Joe Pesci Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 What about Cat? I'm not being defensive; she has real ups and downs, but imo the final product (before Un-ness) was one of the most three dimensional characters in the book. She seems very much like someone you could meet in real life to me. I'm just not a fan. She started the whole mess with wanting Ned to be Hand, which cost him his head, then let Jaime free which led to the whole Karstark mess and Robb needing the Freys back. We know how that worked out. Seems like she just wants to have her cake and eat it too I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Clegane Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Daenyrus. Everything about her, both books and show! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnar of Skagos Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Indoor torches, especially in vaults and jails and windowless / chimneyless rooms or corridors. We see this with Varys in AGOT, for example, when he visits Ned in his cell, among many other instances throughout the books. Not exactly historically accurate in my book. It might be fantasy, but it's based on and inspired by history and realism, after all. Real life medieval torches were mostly soaked in tar or bitumen or pitch. That stuff stinks to high heaven. Even more so when burning. Have you ever smelled burning tires? Yeah, it's similar to that, only worse. Now imagine you're in a closed room. Hmmm, delicious... Look at all the black smoke! Seriously, your eyes would be streaming with tears, you couldn't see anything. And first and foremost, you couln't breath properly and might even suffocate. Also, a torch only burns for a small limited time, let's say half an hour. I'm wondering, who is constantly running around the castle corridors and cellars and dungeons to change these torches? And who is paying the money to put all these torches to waste? Modern, more or less smokeless torches fueled with paraffin / kerosene weren't invented, yet. The stuff you see in movies is utter BS - born out of necessety to properly illuminate certain night scenes for the camera. In medieval times, there were no rows of torches lit on castle walls. And indoors, medieval people generally used candles, candles in lanterns and oil lamps. Hey that's actually pretty interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendel Shoemaker Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I think it's a bit silly to say that these lords and ladies can't have any complaints because the peasents have it much worse, while we mid to upper class people who talk on this forum have our own issues we complain about without thinking about the people living in the middle east or those homeless in our own area. Your problems will always be relative to your class and valid to yourself. More on topic, Catelyn's constant sadness over her dead family annoyed me and I was glad when she died because her POV's were over. I like her as a character, but I felt like her chapters in ACOK and ASOS dragged too much and I was tired of her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnar of Skagos Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I think it's a bit silly to say that these lords and ladies can't have any complaints because the peasents have it much worse, while we mid to upper class people who talk on this forum have our own issues we complain about without thinking about the people living in the middle east or those homeless in our own area. Your problems will always be relative to your class and valid to yourself. More on topic, Catelyn's constant sadness over her dead family annoyed me and I was glad when she died because her POV's were over. I like her as a character, but I felt like her chapters in ACOK and ASOS dragged too much and I was tired of her. Aye, it's a bit like saying the peasants can't be happy because the nobility have it better than them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I'm just not a fan. She started the whole mess with wanting Ned to be Hand, which cost him his head, then let Jaime free which led to the whole Karstark mess and Robb needing the Freys back. We know how that worked out. Seems like she just wants to have her cake and eat it too I guess. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8kxlNpyzrE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Stannis Baratheons penisachachachaaaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 What about Cat? I'm not being defensive; she has real ups and downs, but imo the final product (before Un-ness) was one of the most three dimensional characters in the book. She seems very much like someone you could meet in real life to me. If only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I'm just not a fan. She started the whole mess with wanting Ned to be Hand, which cost him his head, then let Jaime free which led to the whole Karstark mess and Robb needing the Freys back. We know how that worked out. Seems like she just wants to have her cake and eat it too I guess. She made her choices. And others did too. Ned chose to be Hand, Cat didn't force him. Then she asked him to stay after Bran's fall, so that's hardly "starting the whole mess." And by the "whole mess" do you mean the war? That was all the players in KL who were making moves against Robert and the Starks from before and during the beginning of the story. Karstark also made his choice. The difference between his and Cat's is that no children were killed in cold blood because of hers. Also, why can't people have their cake and eat it too? I hate that phrase. If I bake myself a cake, damn straight I'm gonna eat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ella Dendron Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Robb's