Astronomy of Planetos II: The Bloodstone Compendium

[Associate Maester]

It's definitely a challenge to decide where to break things up, and future parts will probably be a bit shorter, but honestly these first two (and the next one at least) all have very interrelated and interdependent ideas.. If you present only a piece at a time, there's less corroboration and people may reject the hypothesis as unsupported by evidence. My hypothesis was fairly bold, so I really didn't want to present it without a fair amount of support... And actually, I did cut out a LOT of stuff, including many more detailing textual corroborations. That said, with my basic premise and hypothesis laid out, future essays can be shorter as they build off of this foundation.

Personally, I enjoy reading the long form essays, and writing them as well. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but that's what I am in to. I don't think one is by default better or worse, it's more to do with the subject at hand and the style of analysis.

I didn't really have any problem getting responses - the first one got over 300 responses in three days, and 90% or more were intelligent and / or contributed new ideas and examples. It was hard to keep up at times... I've gone back and taken notes on all the great ideas everyone put forward, so I can use them and give the appropriate credit. It's gone really well so far, the reaction has been waaaaay better than I ever hoped for. I was afraid people would be scared off by the length and detail, but apparently some people still have longer attention spans, thanks the gods.

As for the red priests and Asshai, I'll have to double check but I want to say they are often referred to as the red priests of Asshai. We are told the Azor Ahai story is from Asshai, and the red priests think he is their savior. Your point is valid though; just because Mel is a red priest and a Shadowbinder does not mean they go together or that other red priests are shadowbinders. The organization of the Red Temple seems a bit scattershot, it's hard to say how the hierarchy works exactly. Their priests seem to have a certain amount of autonomy. In any case, bearing this point in mind, I'll have to go reread all the Asshai / R'hllor talk to make sure I get that part right.

The only one with the moniker of Asshai is Melisandre and it is clear she wasn't born there and at some point was sent or went their on her own. At some point R'hllorianism took Azor Ahai as their savior figure. Personally, I read the AA story (as we have it) as an etiological myth for the sometimes nasty business of human sacrifice (whether that leads to directly to death or not) and why sometimes it is needed for magical purposes, "Only death may pay for life." It is a principle that seems to under gird all the magic in the series.

Yes we don't know a whole lot about the organization of the Red Faith. We know they were one of many sects in the Valyria. We know it is the principle faith in the Free Cities and particularly popular amongst slaves. The faith has grown in Braavos over the last 100 years. They buy child slaves that end up as: priests, prostitutes, or warriors. At least in Myr they are also given children (ie Thoros). They ransom their own if they are captured. The largest temple is in Volantis with Benerro the High Priest.

There is also an interesting bit from the season 3-4 inside GOT book (although outside the scope of ASOIAF/TWOIAF) mentioning the principle temple is in Lys and that temple has a High Priestess. We get a further hint at different "orders" within the faith in Mel's chapter where she compares her own ability at reading the flames to the rest of her order.

We know nothing really of the origins of R'hllorianism other than they were an active sect in Valyria during the Doom.

[a_motherf'ndragon]

LmL when will you post III?

[LmL]

LmL when will you post III?

working on it now, should be up by the end of the week... Thanks for asking :)

[LmL]

I have been nothing but constructive. I provided Aurora Borealis association for your thread, which was commended by many posters. I provided this link, because it is relevant for your thread. I provided "divine feminine" idea. I provided "the blood sacrifice" as a reason for oiliness of the black stone and the link to weirwoods. So, your accusations are baseless. I did question parts of your theory that I do not find logical or strong. That is the whole point of this forum. But, I never trolled you, nor nitpick. And I was not the only one questioning your arguments. This is a tough forum, full of trolling and we have to be prepared to face them. But, we should be prepared to face constructive criticism. Surrounding yourself with a handful of people who agree with you (to an extent) does not make your theory stronger. What makes it stronger is that, when faced with questioning or legitimate criticism, you can provide adequate answers and, if not, realise weak points that you (and others) can work on.

