Astronomy of Planetos II: The Bloodstone Compendium

[LmL]

Hey there Cat, so glad you enjoyed my mad ravings. I think something like what you are taking about was discussed - I suggested an axis wobble set off by the destruction of the second moon, among other similar ideas. Problem with this or any axis-related explanation is that it would make navigating by the stars totally impossible, as the celestial North Pole would not be fixed. I think we would hear about this from the characters.

Of course we don't know how big the planet is, but I don't know if all of Westeros to Asshai could be hidden on one side of the planet... And if Planetos stopped spinning - wouldn't everyone pretty much die? Correct me if I am wrong.

I will look for references to star visibility during the LN.

I'm still keeping an open mind as well on this and most other things so keep the ideas coming. :)

[Mychel_Redfort]

If you imagine an eclipse on Planetos, it would require another planet (or the moon) to remain between Planetos and the sun for years and years at a time. Eclipses are usually very local, too & we know that the Long Night covered at least Westeros and Essos. I think a more likely explanation for a long night with stars and moon is that Westeros and Essos face away from the sun for all those years. Literally a long night. The night could have occured if Planetos stopped spinning at a time when Westeros and Essos were facing away from the sun. This link on Venus' spin indicates it could be possible

In summary:

Planetos sustains an impact which changes its orbit and spin, causing the Long Night. The long Night ends when Planetos starts spinning on an axis more perpendicular to the direction of the sun again. The Long Night could have finished after another impact changed its rotation or simply because the long Night was an unstable state (see the Venus reference). When the Long Night finishes, it is followed by irregular seasons, because Planetos' axis of rotation still wobbles - the rotation is still unstable as Planetos is not a perfect sphere with all its mass evenly distributed.

I like the idea of a literal Long Night : no sun not because there's a cloud of debris or a long eclipse but because Westeros stay on the side of Planetos not lighted by the sun. However, the axis of revolution going flat on the orbital plane and pointing to the sun means that nights and days don't alternate daily but yearly : roughly there would be a six month day during summer and a six month night during winter. For Westeros to stay in the night, the axis would have to move in synch with the revolution around the sun, and that's not the case with Uranus. And Uranus is still rolling on its side : you would need to have a second collision to bring the axis on its current position.

As LmL says, we know there is no big axis wobble on Planetos right now, because in the Dunk and Egg tales and in ASOIAF 80 years later, the North Star is the eye of the Ice Dragon (though it's the eye of the rider for Osha, but we know wildlings don't have exactly the same constellations)

[J. Stargaryen]

I was a little under the weather, so I missed out on the first part of this thread. After catching up, I've got to say I really like the idea that the Seven were once the Eight, until the second moon exploded. And that the eighth really is the drowned god. Some ancient people would have literally watched one of their gods fall from the sky and sink into the sea — drown.

I also wonder if the idea of an eclipse doesn't make more sense for the LN. Because if that were the case, then it would make sense that the comet would be the astronomical version of Lightbringer. By destroying the moon, the comet literally would have brought the sun's light back to Planetos. If the destruction of the second moon by the comet caused the LN, the comet would be better known as dark-bringer, I think.

I saw that Ygritte mentioned that Rhaegar, Elia and Lyanna are an earthly parallel for the sun and two moons. Especially when combined with the Dothraki version where the sun and moon are married. It's a long-held belief of mine that the combination of the Qarthine and Dothraki mythologies told in AGoT, Daenerys III, serves as an R+L=J clue.

Allowing for two assumptions —1) Rhaegar and Lyanna did marry, 2) YG is not Rhaegar's son — we can see a parallel or two emerge between R+E&L and Aegon + Visenya and Rhaenys. Rhaegar and Aegon's lines survived through only one of their wives. Another possible parallel is that Aegon and Rhaegar both married one wife for duty and the other for love. At least we know that's the case with Aegon, while we can only speculate about the truth of R+L. But that is one of the popular interpretations.

The Visenya + Dark Sister + sorcery stuff is also really intriguing, imo. I've always thought the name Dark Sister was just too on the nose to be nothing. And it fits really well with a lot of what is being discussed in these threads. The black moon, sorcery, etc.

