins are hardly unpregnable, you simply need to come actually prepared for it and have the time, which is all I've been saying. So unless you are claiming the Twins are unpregnable, I don't even undertsand what you are trying to argue here. If you go at them with a reasonable amount of men (not too few, not too many), capable siege engineers and secure supply lines and enough time to work, these towers are coming down like any other castle.