Black Crow Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 It could go that way with respect to Bran staying.The thing with Rickon is why exclude him from the synopsis and pretty much exclude him from the series almost completely.Without the dramatics and lack of POV Rickon has pretty much gone through the same process as the Summer king arch.Hidden away by the goddess(Osha in this case) until and awaiting emergence again in his due time.I just can't see GRRM not using him in the first place,to write about him and not use him effectively.That's not only a giant middle finger but a waist of time. That's why I have trouble deciding what to make of Rickon. We've never had a POV and he's basically just the whiny little brother. He may have been added to the original family by way of rounding it off, or he may literally have been a spare on hand to develop if things didn't work out [in terms of writing] with one or other of the original character arcs. I've no doubt we'll see him again and he may make a pretty death but I really don't see him at this very late stage taking on a principal role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 That's why I have trouble deciding what to make of Rickon. We've never had a POV and he's basically just the whiny little brother. He may have been added to the original family by way of rounding it off, or he may literally have been a spare on hand to develop if things didn't work out [in terms of writing] with one or other of the original character arcs. I've no doubt we'll see him again and he may make a pretty death but I really don't see him at this very late stage taking on a principal role. Yeah Rickon is the one who is dismissed,the wild,whiny brother which makes me believe he is important not because of what he can do but because of who he is.Him being so hidden also leads me to believe he's important,i dearsay more important than Bran not story wise but as a foundation from which new things can emerge. His story reminds me remarkably of David or even Percival in one rendition of the grail lore.Boys who were overlooked,dismissed because they seem to be lacking in what societal or religious deemed important. In Rickon's case he's it might be the same.The stones that the builders rejected...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SacredOrderOfGreenMen Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I really don't know about Rickon. Yeah he might come back, good or bad, but its getting a bit late for him to make a convincing contribution. He wasn't one of the original five character arcs and whether he makes it through or proves to be expendable in the end its those five who are going to to see the resolution, even if one or two of them die making it happen. Bran's return I think is going to be a matter of redemption rather than treking or voyaging hundreds of miles through the centre of the Earth. The first synopsis spoke of him turning to magic to try to walk again and then turning to magic for magic's sake which is what we're seeing. And then the second speaks of maester and greenseer working together and this I think could be singular; that we're not going to see men and the three-fingered tree-huggers standing together or be seeing all the surviving Starks, Bran included, standing shoulder to shoulder at Winterfell's gates. Its more likely I think that Bran will remain in the cave of skulls, recalling his humanity and helping to defeat the old powers from within. I would ask you to consider my work here on my analysis of Arya and Bran's roles in the Long Night. And my work analysis here on Bran as the Fisher King Both of which you are free to make up your mind about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I would ask you to consider my work here on my analysis of Arya and Bran's roles in the Long Night. And my work analysis here on Bran as the Fisher King Both of which you are free to make up your mind about. SOFTGM: I just read these awesome write up on that.I really love love love the connection to the SIWF to the Fisher King.A time back we had touched on this and the concept of the goddess(land) and her consort king the ruler of the land.This is really an amazing piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SacredOrderOfGreenMen Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 SOFTGM: I just read these awesome write up on that.I really love love love the connection to the SIWF to the Fisher King.A time back we had touched on this and the concept of the goddess(land) and her consort king the ruler of the land.This is really an amazing piece. I'm glad you enjoyed it and flattered! BearQueen and others in other threads have made connections between ASOIAF and Greek mythology. Bran's story has many echoes between the family of myths you speak of, where the secondary and younger male goddess dies every winter for the sake of the Earth Goddess and is reborn in the spring, symbolizing the life-death-rebirth of the natural world. The role of the "Stark in Winterfell" could be categorized as a sacrifice of the Adonis-order; GRRM has affirmed that there has a never been a ruling Queen in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 That's why I have trouble deciding what to make of Rickon. We've never had a POV and he's basically just the whiny little brother. He may have been added to the original family by way of rounding it off, or he may literally have been a spare on hand to develop if things didn't work out [in terms of writing] with one or other of the original character arcs. I've no doubt we'll see him again and he may make a pretty death but I really don't see him at this very late stage taking on a principal role. Rickon has been relatively excluded from the story, but I also can't forget this: He would always ask her that. “In the kitchen, arguing about names for the wolf pups.” She spread her cloak on the forest floor and sat beside