Also, thanks to Equilibrium for word searching "morningstar." The examples where Cole uses one to defeat Daemon Targaryen, wielding Dark Sister, went a long way toward validating ideas that both the OP and I had put forward. It wasn't too long before part 1 of this thread was posted that I made the case that Brienne's use of a morningstar at Bitterbridge was suggestive of Lightbringer. - Link. In light of everything that has been brought up in these threads, I think I will take a second look at that passage.

Just kind of thinking out loud here. In light of the astronomy discussion, I wonder if the crown of winter roses could be viewed as a halo. One might immediately think of (fallen) angels, but also the halo that is sometimes seen during an eclipse.

One last comment for now. I haven't really done any research on this yet, but I wonder if the Daynes aren't descendents of the Amethyst Empress. Notice the colors of House Dayne. This might tie in nicely with Radio Westeros's interpretation of the LB and Dawn origin stories, too, along with what the OP is proposing re: the Bloodstone Emperor.

[LmL]

I was a little under the weather, so I missed out on the first part of this thread. After catching up, I've got to say I really like the idea that the Seven were once the Eight, until the second moon exploded. And that the eighth really is the drowned god. Some ancient people would have literally watched one of their gods fall from the sky and sink into the sea — drown.

I also wonder if the idea of an eclipse doesn't make more sense for the LN. Because if that were the case, then it would make sense that the comet would be the astronomical version of Lightbringer. By destroying the moon, the comet literally would have brought the sun's light back to Planetos. If the destruction of the second moon by the comet caused the LN, the comet would be better known as dark-bringer, I think.

The title of Part 3 is "Dark Lightbringer," thanks for spoiling that. ;)

I follow your idea of the destruction of the second moon ending an eclipse, but it doesn't explain how the prolonged eclipse (scientifically impossible, fwiw) got started. Also, even if the shattering the moon "ended" an eclipse, it would still darken the sky and reign down all kinds of hellacious meteors on Planetos, which would in turn cause another Long Night. Thematically, consider that the Dawn Age or Golden Age existed before the destruction of the second moon - destroying one of the celestial wanderers, or gods to some, can only bring chaos and disharmony, not balance. The current situation is unbalanced, as a result of the dead God.

I do however think the moon was in eclipse formation when the comet struck. Also, I believe the second moon to be smaller - it would have to be , or else it's destruction would have doomed Planetos - so it probably would not totally eclipse the sun anyway. I actually think the "God's Eye" idea is the second moon in the middle of the sun, like the pupil of an eye. God's Eye.

And yeah, the "drowned God" monicker really fits.

I saw that Ygritte mentioned that Rhaegar, Elia and Lyanna are an earthly parallel for the sun and two moons. Especially when combined with the Dothraki version where the sun and moon are married. It's a long-held belief of mine that the combination of the Qarthine and Dothraki mythologies told in AGoT, Daenerys III, serves as an R+L=J clue.

Allowing for two assumptions —1) Rhaegar and Lyanna did marry, 2) YG is not Rhaegar's son — we can see a parallel or two emerge between R+E&L and Aegon + Visenya and Rhaenys. Rhaegar and Aegon's lines survived through only one of their wives. Another possible parallel is that Aegon and Rhaegar both married one wife for duty and the other for love. At least we know that's the case with Aegon, while we can only speculate about the truth of R+L. But that is one of the popular interpretations.

The Visenya + Dark Sister + sorcery stuff is also really intriguing, imo. I've always thought the name Dark Sister was just too on the nose to be nothing. And it fits really well with a lot of what is being discussed in these threads. The black moon, sorcery, etc.

Also, thanks to Equilibrium for word searching "morningstar." The examples where Cole uses one to defeat Daemon Targaryen, wielding Dark Sister, went a long way toward validating ideas that both the OP and I had put forward. It wasn't too long before part 1 of this thread was posted that I made the case that Brienne's use of a morningstar at Bitterbridge was suggestive of Lightbringer. - Link. In light of everything that has been brought up in these threads, I think I will take a second look at that passage.

Just kind of thinking out loud here. In light of the astronomy discussion, I wonder if the crown of winter roses could be viewed as a halo. One might immediately think of (fallen) angels, but also the halo that is sometimes seen during an eclipse.

One last comment for now. I haven't really done any research on this yet, but I wonder if the Daynes aren't descendents of the Amethyst Empress. Notice the colors of House Dayne. This might tie in nicely with Radio Westeros's interpretation of the LB and Dawn origin stories, too, along with what the OP is proposing re: the Bloodstone Emperor.

