Robb married because of Cat

[Hugorfonics]

"You can't be Lord of Winterfell, you're bastard-born. My lady mother says you can't ever be the Lord of Winterfell."

Catelyn has a nice life, but is always quick to get angry, guilty, sad, very negative emotions when confronting or thinking of Jon. And cannot even forgive Ned, her loving husband

Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away. It was the one thing she could never forgive him. She had come to love her husband with all her heart, but she had never found it in her to love Jon. She might have overlooked a dozen bastards for Ned's sake, so long as they were out of sight. Jon was never out of sight, and as he grew, he looked more like Ned than any of the trueborn sons she bore him. Somehow that made it worse

Robb is clearly aware of his mother's unhappiness regarding Jon

Robb knew something was wrong. "My mother . . . "

"She was . . . very kind," Jon told him.

Robb looked relieved. "Good."

Obviously growing up in this environment will make you not want to repeat it in your adult life.

Jon trembled. "I will never father a bastard," he said carefully. "Never!" He spat it out like venom.

Jons thinking is probably identical to Robbs, after all they were inseparable they're whole lives.

Ser Kevan answered. "He chose the girl's honor over his own. Once he had deflowered her, he had no other course

Ser Kevan is not 100% right. I believe Robb chose his seeds honor

[Mladen]

Except the little fact that Jeyne was never pregnant in the first place.

[Beron Stark]

Except the little fact that Jeyne was never pregnant in the first place.

Exactly. It could be true if Jeyne were pregnant and Robb knew, but that was not the case.

[Hugorfonics]

Except the little fact that Jeyne was never pregnant in the first place.

We don't know that. And Robb certainly didn't. Children are accidents, Robb just built a safety net

[Leonardo]

We don't know that. And Robb certainly didn't. Children are accidents, Robb just built a safety net

She was taking moon tea her mother was giving her, so yes we do know.

[Hugorfonics]

She was taking moon tea her mother was giving her, so yes we do know.

But Jaime's Jeyne looks different then Cat's Jeyne.

Though its probably the same girl, regardless Robb knew none of this

[Beron Stark]

She was taking moon tea her mother was giving her, so yes we do know.

Some people believe Robb has an heir... :dunno:

You know, other than Jon.

The theory is not that far fetched, if I'm being completely honest. I've seen worse

But Robb had no reason to believe Jeyne was pregnant (I don't think there is any controversy here) so marrying her "just in case" seems a bit... insane?

[LordStoneheart]

This is ridiculous. Fuck, even Tywin who doesn't even know Robb connects it to Ned and his honor. That is because of Ned and Jon, not Catelyn. Ned took care of his bastard in his own castle. Just as Robb executes Karstark himself because it's how Ned taught him, he decides to wed Jeyne for her honor and any child he might leave her. If not for Catelyn securing him an offer from Walder Frey, Robb would not have been anywhere near as successful as he was in his war. Robb made his choice, and even if, and that's a big damn IF, it was influenced by Cat, which it wasn't, that is not "because" of her. It was his own choice and blaming it on Cat won't resolve him of blame. Need I also remind you that it wouldn't have even happened had Robb listened to Cat in the first place about not sending Theon to Pyke.

[ummester]

What is possible, even likely, is that Robb's decision making process re women was shaped by his mother and father's actions and behaviour. That Cat disliked Jon being Ned's bastard probably made Robb more determined to marry Jeyne, regardless of whether she was pregnant or not.

Meh, it makes me dislike Ned. Even if he kept Jon's parentage secret because he was afraid of what Bobby B might do to a Targ child, it is gutless and dishonest to his own family. He should have trusted Cat with the truth, instead of putting the whims of some dead sister, or fear of his friend's retaliation above that trust. Ned's behaviour in this instance shits me more than many other characters in the tale, probably because the rest of his behaviour is quite good.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

I always thought the biggest factor to marrying Jeyne was his memory of Jon's life at Winterfell. Just as Jon said he'd never father a bastard, it's clear Robb didn't want to either.

[LordStoneheart]

What is possible, even likely, is that Robb's decision making process re women was shaped by his mother and father's actions and behaviour. That Cat dislike Jon being Ned's bastard probably made Robb more determined to marry Jeyne, regardless of whether she was pregnant or not.

Meh, it makes me dislike Ned. Even if he kept Jon's parentage secret because he was afraid of what Bobby B might do to a Targ child, it is gutless and dishonest to his own family. He should have trusted cat with the truth, instead it feels like he put the whims of some dead sister above those of his wife. Ned's behaviour in this instance shits me more than many other characters in the tale, probably because the rest of his behaviour is quite good.

I guess I can go with a middle ground like this. Robb had two parents.

[Balerion the kitten]

His decision to marry jeyne was very much based on his up bringing, being taught from ned about honour and all that. I agree with your post, but on the idea of the whole jon/ catelyn situation. I don't think it had that much to do with him not wanting a bastard

[Dany Girl]

So now Robb isn't responsible for his own decisions? Cat wasn't anywhere near him when he decided to marry Jayne. And if Cat influenced him to not want to leave bastards scattered across the 7K, then GOOD! Too many irresponsible lords running around the 7K's leaving babies to whatever fate they can scrounge up. Not to mention, Ned was at least an equal party in raising Robb with the moral compass he has, if not a stronger influence.

