Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Iceman,I see people smoking in cars with kids all the time. It is unusual to see the windows rolled up when they smoke, but that's not much concelation to the people stuck in the car with the smoker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deleted01 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 The problem with these bans is the enforcement. The law will change in the UK in October, making it illegal to smoke in a car with someone under the age of 16. I support the idea, but enforcing that law will fall to the police, who are too busy with more important things. We'll see how many prosecutions there are once it comes into force.(As an aside, it does make me laugh that I could get pulled over with my brother in the car, who smokes himself, and get a fine. Sod that.)I don't smoke around children. I also don't smoke in my car around people who dislike it. Most smokers I know are the same. Not all smokers are evil beasts who have no regard for other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 that's not much concelation to the people stuck in the car with the smoker. I'm curious about something. To what extent is being favorable toward this ban about protection against serious, detrimental, inevitable health externalities, versus how undeniably unpleasant it is to be a child hotboxed in your parent's car? Not that they're mutually exclusive or anything. I guess I just sometimes wonder to what extent we frame our disgust for the nuisance of smoking as a health concern, especially in light of how different the reactions are towards parents who smoke around their kids is versus parents who feed their kids garbage. I guess, is it that we're much less forgiving of smoking because it disgusts many people personally (whereas many have a sweet tooth), or that we as a society are better informed of the health externalities of secondhand smoke than nutrition issues, or believe that any amount of secondhand smoke in an enclosed space will inevitably lead to serious health issues, or perhaps some other underlying issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman of the North Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 The problem with these bans is the enforcement. The law will change in the UK in October, making it illegal to smoke in a car with someone under the age of 16. I support the idea, but enforcing that law will fall to the police, who are too busy with more important things. We'll see how many prosecutions there are once it comes into force. Not sure if I agree that enforcement is much of a problem. The police does not walk around giving out fines for smoking in pubs, but I don't believe smoking in pubs is much of a problem in the UK today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubby Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Price made me quit (4months now), couldn't afford 2 packs a day at $12.00 (£8 ). Oh my sweet summer child. Try $28.00 (14.4 pounds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 louisiana has something similar, though a little less progressive:It shall be unlawful for the operator or any passenger in a motor vehicle to smoke cigarettes, pipes, or cigars in a motor vehicle, passenger van, or pick-up truck, when a child who is required to be restrained in a rear-facing child safety seat, a forward-facing child safety seat, a booster seat, or a motor vehicle's safety belt as required in R.S. 32:295 is also present in such vehicle, regardless of whether windows of the motor vehicle are down. For purposes of this Section, the term "smoke" shall mean inhaling, exhaling, burning, or carrying any lighted cigarette, cigar, pipe, weed, plant, or other combustible substance in any manner or in any form.(LSA-R.S. 32: 300.4(A)). the real motive is however revealed to be something other than public health:Probable cause for a violation of this Section shall be based solely upon a law enforcement officer's clear and unobstructed view of a person smoking as prohibited by this Section. Violation of this Section shall be considered a primary offense, and any law enforcement officer may stop a motor vehicle solely because of a violation of this Section; however, a law enforcement officer may not search or inspect a motor vehicle, its contents, the driver, or a passenger solely because of a violation of this Section.(LSA-R.S. 32: 300.4( C )). once the stop is effected, cop can say anything to search the rest of the car: driver was funny looking in a uh like high crime area, or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deleted01 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Not sure if I agree that enforcement is much of a problem. The police does not walk around giving out fines for smoking in pubs, but I don't believe smoking in pubs is much of a problem in the UK today.Everyone knows that smoking in pubs is illegal. The owners, and other customers, will undoubtedly have a go at you and kick you out. It's probably peer pressure and societal norms that keep people from smoking in pubs these days. But in your own car? Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman of the North Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Everyone knows that smoking in pubs is illegal. The owners, and other customers, will undoubtedly have a go at you and kick you out. It's probably peer pressure and societal norms that keep people from smoking in pubs these days. But in your own car? Not so much. Your kids wont know it's illegal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 How many kids are gonna tell on their parents though? Kids tell on their parents all the time. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes accidentally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman of the North Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 How many kids are gonna tell on their parents though? If they are annoyed by the smoke, you'd bet they tell. With stuff like domestic violence and sexual abuse, there are factors that often prevent the child from talking, but smoking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deleted01 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 If they are annoyed by the smoke, you'd bet they tell. With stuff like domestic violence and sexual abuse, there are factors that often prevent the child from talking, but smoking?What? Do you really think a kid will pick up the phone and call the police because their parent is smoking in the car? Do you think the police would turn up in time to catch the parent in the act and bundle them off to prison? Jesus, what a world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 What? Do you really think a kid will pick up the phone and call the police because their parent is smoking in the car? Do you think the police would turn up in time to catch the parent in the act and bundle them off to prison? Jesus, what a world. Where I come from, it's a time honored tradition for kids to call the cops on their parents. It usually has to do with spanking. I've known many kids who call the cops if their parents don't wear a seatbelt. Or speed. Teachers hear all sorts of things from kids about what their parents get up to, it's when they aren't talking that we get worried. I'm not sure anyone is suggesting bundling people off to prison. More like a fine. ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Dr.P,Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Dracarya, I agree with you that children are not going to tell police their parents are smoking i. The car. Nor do i think the police would dignify such a call with a respnse, so I guess that yeah, there are some enforcement issues. But I see it as more comparable to banning the use of mobiles whilst driving. Police are simply going to be able to fine if they happen to catch anyone, which may act as something of a deterrant. I guess what I am saying is that I see the difficulties but can see the rationale behind it when comparing with the mobile phone stuff.As to your comment regarding not all smokers being inconsiderate assholes, you are of course correct. But my understanding is that these laws wouldnt adversely affect people like you anyway (i.e. Who dont smoke in the car with minors present) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Dr.P,Really?really what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Dr.P,Really?really what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Dr.Pepper,Kids report parents to the police, really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Dr.Pepper,Kids report parents to the police, really?I can't tell if you are serious because, uh, yeah. Kids tell on their parents all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deleted01 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Can't multi-quote.Dr Pepper - wow. Calling the police when parents are doing something awful, sure, I'm totally behind that. But smoking in the car? I totally understand the health implications, but I think it's a bit much. Dracarya, I agree with you that children are not going to tell police their parents are smoking i. The car. Nor do i think the police would dignify such a call with a respnse, so I guess that yeah, there are some enforcement issues. But I see it as more comparable to banning the use of mobiles whilst driving. Police are simply going to be able to fine if they happen to catch anyone, which may act as something of a deterrant. I guess what I am saying is that I see the difficulties but can see the rationale behind it when comparing with the mobile phone stuff.As to your comment regarding not all smokers being inconsiderate assholes, you are of course correct. But my understanding is that these laws wouldnt adversely affect people like you anyway (i.e. Who dont smoke in the car with minors present)You're right, it wouldn't adversely affect me, as the only minor I rarely have in my car is my brother, who smokes himself, and will be 16 by October. The thing is, making something illegal won't necessarily change people's views. If someone has the attitude of "it's my car, it's my kid, it's my life, fuck off", then they'll continue to have that attitude. Plus I don't like the idea of the law governing what people can and can't do in their own property. It's just good manners to not smoke around people who don't like it, and common sense to not subject children to your smoke, but having the law push its way into our personal lives just doesn't sit right with me. To compare, I feel the same way about the new porn laws. Will they suddenly decide to ban smoking in all cars? In our houses, children or no? It's a slippery slope, is all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I don't think this ban is really comparable to the ban on mobiles while driving. That's an acute public safety issue whereas this is a somewhat more nebulous and insidious area that pertains to public health. I really think the most salient comparison might be the case against feeding kids sugar and junk food. Are those in favor of this particular ban also favorable to any law declaring that any and all unhealthful choices made for children are illegal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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