I enjoyed your bitterbridge thread. I'm doing a Brienne reread right now looking for all the Lightbringer stuff around her... There's tons.

Because she is carrying around Lightbringer.

Or... Dark Lightbringer.

Edit: addition:

Oh and yes I tend to think the Dayne's are connected to the Amethyst Empress or their loyalists / descendents, if the gemstones represent dynasties instead of rulers. .

[Modesty Lannister]

Just kind of thinking out loud here. In light of the astronomy discussion, I wonder if the crown of winter roses could be viewed as a halo. One might immediately think of (fallen) angels, but also the halo that is sometimes seen during an eclipse.

The crown of blue roses can be interpreted as "northern lights" or

Aurora is a natural light display in the sky based around the polar regions.

Wikipedia

Aurora or Dawn (see what I am getting at) is Roman goddess of dawn.

On Earth, we have Aurora Borealis (northern hemisphere), and Aurora Australis (southern hemisphere).

The lights are usually green, but they can also be red or blue.

Greek version of goddess Aurora is Titaness and goddess Eos. She is also sister of Helios (god of the Sun) and Selene (goddess of the moon).

Aurora appears most often in sexual poetry with one of her mortal lovers. A myth taken from the Greek by Roman poets tells that one of her lovers was the prince of Troy, Tithonus. Tithonus was a mortal, and would therefore age and die. Wanting to be with her lover for all eternity, Aurora asked Jupiter to grant immortality to Tithonus. Jupiter granted her wish, but she failed to ask for eternal youth to accompany his immortality, and he became forever old. Aurora turned him into a grasshopper.

Both Eos and Aurora are derived from

One of the most important goddesses of reconstructed Proto-Indo-European religion is the personification of dawn as a beautiful young woman. Her name is reconstructed as Hausōs (PIE *h₂ewsṓs- or *h₂ausōs-, an s-stem), besides numerous epithets.

Derivatives of *h₂ewsṓs in the historical mythologies of Indo-European peoples include Indian Uṣas, Greek Ἠώς (Ēōs), Latin Aurōra, and Baltic Aušra("dawn", c.f. Lithuanian Aušrinė). Germanic *Austrōn- is from an extended stem *h₂ews-tro-.^[1]

The name *h₂ewsṓs is derived from a root *h₂wes / *au̯es "to shine",^[2] thus translating to "the shining one". Both the English word east and the Latin auster "south" are from a root cognate adjective *aws-t(e)ro-. Also cognate is aurum "gold", from *awso-. The name for "spring season", *wes-r- is also from the same root. The dawn goddess was also the goddess of spring, involved in the mythology of the Indo-European new year, where the dawn goddess is liberated from imprisonment by a god (reflected in the Rigveda as Indra, in Greek mythology as Dionysusand Cronus).

Besides the name most amenable to reconstruction, *h₂ewsṓs, a number of epithets of the dawn goddess may be reconstructed with some certainty. Among these is *wenos- (also an s-stem), whence Sanskrit vanas "loveliness; desire", used of Uṣas in the Rigveda, and the Latin name Venus and the Norse Vanir. The name indicates that the goddess was imagined as a beautiful nubile woman, who also had aspects of a love goddess.^{[citation needed]}

As a consequence, the love goddess aspect was separated from the personification of dawn in a number of traditions, including Roman Venus vs. Aurora, and Greek Aphrodite vs. Eos. The name of Aphrodite Άφροδίτη may still preserve her role as a dawn goddess, etymologized as "she who shines from the foam [ocean]" (from aphros "foam" and deato "to shine").^[3]J.P. Malloryand Douglas Q. Adams (1997)^[4] have also proposed an etymology based on the connection with the Indo-European dawn goddess, from *ab^hor- "very" and *d^hei "to shine". Other epithets include Ἠριγόνη Erigone "early-born" in Greek.

The Italic goddess Mater Matuta "Mother Morning" has been connected to Aurora by Roman authors (Lucretius, Priscianus). Her festival, the Matralia, fell on 11 June, beginning at dawn.^[5]

The abduction and imprisonment of the dawn goddess, and her liberation by a heroic god slaying the dragon who imprisons her, is a central myth of Indo-European religion, reflected in numerous traditions. Most notably, it is the central myth of the Rigveda, a collection of hymns surrounding the Soma rituals dedicated to Indra in the new year celebrations of the early Indo-Aryans.