With all due respect your comments are the only ones I have objected to out of 600+ comments. Still, you're right that I could have handled it better. I definitely agree with the principle you are stating here. I let your arguing style get under my skin, and that's a failure on my end.

Accusing me of all the things that you just accused me of not only breaches rules of this forum, but is unfair and shows your inability to face any criticism.

I thought this sounded strange at first but you are correct, rule 13 says don't personalize debate, and I've done that it seems by responding to arguing style instead of substance. Apologies. I guess after this comment I shall not remark upon arguing style. Thank you for correcting me on this.

You merged oily black stone and bloodstone into one with no evidence.

Whoa there - hold the phone. No evidence? One has only to re-read my essay to see all the evidence connecting the two. Is it ironclad? No. It's not even the strongest part of my theory - but there certainly was evidence presented to support the connection. A good deal of it. Perhaps later when I have more time I will quote from my own essay but anyone that is curious can simply read it for themselves and decide. I will provide more evidence in future parts, even while keeping an open mind on the origin of the greasy black stone. But no evidence? I think maybe you mean to say you don't find my evidence compelling.

[Durran Durrandon]

working on it now, should be up by the end of the week... Thanks for asking :)

:cheers:

[LmL]

When people questioned this (and I was not the only one), you did not provide anything viable. I tried to help you with basalt and blood sacrifice. You keep insisting a green stone with red spots equals black oily stone. That is just not the case. Yet, you push on like it's not a major problem in your reasoning.

I

I did in fact provide possible answers as to why it's appearance doesn't have colored inclusions in the original essay, as well as in the comments. At this point I have to wonder if you read the whole essay, or just skimmed it. As for very dark green appearing black with an oily sheen, I posted several pictures of heliotrope which to me clearly look like black stone with an oily sheen. Agee to disagree I suppose. I also specified that George may be using all the symbolism of actual bloodstone and transferring them on to a black magic rock that he is calling bloodstone, and that it may not be literal bloodstone.

I've responded to your basalt comment twice with gratitude. I didn't ignore it.

You ignore almost all posters who mention Venus as the symbol of dawn and stick to Lucifer, which is something that made many people uneasy with the whole concept and unwilling to even read it.

Not so. We (several people) discussed Venus, Eos, and Io, three dawn-related goddesses back and forth in the comments thread. Morningstar deities come in both male and female (I listed both in my OP), and belong no more to one gender than the other. Simply because you are more familiar with Venus is no reason to feel uncomfortable exploring the Lucifer mythology, they aren't mutually exclusive. There are many Morningstar deities, some of which I am going to discuss in future parts. I was exploring Lucifer because his name literally translates to "light-bringer," "son of the morning," "Morningstar," etc. He's compared to dragons and viewed as the origins or magic - seriously, did you read my two OP's? It's pretty obvious George drew from Luciferian mythology in more than one way. He uses a LOT of mythology though, Venus included. If we want to be through we should look at all Morningstar deities and look for Lightbringer symbolism. But I can only fit so much into one essay. I'm also not trying to cover every single mythological correlation that George has used, just the ones I discover.

The responses were coming very fast, and I tried to respond to everyone, but I'm sure I missed a couple. If it seemed I was ignoring anyone, it was probably an accident.

I have not heard from anyone else that they were uncomfortable reading it, although I did expect some to feel uncomfortable with the Lucifer discussion because of his "bad image," shall we say. But no one has said this besides yourself, as of yet.

My goal is not to rip your theory to shreds. I only wanted to make it better through discussion of its weak points. You showed an unbelievable immaturity in dealing with my criticism and in reacting to Elio's interview. You went so far to imply Elio does not know what he is talking about in his own book. How can anyone take you seriously? And be thankful trolls are more interested in who hates Sansa or Stannis. I really do wish they do not smell this thread.

I did no such thing - I merely pointed out the 8 or so ambiguous words which indicate he was speaking from his own guesswork, not insider knowledge. I do not think George has told Elio everything about the depths of his backstory, do you? I'm not sure where lack of maturity comes into it.