the pool, her back to the weirwood. She could feel the eyes watching her, but she did her best to ignore them. “Arya is already in love, and Sansa is charmed and gracious, but Rickon is not quite sure.” “Is he afraid?” Ned asked. “A little,” she admitted. “He is only three.” Ned frowned. “He must learn to face his fears. He will not be three forever. And winter is coming.” Despite being only three years old, Ned is confused that Rickon is afraid of a freaking direwolf, and more or less says that Rickon needs to man up. And we do see that Rickon does this, and he becomes an incredible force His baby brother had been wild as a winter storm since he learned Robb was riding off to war, weeping and angry by turns. He’d refused to eat, cried and screamed for most of a night, even punched Old Nan when she tried to sing him to sleep, and the next day he’d vanished. Robb had set half the castle searching for him, and when at last they’d found him down in the crypts, Rickon had slashed at them with a rusted iron sword he’d snatched from a dead king’s hand, and Shaggydog had come slavering out of the darkness like a green-eyed demon. The wolf was near as wild as Rickon; he’d bitten Gage on the arm and torn a chunk of flesh from Mikken’s thigh. It had taken Robb himself and Grey Wind to bring him to bay. Farlen had the black wolf chained up in the kennels now, and Rickon cried all the more for being without him. GRRM has already given us the groundwork that Rickon could be incredible. Of course the problem remains that Rickon is only 5 years old, but good god could be ferocious if given time. The fact that he's been supposedly on Skagos can't help but have toughened him even more, and we already have characters looking for him to try and unite around. Which I also can't help but see a massive parallel here, intentional or not: “As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name.” The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid. “The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world.” Rickon right now is the figurehead that the north is trying to rally behind. The stallion that mounts the world prophecy has their leader being the head of a great host. Rickon fulfills that if the north rallies behind him. The stallion that mounts the world is supposed to be a prince as fierce as a storm. Rickon is a prince, and he's already been described to be as fierce as a winter storm. The stallion that mounts the world will be announced by the bells in his hair that show that he's not been defeated, seeing as Dothraki cut their hair after every defeat. Well we know that Rickon was last seen growing out his hair, which by Dothraki custom would mean he hasn't been defeated. And finally, the milk men in stone tents will fear him. Rickon is being used to oust the Boltons who have currently occupied Winterfell. Winterfell is a stone tent, and the Boltons are extremely pale from their leechings. So I don't know if the parallels are unintentional, but it seems that there's an argument that Rickon could be the stallion that mounts the world, if one will be featured. Especially when you compare it with the first quote with Ned, where Ned says that Rickon needs to be ready for winter, and here we have Rickon's involvement seemingly coming to the fore with winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Cooterian Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=11&v=BabsgCQhpu4 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: You guys got to watch this ,Jon Snow at a Seth Meyers Dinner party Bravo wm7 that was entertaining to the last bit. I especially like the bit where Jon raised up from behind a chair with dinner knives stuck between his knuckles. My first impulse was hey, what a great Wolverine impression, but actually, I think it was the "not so adorable" 3-fingered tree huggers. Also liked the the stand in red head. Was a smart skit indeed. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Rickon has been relatively excluded from the story, but I also can't forget this: Despite being only three years old, Ned is confused that Rickon is afraid of a freaking direwolf, and more or less says that Rickon needs to man up. And we do see that Rickon does this, and he becomes an incredible force GRRM has already given us the groundwork that Rickon could be incredible. Of course the problem remains that Rickon is only 5 years old, but good god could be ferocious if given time. The fact that he's been supposedly on Skagos can't help but have toughened him even more, and we already have characters looking for him to try and unite around. Which I also can't help but see a massive parallel here, intentional or not: Rickon right now is the figurehead that the north is trying to rally behind. The stallion that mounts the world prophecy has their leader being the head of a great host. Rickon fulfills that if the north rallies behind him. The stallion that mounts the world is supposed to be a prince as fierce as a storm. Rickon is a prince, and he's already been described to be as fierce as a winter storm. The stallion that mounts the world will be announced by the bells in his hair that show that he's not been defeated, seeing as Dothraki cut their hair after every defeat. Well we know that Rickon was last seen growing out his hair, which by Dothraki custom would mean he hasn't been defeated. And finally, the milk men in stone tents will fear him. Rickon is being used to oust the Boltons who have currently occupied Winterfell. Winterfell is a stone tent, and the Boltons are extremely pale from their leechings. So I don't know if the parallels are unintentional, but it seems that there's an argument that Rickon could be the stallion that mounts the world, if one will be featured. Especially when you compare it with the first quote with Ned, where Ned says that Rickon needs to be ready for winter, and here we have Rickon's involvement seemingly