This sheds quite a new light on Harrenhal tourney, crowning of Lyanna, her abduction and ToJ as well.

[LmL]

Great stuff Modesty Lannister. The Eos legend also ties into that of Io and Argus, which is going to come into the next section. Io and Eos are heavily linked..

[LmL]

Note the connection to Promethius, played in ASOIAF by the Grey King, as well as Heracles of the 12 labors:

Another of the myths is told most anecdotally by Ovid, in Metamorphoses. According to Ovid, one day, Zeus noticed the maiden and lusted after her. As Io tells her own story in Aeschylus' Prometheus Bound, she rejected his whispered nighttime advances until the oracles caused her own father to drive her out into the fields of Lerna. There, Zeus covered her with clouds to hide her from the eyes of his jealous wife, Hera, who nonetheless came to investigate. In a vain attempt to hide his crimes, Zeus turned himself into a white cloud and transformed Io into a beautiful white heifer. Hera was not fooled. She demanded the heifer as a present, and Zeus could not refuse her without arousing suspicion.

Hera tethered Io to the olive-tree in the temenos of her cult-site, the Heraion, and placed her in the charge of many-eyed Argus Panoptes to keep her separated from Zeus. Zeus commanded Hermes to kill Argus; Ovid added the detail that he lulled all hundred eyes to sleep, ultimately with the story of Pan and Syrinx. Hera then forced Io to wander the earth without rest, plagued by a gadfly (Οἶστρος or oestrus: see etymology of "estrus") to sting her into madness. Io eventually crossed the path between the Propontis and the Black Sea, which thus acquired the name Bosporus (meaning ox passage), where she met Prometheus.

Prometheus had been chained on Mt. Caucasus by Zeus for teaching mankind how to make fire and tricking Zeus into accepting the inferior part of a sacrifice while the mortals kept the better part (meat); every day, a giant eagle fed on Prometheus' liver. Despite his agony, he comforted Io with the information that she would be restored to human form and become the ancestress of the greatest of all heroes, Heracles (Hercules). Io escaped across the Ionian Sea to Egypt, where she was restored to human form by Zeus. There, she gave birth to Zeus's son Epaphus, and a daughter as well, Keroessa. She later married Egyptian king Telegonus. Their grandson, Danaos, eventually returned to Greece with his fifty daughters (the Danaids), as recalled in Aeschylus' play The Suppliants.

...

The ancients connected Io with the Moon, and in Aeschylus' Prometheus Bound, where Io encounters Prometheus, she refers to herself as "the horned virgin", both bovine and lunar.

[Modesty Lannister]

Note the connection to Promethius, played in ASOIAF by the Grey King, as well as Heracles of the 12 labors:

I really cannot make a connection between Prometheus (the Lightbringer) and the Grey King. Care to explain?

[J. Stargaryen]

The crown of blue roses can be interpreted as "northern lights" or

Aurora or Dawn (see what I am getting at) is Roman goddess of dawn.

On Earth, we have Aurora Borealis (northern hemisphere), and Aurora Australis (southern hemisphere).

The lights are usually green, but they can also be red or blue.

Greek version of goddess Aurora is Titaness and goddess Eos. She is also sister of Helios (god of the Sun) and Selene (goddess of the moon).

Aurora appears most often in sexual poetry with one of her mortal lovers. A myth taken from the Greek by Roman poets tells that one of her lovers was the prince of Troy, Tithonus. Tithonus was a mortal, and would therefore age and die. Wanting to be with her lover for all eternity, Aurora asked Jupiter to grant immortality to Tithonus. Jupiter granted her wish, but she failed to ask for eternal youth to accompany his immortality, and he became forever old. Aurora turned him into a grasshopper.

Both Eos and Aurora are derived from

This sheds quite a new light on Harrenhal tourney, crowning of Lyanna, her abduction and ToJ as well.

That's really interesting. Something to chew on.