I don't feel like I'm having a problem being taken seriously. Quite the opposite, and for that I'm very grateful.

I am also very thankful that the response has been overwhelmingly positive, including most of the criticism. Again I apologize for not handling your own criticism better. Although I objected to your style, you did have several good ideas also, which I appreciate, and did respond to. I think you may have missed one of my responses to the substance of your ideas, it was buried a couple pages after your comments about basalt and Venus.

Here ends the "discussion about the discussion," at least on my part, as I have learned it is against the rules, and not productive besides. Cheers.

[Voice]

If I'm defensive, it's because you're criticism is consistently non-constructive - the only person so far on either of my threads. You say negative things in a definitive fashion, like, "sorry, that just doesn't work." You seem to think your personal opinion about how bloodstone looks should make me throw out the 17 odd symbolic and textual corroborations, and here you are touting what is clearly speculation as proof against my theory. You even seem offended that I connect the bloodstone and greasy stone, saying "why do you insist on putting that part in?" Because there's a ton of evidence for it, none of which you have refuted.

Meanwhile, I glanced at your theory, and it's full of baseless speculation, which is fine and dandy, but for you to try to come here and shoot down my theory without debunking ANY of my evidence seems pretty friggin lame. I refrained from commenting on yours, because I don't really comment on theories I don't see much evidence for. Shooting down people's theories isn't what I do for fun. I basically only comment on others writing with something nice to say, or CONSTRUCTIVE criticism usually in the form of a question.

I did really like what you had to say about basalt, and I responded about that. But you are basically the one person one my entire thread who seems to consistently be negative, and without much if any evidence.

Looks like I missed the fun stuff. LOL just kidding... But hey, if we never offend each other we're boxing with kid gloves right?

Just wanted to chime in and remind you to revisit my humble little thread. I responded to your comment over there and was interested in your take on it :)

[LmL]

Ah Ha! Somehow I wasn't set to follow that one, and didn't see it. Rectified Ser!

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Ok...whew. I've been slowly chugging through this thread, Part I, and the Dany=Amethyst Empress thread. LOVE THEM.

I've also been forming some of my own related thoughts and wanted to mention a couple of things before I forget them. Sorry if I'm repeating old points, I read the OP and first two pages of comments only.

I really like the idea of Lightbringer as a comet, but a similar possibility occurred to me. What if, instead of a normal comet, LB was either a solar flare or some kind of magical projectile that actually came from the sun? Obviously this would not happen in real life, but it seems like you are comfortable with the idea that these cosmic occurrences were caused by magic and didn't just happen naturally.

So here's what I'm thinking. Maybe AA/Last Hero/Hyrkoon/other aliases was neither a bad guy nor a good guy, but just a REEEEAAALLLYYY powerful guy who overreached himself? The idea of a hubristic "hero" would fit the theme of Lucifer and the other Morning Star myths. If he gained a great deal of power by way of the fire-and-blood type magic that Valyria was later known for, perhaps he drew on the sun itself as a source of power. It seems heavily implied that the Valyrians drew on elemental fire-power from the Fourteen Flames, which were presumably volcanoes. Elementally, the processes which fire the sun are not that different than geothermal volcanic processes. So if the Bloodstone Emperor found a way to tap the power of the sun, perhaps he used so much that he actually destabilized it in some way, causing disaster, much as the Valyrians later (probably) destabilized their volcano system and caused disaster. This could cause something, a flare or maybe even flaming physical matter, to shoot out from the sun and destroy the second moon. If it was flaming physical matter (perhaps with some magical infusion) it might have continued out into space and is now returning as the red comet.

Granted this is a LOT of power for a person to wield, but if we're accepting the idea that he killed the Amethyst Empress, well...considering the power of king's blood, I'm assuming mystical-jewel-empress blood has considerably more power than that. And the AA legend implies that the NN's death was necessary for AA's work to be complete. Perhaps the BE needed the AE's blood to work his hubristicly ambitious magic. Maybe he wasn't even jealous of her at all, or trying to usurp--he just needed her uber-blood. And that destabilized the sun, which destroyed the moon, which caused the Long Night AND all the super-ominous curse-lore surrounding kinslaying.

