Robert Baratheon vs Gregor Clegane

[mdw4950]

Do we ever get an official mention of how big Robert was?

robert was said to be 6'6. within an inch or so taller than brienne but a little smaller than the hound for comparison. iirc gregor is supposed to be around 7'6-7'8 range.

[Morgul-Blade]

robert was said to be 6'6. within an inch or so taller than brienne but a little smaller than the hound for comparison. iirc gregor is supposed to be around 7'6-7'8 range.

I'm 5'7", and I wouldn't like my chances against a similarly, or even slightly lesser, skilled 6'7" guy.

[mdw4950]

I'm 5'7", and I wouldn't like my chances against a similarly, or even slightly lesser, skilled 6'7" guy.

thats gregors biggest advantage and disadvantage. he relies almost 100% on being the biggest and strongest guy in westeros. a lot of readers think hes about as skilled as shaq would be with a sword, which definitely isnt the case, but hes not in the top tier in terms of strait 'skill.' however he is still a knight with years of experience and training though. its his physical abilities that put him at that top level for the most part.

because of his ridiculous size and strength advantage he never really kept progressing with his training though. this is where we see the hound able to stand toe to toe with him because hes more 'skilled' but still strong enough to defend his attacks, jaime thinking he could still take him even though hes significantly smaller or oberyn able to outsmart him into tiring and losing his composure during a duel.

best comparison would be when you see freak athletes dominate college but never really reach their potential in the pros because their fundamentals or awareness arent up to the professional par. they can still play in the pros and have a couple great highlights but technique holds them back from being great. this is kind of the mountains situation. his physical abilities give him a chance against any fighter in the series but there are also a decent amount of guys who can likely work around those advantages. ok, so there might not be a 'decent amount' of guys that can, but you get the idea lol.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Gregor typically seems to be in the thick of things, he literally launches himself into a spear wall and he is pretty close to the same number of battles as Robert, not that it is a determining factor anyways.

what well known knight has he killed? anyone can smash peasents.

Robert seams to have targeted always the best of the enemy, as silveraxe and rhaegar.

anyone can kill light armored peasants.

[Morgul-Blade]

thats gregors biggest advantage and disadvantage. he relies almost 100% on being the biggest and strongest guy in westeros. a lot of readers think hes about as skilled as shaq would be with a sword, which definitely isnt the case, but hes not in the top tier in terms of strait 'skill.' however he is still a knight with years of experience and training though. its his physical abilities that put him at that top level for the most part.

because of his ridiculous size and strength advantage he never really kept progressing with his training though. this is where we see the hound able to stand toe to toe with him because hes more 'skilled' but still strong enough to defend his attacks, jaime thinking he could still take him even though hes significantly smaller or oberyn able to outsmart him into tiring and losing his composure during a duel.

best comparison would be when you see freak athletes dominate college but never really reach their potential in the pros because their fundamentals or awareness arent up to the professional par. they can still play in the pros and have a couple great highlights but technique holds them back from being great. this is kind of the mountains situation. his physical abilities give him a chance against any fighter in the series but there are also a decent amount of guys who can likely work around those advantages. ok, so there might not be a 'decent amount' of guys that can, but you get the idea lol.

Well put. Somebody must ask GRRM. Then the Bobby v Mountain forum threads can be replaced with Drogo

Side note: this makes me think of playing Super Smash Bros with my friends, and we get into heated debates over which Pokemon is third worst.

[James Arryn]

thats gregors biggest advantage and disadvantage. he relies almost 100% on being the biggest and strongest guy in westeros. a lot of readers think hes about as skilled as shaq would be with a sword, which definitely isnt the case, but hes not in the top tier in terms of strait 'skill.' however he is still a knight with years of experience and training though. its his physical abilities that put him at that top level for the most part.

because of his ridiculous size and strength advantage he never really kept progressing with his training though. this is where we see the hound able to stand toe to toe with him because hes more 'skilled' but still strong enough to defend his attacks, jaime thinking he could still take him even though hes significantly smaller or oberyn able to outsmart him into tiring and losing his composure during a duel.

best comparison would be when you see freak athletes dominate college but never really reach their potential in the pros because their fundamentals or awareness arent up to the professional par. they can still play in the pros and have a couple great highlights but technique holds them back from being great. this is kind of the mountains situation. his physical abilities give him a chance against any fighter in the series but there are also a decent amount of guys who can likely work around those advantages. ok, so there might not be a 'decent amount' of guys that can, but you get the idea lol.