The title of Part 3 is "Dark Lightbringer," thanks for spoiling that. ;)

I follow your idea of the destruction of the second moon ending an eclipse, but it doesn't explain how the prolonged eclipse (scientifically impossible, fwiw) got started. Also, even if the shattering the moon "ended" an eclipse, it would still darken the sky and reign down all kinds of hellacious meteors on Planetos, which would in turn cause another Long Night. Thematically, consider that the Dawn Age or Golden Age existed before the destruction of the second moon - destroying one of the celestial wanderers, or gods to some, can only bring chaos and disharmony, not balance. The current situation is unbalanced, as a result of the dead God.

I do however think the moon was in eclipse formation when the comet struck. Also, I believe the second moon to be smaller - it would have to be , or else it's destruction would have doomed Planetos - so it probably would not totally eclipse the sun anyway. I actually think the "God's Eye" idea is the second moon in the middle of the sun, like the pupil of an eye. God's Eye.

And yeah, the "drowned God" monicker really fits.

I enjoyed your bitterbridge thread. I'm doing a Brienne reread right now looking for all the Lightbringer stuff around her... There's tons.

Because she is carrying around Lightbringer.

Or... Dark Lightbringer.

Oh and yes intend to think the Dayne's are connected to the Amethyst Empress or their loyalists / descendents, if the gemstones represent dynasties instead of rulers. .

That makes sense. Would that eclipse have looked like a black pupil within a red iris, do you think?

[LmL]

That's really interesting. Something to chew on.

That makes sense. Would that eclipse have looked like a black pupil within a red iris, do you think?

Probably so, although I'm not an expert on bending light waves, I think we might get a red coloring... God is a big stoner, I hear.

[LmL]

I really cannot make a connection between Prometheus (the Lightbringer) and the Grey King. Care to explain?

The Grey King stole fire from the gods, just as Promethius did,not hats the big connection. The Grey King taught his followers to fish, mend nets, and other things, and that's consistent with a bringer of learning and knowledge. Prometheus also is responsible for which part of an animal is sacrificed to the gods - he sacrificed the bones. Reminds me of the Grey King's hall made of Nagga Bones. Promethius's older brother is Atlas, who is condemned to stand at the far west of the world and hold up the heavens. On the Iron Islands, we are told that everyone descends from the Grey King EXCEPT the Goodbrothers, who descend from the Grey King's "leal elder brother." The thing about Atlas standing in the far west reminds me of the lonely light far to the west, and the Goodbrothers live at a castle called "the Hammerhorn," which evokes meteor impacts, hammer of the waters, horn of Joramun / earthquakes, etc.

Finally, Promethius is rescued by a descendent of Io, Heracles. Io First meets Promethius when Zeus sends Hermes to destroy the many-eyes Giant, Argus, and Io is set free to roam...in found a better summary of Io and Argus, which I'll quote below.

Io was the princess of Argos, who Zeus fell in love with. To try to keep Hera from noticing, he covered the world with a thick blanket of clouds. However, as soon as Hera saw that, she immediately became suspicious. She came down from Mount Olympus and began dispersing the clouds. Zeus did some quick thinking and changed Io's form from a lovely maiden; so, as the clouds dispersed, Hera found Zeus standing next to a white heifer. He then swore that he had never seen the cow before and that it had just sprang right out of the earth. Seeing right through this, Hera faked liking the cow so much that she wanted to have it as a present. As turning such a reasonable request down would have given the whole thing away, Zeus presented her with the cow. She sent the cow away and arranged Argus Panoptes to watch over it. Since Argus had a hundred eyes and could have some of them sleep while keeping others awake, he made for a fine watchman.

Desperate, Zeus sent Hermes to fetch Io. Disguised as a shepherd, Hermes had to employ all his skill as a musician and storyteller to gain Argus' confidence and lull him to sleep. Once asleep, Hermes killed Argus; later, Hera took his eyes and set them into the tail of her favorite bird, the peacock. While Io was now free, Hera sent the mother of all gadflies to sting the still bovine Io. The ghost of Argus pursued her as well. This pushed her towards madness and in her efforts to escape, she wandered the world. During her journeys, she came across Prometheus while chained, who gave her hope. He predicted that although she would have to wander for many years, she would eventually be changed back into human form and would bear a child. He predicted that a descendant of this child would be a great hero and would set him free; his predictions came true. Because of her journeys, many geographical features were named after her, including the Ionian Sea, and the Bosporus (which means ford of the cow). She eventually reached the Nile where Zeus restored her human form. She bore Epaphus and eleven generations later, her descendant Heracles would set Prometheus free.