Perhaps the Patrimony of Hyrkoon, Nefarion, and the cult of R'hlor are all efforts to sort of clean up the image and continue/reproduce the work that the Bloodstone Emperor tried to accomplish. Perhaps, after causing a massive cataclysm, he realized that he screwed up and tried to fix things---and maybe more or less did, at least to the point of enabling life on earth to continue. But he maintained his hubris and didn't exactly repent, just figured he'd do better next time (whatever the hell he was trying to do in the first place---presumably causing a Long Night was not his actual plan). So different cults spin off of his magical research, each painting him as a hero under different names.

Just a thought.

Edit: There is a GRRM short story called "Night at the Tarn House" in which magic is explicitly stated to mess with the sun. I think that's what inspired this line of thinking.

[J. Stargaryen]

snip

Pretty interesting idea.

[LmL]

I thought so too, I'm going to respond to that and the comment about the asphalt later tonight when I have more time. Both were good comments. :)

[LmL]

In the meantime, everyone should google "solar flare sandblasts moon." It's a video from abc news, looks a lot like a flaming sword. This was my first idea, but it just didn't seem to have as much textual support as the comet splitting scenario, and it seems more scientifically far-fetched, although that's only so important. Solar flares, even combined with Coronal Mass Ejections, can only blow off a few dumptrucks' worth of debris. A magical flare, who knows.

A few on the net claimed a comet can trigger a solar flare, but it is not true. And the comet has to be involved, right? Also, think about the return scenario. What's going to make more sense to the reader, the comet striking the second moon in the sky, or a a giant bolt of light from out of nowhere? Since the comet has been hanging there for several books, it seemed to me a more likely / plausible / less out of nowhere cause of a second moon impact.

But I haven't *completely* ruled it out, and it was my original idea. Go watch that video and you will see why.

[Voice]

Ah Ha! Somehow I wasn't set to follow that one, and didn't see it. Rectified Ser!

Many thanks Lucifer :D

[LmL]

While I understand that you're following a line of symbolism around word associations with bloodstone, we can also consider other things, for example what is interpreted as oily rock may not be entirely made from the one rock. Bitumen was actually used as a very important material for building in ancient Mesopotamia. All Mesopotamia says "Moving away from the marsh lands, Mesopotamians were building structures with bricks made out of clay up north, which were not much better than marsh reeds when faced with flooding. With the discovery of bitumen came the ability to build more durable bricks and structures, including the Ziggurat, and the Tower of Babel."

Plus, carvings were made from bitumen rock in ancient Mesopotamia which survive to now.

Ok, so I stand corrected. I was thinking of natural bitumen, as opposed to fired bricks, but since we are talking about an exploded moon, the rock itself would have been fried / zapped / incinerated / etc so who knows what altered form it may be in now in George's mind. This goes for bloodstone, basalt, bitumen, or anything else that seems a likely candidate for moon rock. If the greasy black stone is natural bitumen, and not moon rock (pre-dating the LN) however, my original point stands in that it is too mushy and viscous to make blocks with, or to form a huge stone that can be "carved," like the Toad stone. Baking bricks is one thing, but natural bitumen is soft. If the greasy stone predates the moon explosion, I think it must be something else. Are there any other stones that contain oil or secrete oil that are harder?

And yes, I'm definitely keeping open the possibility that at least some of the oily stone predates the moon explosion which triggered the Long Night. One possibility for this to be the case is that the "oily stone" is the result of a process which has happened more than once. The moon explosion that I am discussing, but perhaps also a previous volcanic eruption / meteor impact produced an earlier batch of s similar stone.