will and people who believe that Jon will rule the North because of it.Edmure Tully getting shat on all the time.Fans' inability to spell character's names even though they are sitting on the internet and can google it.L+R=J neverending treats.Targaryen apologists.Daario Naharis and his blue balls... I mean hair.The existence of Dragons.Storylines in Essos.Secret Targaryens.No Storm's End.Greyjoy uncles.Tyrion Lannister (you said small things, right?) Should I continue? :drunk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorVoid Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Fans' inability to spell character's names even though they are sitting on the internet and can google it. There is no canon version of pronunciation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ella Dendron Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 There is no canon version of pronunciation. I meant "spell" in written form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I think it's a bit silly to say that these lords and ladies can't have any complaints because the peasents have it much worse, while we mid to upper class people who talk on this forum have our own issues we complain about without thinking about the people living in the middle east or those homeless in our own area. Your problems will always be relative to your class and valid to yourself. More on topic, Catelyn's constant sadness over her dead family annoyed me and I was glad when she died because her POV's were over. I like her as a character, but I felt like her chapters in ACOK and ASOS dragged too much and I was tired of her.Anyone can complain. That's not the issue; seeing themselves as victims of the system which rewards their birth with near absolute power over almost every other human is ridiculous. The books are great, but they are not Dickens or Native Son or the Handmaid's Tale. Or, rather, if they are, it's sure not about the nobility we read about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 People who love a charactor so much that they are blinded by the actions of the charactor (while I am a fan of Stannis, he done some stupid things like giving in to pressure by allowing the attempt to burn Edric Storm). He called Gilly a whore :crying:, George why you so mean to us? We just want to love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Daenyrus. Everything about her, both books and show! Thats not exactly what i would call "a small thing." Ghiscari culture only revolving around the slave trade bugs me. Cuz it just feels impossible that an entire ancient culture revolves solely around one thing. There has to be more to it than that. I dont recall any real discussion about their religion. What about the little cultural things like how Ghiscari women interact with each other. What exactly does their art mean? Do they have songs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Pesci Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 She made her choices. And others did too. Ned chose to be Hand, Cat didn't force him. Then she asked him to stay after Bran's fall, so that's hardly "starting the whole mess." And by the "whole mess" do you mean the war? That was all the players in KL who were making moves against Robert and the Starks from before and during the beginning of the story. Karstark also made his choice. The difference between his and Cat's is that no children were killed in cold blood because of hers. Also, why can't people have their cake and eat it too? I hate that phrase. If I bake myself a cake, damn straight I'm gonna eat it. How is Ned supposed to stay after agreeing to be Hand? It's tough to think that he would be able to go back on his word even after Bran falling. As for the war, how does killing Jon Arryn to keep from telling Robert about the "twincest" translate into moving against the Starks when they have no interests in anything in KL at the time of the murder? I may be wrong but wasn't the plan to get Robert to name Jaime as Hand? I know it was suggested on the show but I haven't read GOT in a while so I'm not sure if it was in the book or not. And yeah Karstark made his choice, but would he have killed the children if Jaime wasn't freed? It's certainly a possibility but who knows? And also, I like cake too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 How is Ned supposed to stay after agreeing to be Hand? It's tough to think that he would be able to go back on his word even after Bran falling. As for the war, how does killing Jon Arryn to keep from telling Robert about the "twincest" translate into moving against the Starks when they have no interests in anything in KL at the time of the murder? I may be wrong but wasn't the plan to get Robert to name Jaime as Hand? I know it was suggested on the show but I haven't read GOT in a while so I'm not sure if it was in the book or not. And yeah Karstark made his choice, but would he have killed the children if Jaime wasn't freed? It's certainly a possibility but who knows? And also, I like cake too. 1. He can choose his nearly dead son over a king who straight up told him he wants him to run the kingdom so he doesn't have to? It was Ned's choice and he made it. There's nothing to suggest he couldn't refuse. 2. I meant Littlefinger and Lysa moving against the Starks before the story begins (that happens before the prologue) and Jaime, Cersei, and Joffrey all trying to kill Bran. There's no justification for that. 3. He may not have, but that doesn't excuse his actions. Catelyn didn't force him to kill ally guards and then children. Again, it was a choice he made. 4. My favorite is devil's food with whipped cream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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