[Equilibrium]

We lost sights from the Satan part so let me mention one more name for the Satan we haven't discussed, Baphomet, his name can mean wisdom, father of wisdom, baptism of wisdom or baptism of fire. He symbolizes Mercury in Tarot which is one more planet referred to as Morning Star.

His symbol is

The goat on the frontispiece carries the sign of the pentagram on the forehead, with one point at the top, a symbol of light, his two hands forming the sign of occultism, the one pointing up to the white moon of Chesed, the other pointing down to the black one of Geburah.

Which it self was derived from earlier figures

These little images are of stone, partly hermaphrodites, having, generally, two heads or two faces, with a beard, but, in other respects, female figures, most of them accompanied by serpents, the sun and moon

As a Satan he represents both serpent and the lion

Serpent and the Lion, Mystery of Mystery, in His name BAPHOMET

He evokes again theme of comet (sperm) and moon (egg)

Baphomet is further a representative of the spiritual nature of the spermatozoa while also being symbolic of the "magical child" produced as a result of sex magic

[Mithras]

The immortal Prometheus was bound to a rock, where each day an eagle, the emblem of Zeus, was sent to feed on his liver, which would then grow back to be eaten again the next day. (In ancient Greece, the liver was thought to be the seat of human emotions.)

“Lord Snow,” said Cotter Pyke, “if you muck this up, I’m going to rip your liver out and eat it raw with onions.”

Ser Denys Mallister was more courteous.

Cotter Pyke threatens to eat the liver of Jon raw. The sigil of House Mallister is an eagle.

[Equilibrium]

With Azor Ahai being the Sun, moon is only fitting candidate for the Great Other, and if the fallen fragment of the moon is the Drowned God then Morroqo is right Drowned God is thrall of the Great Other

Your Drowned God is a demon,” the black priest Moqorro said afterward. “He is no more than a thrall of the Other, the dark god whose name must not be spoken"

[White Ravens]

I am late coming to the second incarnation of this thread. Real life things kept me away. Once again, lots of delicious food for thought to chew on.

I'm a little hung up on the idea that the destructive collision between a comet and the second moon had to happen while the moon was in a solar eclipse. And forgive me if this has already been challenged and explained.

The moon that we enjoy in our skies is huge compared to earth. So huge that I have seen the pair referred to as a double planet. Regarding our moon during solar eclipse, its diameter and distance from earth are proportionate to our much larger and more distant sun. This results in them having the same apparent size in our sky and allows the moon to almost precisely cover the face of the sun during an eclipse. Theories about the evolution of life on Earth are connected to the strong tidal forces exerted on earth by our large moon, so let's assume that the larger moon that still orbits Planetos looks roughly the size of Earth's moon. The second moon would likely have been much smaller or else its destruction would have completely changed the surface of Planetos and wiped out all life. A smaller moon would be much harder to see during daylight hours and would not be the dramatic thing we see here during a solar eclipse because it wouldn't be large enough to blot out the sun and create darkness on Planetos. It would appear as a dark spot passing across the disk of the sun. There have been some comets recorded as bright enough to be seen during daylight hours but in this scenario we are talking about a comet that would be so bright that you could see it even as it passed in front of the sun in broad daylight. Comets have large and highly elliptical orbits and we see them brighten as they rush from the outer solar system towards the sun and as they heat up their tails begin to stream away from them, blown by the solar wind. The tail looks like it streams behind the comet like streamers on a bicycle, but it actually points away from the sun, regardless of the direction it is travelling. A comet would not strike a small moon in solar eclipse alignment as it rushes in toward the sun because the planet would be in the way and the comet would hit the planet. After the comet rushes by the planet and passes close to the sun it speeds up and travels back out towards the outer solar system. This obital path could lead to it hitting the smaller moon but from the perspective of the planet it would be right in front of the sun and likely invisible. It's tail would precede it on its way, but the tail would be pointed directly at the planet and not streaming off to the side where a nice sword mepaphore would apply. I think that the collision must have happened in the evening or night sky when the small moon and the comet complete with a tail would be more dramatically visible to the people on the planet below.

[Modesty Lannister]

With Azor Ahai being the Sun, moon is only fitting candidate for the Great Other, and if the fallen fragment of the moon is the Drowned God then Morroqo is right Drowned God is thrall of the Great Other

:agree:

[LmL]

I am late coming to the second incarnation of this thread. Real life things kept me away. Once again, lots of delicious food for thought to chew on.