Here's the thing: Asshai. All the other locations - Yeen, Isle of Toads, Seastone Chair, and possibly Moat Cailin - seem related to some kind of aquatic humanoid, Deep Ones, etc. Yeen could be an exception, being quarried and being farther from shore. But Asshai - it's greasy stone too, and it's the origin of the Azor Ahai myth. It's the home of various kinds of dark magicians, especially fire magicians. Asshai alone, off all the greasy black stone locations, is said to "drink the light," a very important phrase which also describes the meteors of the moon explosion / origin of dragons meteor shower, and the two swords made from Ned's sword, which symbolize the slplitting of the Lightbringer comet and the two moons. Of course I went through the definitions of bloodstone as a sun-turner and sun-reflection-darkener.

The Bloodstone Emperor is directly tied to the Long Night, and I've identified him as Azor Ahai (rightly or wrongly). Asshai, a massive, massive city, seems to me the result of a great civilization at its height - likely the GEOTD which the Bloodstone Emperor usurped, at the time of the Long Night. He worshipped a black stone that fell from the sky at the time when the moon blew up - likely the black stone he worshipped was a moon rock. Wherever it fell would either be a crater, a smoking wasteland, or something like that, and if it was a magical rock from a magical moon (my theory) then it would be a magical smoking wasteland - Asshai's description exactly. These pieces of evidence and others have lead me to belive Asshai was once the capital of the GEOTD (really, where else would it be?) and was all kinds of messed up by the meteor shower which became associated with the origin of dragons, leaving the entire peninsula a magically radiated fallout zone.

From there it's a short leap to concluding the other greasy black stone locations, which stretch out in more a less a straight line from Asshai to southern Westeros (consistent with a stream of impacts as the planet rotates) must be other hunks of moon rock. Now, even if this is so, the moon could easily (and likely) be composed of more than one type of rock, specifically the inner and outer layers and core. There are some textual clues that the outer skin and core of the moon are different... Going to get into that next part, but the point is the door is open for more than one material for that moon.

I've found 4 references to the oily black stone in the World book. In Yeen "A ruin older than time. Built of oily black stone, in massive blocks so heavy it would take a dozen elephants to move them."

"the Seastone chair. The throne of the Greyjoys, carved into the shape of a Kraken from an oily black stone."

"Some say as well that the stone of Asshai has a greasy, unpleasant feel to it, that it seems to drink the light, dimming tapers and torches and hearth fires alike"

"On the isle of Toads can be found an ancient idol, a greasy black stone crudely carved into the semblance of a gigantic toad"

These four quotes don't say the stone looks greasy or oily. It *is* greasy or oily, consistent with an exudation of grease/oil from the rock, or an ancient greasy/oily deposit onto it. Another question is that all black stones are not oily, and the black stone worshiped by the Bloodstone Emperor from the comet may not be the oily black stone. The oily black stone may pre- or post-date the Bloodstone Emperor and the Long NIght by a considerable period.

I'm intrigued by the possibility of a stone leaking oil, regardless of whether of not George is thinking specifically of bitumen. I think he's clearly taking liberties with his geology, from dragonglass to bloodstone to steel to greasy black stone, as he's only using them as starting points for magical ideas. That's why I am focusing on the symbolism a bit more than technicality - when I found that heliotrope also described a purple flowering plant called a "valerian" I knew for a fact George had walked these paths before me. The moon rock is some form of "bloodstone," magical bloodstone, or melted and reformed radiated bloodstone, whatever. There may be other rock too, or the greasy stone may be similar but different; it may be different types of black rock can end up being oily or greasy through a similar process... Or I could be totally wrong linking Asshai, with its greasy and sun drinking black stone, to the Bloodstone Emperor. Or course, in that case, my whole essay falls apart... But I'm fgoing to provide further corroboration for that in Part 3.

Thanks for your great comments and I'm sorry if I was at all dismissive at first of the idea. ;)

[LmL]

In the scenario that all the greasy stone is from moon rock, it would indicate an alliance between the Bloodstone Emperor and the Deep Ones, which I am seeing many other signs of. For a whole host of reasons I haven't gotten in to yet, I am pretty confident that the Bloodstone Emperor / Azor Ahai forged a sword remembered as Lightbringer and eventually made it from Asshai to Westeros, likely being involved at the mysterious battle which took place at Battle Isle. The Great Empire of the Dawn also seems to have been a maritime power, and potentially were already in Westeros (Hightower Fortress) before the BStone E. Point being, an alliance or some kind of alliance or even shared origin / previous interbreeding with Deep Ones isn't completely absurd. The Ironborn are totally out of place as a maritime power in dawn age Westeros, and the Grey King has a lot of Lightbringer / astronomy / meteor imagery about him.. and of course the Ironborn supposedly descend from Deep Ones interbreeding with humans.