Robb married Jeyne because he felt responsible for destroying her honor. He says so. Not because he thought she was pregnant. He sacrificed his honor for hers. Who does that sound more like, Ned or Cat? Ya, Ned.

Contrary to at least a few people's opinion, Cat is in fact not responsible for every decision everyone else makes. Not Robb's decisions, not Jon's decisions, definitely not Tywin's decisions.

[ummester]

I guess I can go with a middle ground like this. Robb had two parents.

That's just it, I think most children interpret how to treat the opposite sex from the combined way their parents treat each other.

[Anythingatall]

My first thought it 'why does it matter' but putting that aside I don't see how it's Cat's "fault". Firstly marrying Jeyne was a result of him banging her it was that first decision (the fornication) that was the problem really.

As for the marriage for I would agree that Jon probably has something to do with it. Robb loved Jon and knew that Jons life was harder because he was a bastard and I have no doubt that this would make Robb less blase than most when it comes to producing bastards of his own. For Cat's treatment of Jon to be a primary motivation Robb's thought process would have to be quite bizarre. He would have to assume that if she was preggers he was going to raise the baby as his own and take it away from Jeyne and all the rest of it's family. That's not the norm.

Even putting that aside for Cat to be the reason we would have to assume that Robb was oblivious to all the other shit bastards have to content with. Cat's treatment of Jon didn't stop him going to Kings Landing with his Father, it didn't stop him inheriting land and titles, it didn't limit his options for his adult life. His status as a bastard did all that. To assume Cat was the primary motivation for Robb not wanting to Father a bastard would mean that Robb was cool with all that other stuff.

[Lovely Lyanna]

He should have trusted Cat with the truth, instead of putting the whims of some dead sister, or fear of his friend's retaliation above that trust. Ned's behaviour in this instance shits me more than many other characters in the tale, probably because the rest of his behaviour is quite good.

If the rest of Ned's behavior is quite good as you put it, is his behavior in this instance a one off? Why did he not trust Cat has always intrigued me. They are supposed to have a good and loving marriage, so why did he not trust his biggest secret with her. If Jon is his bastard then maybe he just does not want to hear her complaining, but if Jon is not his son, then he created more complaining by not confiding in Cat. Either way it is curious.

I do think that Cat's behavior toward Jon certainly influenced Robb toward a more honorable reaction to sleeping with Jeyne.

[EastTymor]

Follies done for love? He has bagged me neat as a hare in a snare. I seem to have already forgiven him. Mixed with her annoyance was a rueful admiration; the scene had been staged with the cunning worthy of a master mummer . . . or a king.

. . .

Catelyn did not need to be told what sort of comfort Jeyne Westerling had offered her son. "And you wed her the next day."

He looked in her eyes, proud and miserable all at once. "It was the only honorable thing to do."

ASOS, Catelyn II

Robb goes to great effort to prevent his mother from being able to blame him for breaking the Frey alliance. If your theory is correct, he would have been in a perfect position to administer the coup de grace and place the blame back on Cat when he explains about having sex with Jeyne. You can't blame me for not doing whatever was necessary to avoid siring a bastard. You always hated Jon.

Instead, he explains that it was all about honor. Cat is quite pragmatic. It is Ned who is closely associated with following the honorable course at great cost. It would be more appropriate to say that Robb married because of Ned.

Of course, it would be most appropriate to say that Robb married because of Robb, since he is his own person, as others have pointed out.

[Anythingatall]

If the rest of Ned's behavior is quite good as you put it, is his behavior in this instance a one off? Why did he not trust Cat has always intrigued me. They are supposed to have a good and loving marriage, so why did he not trust his biggest secret with her. If Jon is his bastard then maybe he just does not want to hear her complaining, but if Jon is not his son, then he created more complaining by not confiding in Cat. Either way it is curious.

I think that's fairly straight forward. At first he didn't know her so obviously he wouldn't tell her. Then once he did trust her there are a tonne of reasons why he wouldn't tell her. The most optimistic one would be that he wouldn't want to put her in a position where she was potentially committing treason. Also, if it were me, I wouldn't be thrilled at having somebody in the house whose presence puts my children at risk. Cat was extremely politically savvy, look at how she reacted to Neds initial reluctance to be Hand. I would beat him round the head and ask why he didn't leave him at the Citidel with a bag of gold.

[Lovely Lyanna]

Contrary to at least a few people's opinion, Cat is in fact not responsible for every decision everyone else makes. Not Robb's decisions, not Jon's decisions, definitely not Tywin's decisions.

Cat's recklessness was the root of most of the troubles that fell on the Starks. She may not have directly caused everything, but certainly she started the ball rolling. In the book she threw that ridiculous fit when she received the not from Lysa. I mean Littlefinger played her like a violin on that front. Ned goes off to King's Landing with the girls and she grabs Tyrion. She brokers a ridiculous deal with Walder Frey. She lets the Kingslayer go. The list goes on and on with her. I do agree that Robb should have listened to her on Theon, but at that point her credibility was gone because of her previous bad decisions.

[Anythingatall]

I mean Littlefinger played her like a violin on that front.

I disagree with the rest of your post but I agree with this. Cat's attitude towards Petyr is baffling to the point where I have just written it off as OOC behaviour essential to the plot.