I'm a little hung up on the idea that the destructive collision between a comet and the second moon had to happen while the moon was in a solar eclipse. And forgive me if this has already been challenged and explained.

The moon that we enjoy in our skies is huge compared to earth. So huge that I have seen the pair referred to as a double planet. Regarding our moon during solar eclipse, its diameter and distance from earth are proportionate to our much larger and more distant sun. This results in them having the same apparent size in our sky and allows the moon to almost precisely cover the face of the sun during an eclipse. Theories about the evolution of life on Earth are connected to the strong tidal forces exerted on earth by our large moon, so let's assume that the larger moon that still orbits Planetos looks roughly the size of Earth's moon. The second moon would likely have been much smaller or else its destruction would have completely changed the surface of Planetos and wiped out all life. A smaller moon would be much harder to see during daylight hours and would not be the dramatic thing we see here during a solar eclipse because it wouldn't be large enough to blot out the sun and create darkness on Planetos. It would appear as a dark spot passing across the disk of the sun. There have been some comets recorded as bright enough to be seen during daylight hours but in this scenario we are talking about a comet that would be so bright that you could see it even as it passed in front of the sun in broad daylight. Comets have large and highly elliptical orbits and we see them brighten as they rush from the outer solar system towards the sun and as they heat up their tails begin to stream away from them, blown by the solar wind. The tail looks like it streams behind the comet like streamers on a bicycle, but it actually points away from the sun, regardless of the direction it is travelling. A comet would not strike a small moon in solar eclipse alignment as it rushes in toward the sun because the planet would be in the way and the comet would hit the planet. After the comet rushes by the planet and passes close to the sun it speeds up and travels back out towards the outer solar system. This obital path could lead to it hitting the smaller moon but from the perspective of the planet it would be right in front of the sun and likely invisible. It's tail would precede it on its way, but the tail would be pointed directly at the planet and not streaming off to the side where a nice sword mepaphore would apply. I think that the collision must have happened in the evening or night sky when the small moon and the comet complete with a tail would be more dramatically visible to the people on the planet below.

I’m way short on time because I’m moving today, but I enjoyed your comments... I think it was a DOUBLE eclipse - both moons in front of the sun. The single best proof is the tale of Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, which I plan to direct in Part 3. But if you want to get ahead, consider that heliotrope is sun mirror. Serwyn is the bigger, surviving moon. The dragon is the comet. The King he is guarding is Planets. The spear is the other half of the comet streaking by in between the two moons, or along side them. See what you think.

[LmL]

The immortal Prometheus was bound to a rock, where each day an eagle, the emblem of Zeus, was sent to feed on his liver, which would then grow back to be eaten again the next day. (In ancient Greece, the liver was thought to be the seat of human emotions.)

“Lord Snow,” said Cotter Pyke, “if you muck this up, I’m going to rip your liver out and eat it raw with onions.”

Ser Denys Mallister was more courteous.

Cotter Pyke threatens to eat the liver of Jon raw. The sigil of House Mallister is an eagle.

Terrific stuff. No time to comment... but yes. Thoughts are happening.

[LmL]

With Azor Ahai being the Sun, moon is only fitting candidate for the Great Other, and if the fallen fragment of the moon is the Drowned God then Morroqo is right Drowned God is thrall of the Great Other

I think I agree with that also

[LmL]

EVERYONE STOP WHAT YOU’RE DOING. And go read this.

Daenerys is the Amethyst Empress Reborn - Duran Durrandon has written an excellent companion piece taking a closer look at the Amethyst Empress and her connections to Daenerys Targaryen. This is a must-read that dovetails nicely into Part 2 of my on series. I hope to feature more such companion pieces, and anyone who would like to work off of the general astronomy premise and post their own ideas is absolutely invited to do so. I’d like to see this expand into a broader circle of writings on the mythology of Planetos and the events of the Dawn Age & Long Night. My idea was to put the astronomy frame in people’s heads so that everyone can apply it to the ASOIAF material they know the best and uncover more secrets. I don’t even mind if you want to draw differing conclusions from the evidence I have put forward - if it’s decent, I’d still like to link to it. That way readers can examine different ideas along the same lines. So step on up.