In fact, just to throw out an early hypothesis, what if one of these magically radioactive moon rocks landed in the ocean and TRIGGERED the aquatic peoples to start breeding with mankind? Perhaps enabling them, or mutating them? I suppose that could even apply for a previous comet impact, although we haven't seen comet rock be radioactive like the greasy black stone, whereas I have good reason to think of the moon rock as radiated / radioactive.

[Kingmonkey]

In the meantime, everyone should google "solar flare sandblasts moon." It's a video from abc news, looks a lot like a flaming sword. This was my first idea, but it just didn't seem to have as much textual support as the comet splitting scenario, and it seems more scientifically far-fetched, although that's only so important. Solar flares, even combined with Coronal Mass Ejections, can only blow off a few dumptrucks' worth of debris. A magical flare, who knows.

Doesn't work. The video is pretty, but showing something essentially invisible to the naked eye. The point about sandblasting the moon, despite the fact that the moon is at the most no more than 0.25% closer to the sun than the Earth is that the cloud of plasma ejected in a CME will do a lot more damage to a body that is unshielded by a strong magnetic field. We know that Planetos has a strong, aurora-producing magnetic field.

The biggest CME we know of was the 1859 event, which caused auroras as far south as the Caribbean, and was said to have generated so much atmospheric charge that telegraph operators were able to go on signalling with the power off. Such an event would be quite devastating to us today, but of minimal concern to a pre-electricity society. There's a possibility an even bigger CME event hit us in 774AD, causing a spike in global c14 levels, but if so it had very little impact on people at the time.

[Modesty Lannister]

With all due respect your comments are the only ones I have objected to out of 600+ comments. Still, you're right that I could have handled it better. I definitely agree with the principle you are stating here. I let your arguing style get under my skin, and that's a failure on my end.

I thought this sounded strange at first but you are correct, rule 13 says don't personalize debate, and I've done that it seems by responding to arguing style instead of substance. Apologies. I guess after this comment I shall not remark upon arguing style. Thank you for correcting me on this.

Whoa there - hold the phone. No evidence? One has only to re-read my essay to see all the evidence connecting the two. Is it ironclad? No. It's not even the strongest part of my theory - but there certainly was evidence presented to support the connection. A good deal of it. Perhaps later when I have more time I will quote from my own essay but anyone that is curious can simply read it for themselves and decide. I will provide more evidence in future parts, even while keeping an open mind on the origin of the greasy black stone. But no evidence? I think maybe you mean to say you don't find my evidence compelling.

:cheers:

As for bloodstone - oily stone connection, I will wait for your further evidence to comment, because I have already commented on it and I don't want to spoil this thread with repetitiveness.

[Modesty Lannister]

I

I did in fact provide possible answers as to why it's appearance doesn't have colored inclusions in the original essay, as well as in the comments. At this point I have to wonder if you read the whole essay, or just skimmed it. As for very dark green appearing black with an oily sheen, I posted several pictures of heliotrope which to me clearly look like black stone with an oily sheen. Agee to disagree I suppose. I also specified that George may be using all the symbolism of actual bloodstone and transferring them on to a black magic rock that he is calling bloodstone, and that it may not be literal bloodstone.

I've responded to your basalt comment twice with gratitude. I didn't ignore it.