coming to the fore with winter.I don't think he's the stallion that mounts the world.Still think that's one of Dany's Dragons.But Shaggy being chained is one of the reasons I think Jojen got it wrong and it is really Rickon that is the Winged wolf.One of GRRM play's with prophecies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Bravo wm7 that was entertaining to the last bit. I especially like the bit where Jon raised up from behind a chair with dinner knives stuck between his knuckles. My first impulse was hey, what a great Wolverine impression, but actually, I think it was the "not so adorable" 3-fingered tree huggers. Also liked the the stand in red head. Was a smart skit indeed. Thanks for sharing.No problem.Thought we all could do with a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion XX Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I once many, many Heresies ago connected the Stallion That Mounts The World prohecy to Aegon/Young Griff and it seemed well received at the time. I'll see if I can rewind the clock 115ish Heresies and at least a few pounds and find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenOfVibe Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Hail Heretics,this might be OT,the not right thread,the not right board,but I esteem you lot immensely,so here goes...In the Histories&Lore section on the Season 1 Bluray,Luwin refers to Ned as "Rickard's YOUNGEST son."WTF???Apologies if this has been pointed out before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion XX Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 That sounds like an error.Too many of the actors haven't read the books :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 The one problem with Chekov's Gun here is that GRRM has 17,649 Chekov's Guns to use in the final 2 books. I counted 17,650. You may not have Ser Pounce in your count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Hail Heretics,this might be OT,the not right thread,the not right board,but I esteem you lot immensely,so here goes...In the Histories&Lore section on the Season 1 Bluray,Luwin refers to Ned as "Rickard's YOUNGEST son."WTF???Apologies if this has been pointed out before... I just saw this,really? That's got to be an error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Sounds like an error on the Bluray, unless... Ned and Benjen were switched as young boys. The real Ned is now lost beyond the Wall. The real Benjen lost his head to Ilyn Payne. Just as likely as Jojenpaste ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Exactly. A dance, without dancing, is... what, exactly? Nice post. Lot of good "stew" to digest there ;) I'm glad you made it over to Heresy, Evolett :cheers: Agreed. And again, nice post. But the reality is, we need Ice and Fire... Cold and Heat... Life and Death... We cannot hope to eradicate one or the other. One wonders if one can even exist without the other, in GRRM's universe...Yep. The eternal summer belief is only a myth and wish. Mel and her Red partners that want a summer that never ends will have to take it on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Yep. The eternal summer belief is only a myth and wish. Mel and her Red partners that want a summer that never ends will have to take it on the other side. Actually,this thought is also in the mind of the Maesters at lease some of them per Pycelle.When speaking to Ned after he arrived at KL. "As the girl went to fetch their drinks, the Grand Maester knotted his fingers together and rested his hands on his stomach. “The smallfolk say that the last year of summer is always the hottest. It is not so, yet ofttimes it feels that way, does it not? On days like this, I envy you northerners your summer snows.” The heavy jeweled chain around the old man’s neck chinked softly as he shifted in his seat. “To be sure, King Maekar’s summer was hotter than this one, and near as long. There were fools, even in the Citadel, who took that to mean that the Great Summer had come at last, the summer that never ends, but in the seventh year it broke suddenly, and we had a short autumn and a terrible long winter. Still, the heat was fierce while it lasted. Oldtown steamed and sweltered by day and came alive only by night. We would walk in the gardens by the river and argue about the gods. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenOfVibe Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I dunno,never "trust" a maester???This REALLY made me break out the Reynolds Wrap though....WHAT IF, Benjen IS a bastard thru Brandon,Ned&Lyanna's MOTHER who we really don't know a heck of alot about?Could explain ALOT.Time 4me to resume cracking pots...Bloody Chivas.....-chuckling- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Yep. The eternal summer belief is only a myth and wish. Mel and her Red partners that want a summer that never ends will have to take it on the other side. It's a typical method for cult leaders: play into the hopes and legends of the common folk. Mel evokes an ancient truth when she talks about light vs shadow. No one can deny that fire provides light and warmth against a cold dark night. Fire is good. We cook with fire. And fire means life during the winter. A summer that never ends sounds like the ultimate beach vacation, and the small folk think a never ending summer would be free of hardship, and bountiful. In reality Mel offers neither. The only gift she's brought into the world, are shadow assassins. She is a shadowbinder. Hers is not the power of Fire. Hers is the twisted, corrupted, power of shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion XX Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I counted 17,650. You may not have Ser Pounce in your count.I think you counted Ser Pounce twice. I was missing Stannis's Tooth Powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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