Not so. We (several people) discussed Venus, Eos, and Io, three dawn-related goddesses back and forth in the comments thread. Morningstar deities come in both male and female (I listed both in my OP), and belong no more to one gender than the other. Simply because you are more familiar with Venus is no reason to feel uncomfortable exploring the Lucifer mythology, they aren't mutually exclusive. There are many Morningstar deities, some of which I am going to discuss in future parts. I was exploring Lucifer because his name literally translates to "light-bringer," "son of the morning," "Morningstar," etc. He's compared to dragons and viewed as the origins or magic - seriously, did you read my two OP's? It's pretty obvious George drew from Luciferian mythology in more than one way. He uses a LOT of mythology though, Venus included. If we want to be through we should look at all Morningstar deities and look for Lightbringer symbolism. But I can only fit so much into one essay. I'm also not trying to cover every single mythological correlation that George has used, just the ones I discover.

The responses were coming very fast, and I tried to respond to everyone, but I'm sure I missed a couple. If it seemed I was ignoring anyone, it was probably an accident.

I have not heard from anyone else that they were uncomfortable reading it, although I did expect some to feel uncomfortable with the Lucifer discussion because of his "bad image," shall we say. But no one has said this besides yourself, as of yet.

I did no such thing - I merely pointed out the 8 or so ambiguous words which indicate he was speaking from his own guesswork, not insider knowledge. I do not think George has told Elio everything about the depths of his backstory, do you? I'm not sure where lack of maturity comes into it.

I don't feel like I'm having a problem being taken seriously. Quite the opposite, and for that I'm very grateful.

I am also very thankful that the response has been overwhelmingly positive, including most of the criticism. Again I apologize for not handling your own criticism better. Although I objected to your style, you did have several good ideas also, which I appreciate, and did respond to. I think you may have missed one of my responses to the substance of your ideas, it was buried a couple pages after your comments about basalt and Venus.

Here ends the "discussion about the discussion," at least on my part, as I have learned it is against the rules, and not productive besides. Cheers.

:cheers: Just to note that I never skim through anything. Do refer to my first post listing my pros and cons to your theory in detail. No need to repeat your position on bloodstone. You stated yours, I stated my objections. So, did other posters. As I said, I am waiting for your further arguments. I have already stated why I thought the existing ones are not convincing to me.

On a positive note, I'd like to draw your attention to a poster's comment on Lord Martin's "Starks are Not the FM" thread. His name is Pielord and he makes a very interesting parallel between Baratheon brothers and the Bloodstone emperor.

[Modesty Lannister]

Ok, so I stand corrected. I was thinking of natural bitumen, as opposed to fired bricks, but since we are talking about an exploded moon, the rock itself would have been fried / zapped / incinerated / etc so who knows what altered form it may be in now in George's mind. This goes for bloodstone, basalt, bitumen, or anything else that seems a likely candidate for moon rock. If the greasy black stone is natural bitumen, and not moon rock (pre-dating the LN) however, my original point stands in that it is too mushy and viscous to make blocks with, or to form a huge stone that can be "carved," like the Toad stone. Baking bricks is one thing, but natural bitumen is soft. If the greasy stone predates the moon explosion, I think it must be something else. Are there any other stones that contain oil or secrete oil that are harder?

And yes, I'm definitely keeping open the possibility that at least some of the oily stone predates the moon explosion which triggered the Long Night. One possibility for this to be the case is that the "oily stone" is the result of a process which has happened more than once. The moon explosion that I am discussing, but perhaps also a previous volcanic eruption / meteor impact produced an earlier batch of s similar stone.

Here's the thing: Asshai. All the other locations - Yeen, Isle of Toads, Seastone Chair, and possibly Moat Cailin - seem related to some kind of aquatic humanoid, Deep Ones, etc. Yeen could be an exception, being quarried and being farther from shore. But Asshai - it's greasy stone too, and it's the origin of the Azor Ahai myth. It's the home of various kinds of dark magicians, especially fire magicians. Asshai alone, off all the greasy black stone locations, is said to "drink the light," a very important phrase which also describes the meteors of the moon explosion / origin of dragons meteor shower, and the two swords made from Ned's sword, which symbolize the slplitting of the Lightbringer comet and the two moons. Of course I went through the definitions of bloodstone as a sun-turner and sun-reflection-darkener.

The Bloodstone Emperor is directly tied to the Long Night, and I've identified him as Azor Ahai (rightly or wrongly). Asshai, a massive, massive city, seems to me the result of a great civilization at its height - likely the GEOTD which the Bloodstone Emperor usurped, at the time of the Long Night. He worshipped a black stone that fell from the sky at the time when the moon blew up - likely the black stone he worshipped was a moon rock. Wherever it fell would either be a crater, a smoking wasteland, or something like that, and if it was a magical rock from a magical moon (my theory) then it would be a magical smoking wasteland - Asshai's description exactly. These pieces of evidence and others have lead me to belive Asshai was once the capital of the GEOTD (really, where else would it be?) and was all kinds of messed up by the meteor shower which became associated with the origin of dragons, leaving the entire peninsula a magically radiated fallout zone.

From there it's a short leap to concluding the other greasy black stone locations, which stretch out in more a less a straight line from Asshai to southern Westeros (consistent with a stream of impacts as the planet rotates) must be other hunks of moon rock. Now, even if this is so, the moon could easily (and likely) be composed of more than one type of rock, specifically the inner and outer layers and core. There are some textual clues that the outer skin and core of the moon are different... Going to get into that next part, but the point is the door is open for more than one material for that moon.

I'm intrigued by the possibility of a stone leaking oil, regardless of whether of not George is thinking specifically of bitumen. I think he's clearly taking liberties with his geology, from dragonglass to bloodstone to steel to greasy black stone, as he's only using them as starting points for magical ideas. That's why I am focusing on the symbolism a bit more than technicality - when I found that heliotrope also described a purple flowering plant called a "valerian" I knew for a fact George had walked these paths before me. The moon rock is some form of "bloodstone," magical bloodstone, or melted and reformed radiated bloodstone, whatever. There may be other rock too, or the greasy stone may be similar but different; it may be different types of black rock can end up being oily or greasy through a similar process... Or I could be totally wrong linking Asshai, with its greasy and sun drinking black stone, to the Bloodstone Emperor. Or course, in that case, my whole essay falls apart... But I'm fgoing to provide further corroboration for that in Part 3.

Thanks for your great comments and I'm sorry if I was at all dismissive at first of the idea. ;)

Sorry to barge in, but who says AA myth originated in Asshai? Maybe I missed something, but I was under impression that AA is the myth Red Priesthood promotes. Mel went to Asshai, but Thoros never did. We do not see that going to Asshai is a standard practice of Red Priesthood. (Plus, I do not believe anything Mel says about herself, so I am not at all convinced she is a Red Priestess. So far, I have only seen her as Asshai shadow binder wearing a glamour to cover her mask. But, that's my thing.)

As for oily black stones, I would like to point out several things:

- whenever they are shaped into something rather than a stone block, they have a shape of an aquatic animal

- the oiliness imho has everything to do with blood sacrifice, so I do not see it as a natural occurrence and would not link it to any astrological event

- I agree that oily black stone and Asshai are closely linked, which means oily black stone is a product of a very dark magic rather than an astronomical collision

- black and oily is strongly opposed to white and seeping red tears, which leads me to believe that wherever we find a black oily stone we can find opponents of followers of the Old Gods. This applies to the Ironborn and to the Citadel when we talk about Westeros. Nagga's bones may be seen as a cut and petrified weirwood, which would suggest that CotF fought for the Iron Islands and lost to the other side. I do believe oily black stone is linked to the Deep Ones and I do believe their invasion is imminent. But, your thread is dealing with astronomy and I find your two moon theory quite logical. However, nothing suggests oily black stone postdated LN.

- so it boils down to dark magic vs. white magic; Asshai vs. CotF. The main question here is who is allied with whom in the latest iteration of the battle for the Dawn, which is ASOIAF.

[Modesty Lannister]

I have good reason to think of the moon rock as radiated / radioactive.

On Earth, moon rocks have proven not to be radioactive. Moon rock was used by the Soviets to make wonderful mosaics inside one of the stations of the Moscow metro.