Not sure this is true.

He's also very good at the joust, and that takes a lot of skill. I don't see any real evidence that he lacks skill. Of course his physical attributes are his greatest advantage, but that would be true of anyone who is much bigger and stronger than everyone else. It is to a lesser degree true of Sandor, Robert, the Greatjon, Brienne, Dunk, etc.

[mdw4950]

Not sure this is true.

He's also very good at the joust, and that takes a lot of skill. I don't see any real evidence that he lacks skill. Of course his physical attributes are his greatest advantage, but that would be true of anyone who is much bigger and stronger than everyone else. It is to a lesser degree true of Sandor, Robert, the Greatjon, Brienne, Dunk, etc.

i didnt mean to say he doesnt have skill so sorry if it came off that way. kind of meant the opposite that he has a lot more than most readers give him credit for. its just that with his size and strength it seems like he stopped focusing on getting better and then relied on brute force over further improving - which hinders him when compared to the top tier of fighters. even though gregor is still in that top tier class its more because of his physical abilities over his actual skill. if he was the same size as say sandor, whos still one of the bigger characters in the series, he would probably be considered a very good fighter but not the elite.

[Connor Stone]

And the fantasy that Robert was a warrior of unmatched stature continues.

He was a strong man, and a very formidable foe. But there is no evidence that he was in the Arthur Dayne, Barristan Selmy, Jaime Lannister or Gregor Clegane league.

Who puts Gregor Clegane in that league? Where is the evidence Clegane is in the elite of the elite? Don't get me wrong, he is a great warrior, but I don't see him as the epitome of elite.

[WolfgangII]

I agree with what most have said: Gregor is good, but he relays on strenght superiority, and if Robert can withstand that, he could beat him. This fight is about who can land the first (and probably only necessary) hit. One struck of Gregor's enormous longsword will cut Robert in pieces; one blow from Robert's heavy warhammer will crush Gregor's armor and organs. So, who can move fast enough (and dance better with his feet) to avoid his enemy strokes and land his? My bet is Robert.

Now, can we move to who will win between Aemon "The Dragonknight" and Ser Arthur Dayne? Dark Sister or Dawn?

[markg171]

And the fantasy that Robert was a warrior of unmatched stature continues.

He was a strong man, and a very formidable foe. But there is no evidence that he was in the Arthur Dayne, Barristan Selmy, Jaime Lannister or Gregor Clegane league.

You mean 4 guys who were all defeated in combat?

[Poppa Bolton]

Who puts Gregor Clegane in that league? Where is the evidence Clegane is in the elite of the elite? Don't get me wrong, he is a great warrior, but I don't see him as the epitome of elite.

I'm pretty sure GRRM put him in that league.

[ummester]

Who puts Gregor Clegane in that league? Where is the evidence Clegane is in the elite of the elite? Don't get me wrong, he is a great warrior, but I don't see him as the epitome of elite.

Gregor may not be the nicest of people but I think he is defined as around about as tough and effective as a warrior in ASoIaF comes.

Don't forget that he is described as being surprisingly fast and having some uncanny amount of battle sense. He's like some agile human tank, or the epitome of that kind of black knight myth. He's scary because he is kind of unbeatable - that's how I read him, anyways.

[Poorboy78]

Robert would have won against Gregor, the mountain would have fallen.

[Boarsbane]

what well known knight has he killed? anyone can smash peasents.

Robert seams to have targeted always the best of the enemy, as silveraxe and rhaegar.

anyone can kill light armored peasants.

Beric multiple times and Oberyn Martell.

Also I could of sworn Barristan was the better than Rhaegar.

Yes I am sure in the numerous battles Gregor has fought in he has just killed poorly armed peasants.

[Magnar of Skagos]

Robert in his prime might have a good chance of winning.

[Hound_Reborn]

Gregor may not be the nicest of people but I think he is defined as around about as tough and effective as a warrior in ASoIaF comes.

Don't forget that he is described as being surprisingly fast and having some uncanny amount of battle sense. He's like some agile human tank, or the epitome of that kind of black knight myth. He's scary because he is kind of unbeatable - that's how I read him, anyways.

Where does it say that? It says it about Sandor being surprisingly quick, but I don't remember Gregor being described as quick, heck, he came across as sluggish in the TBC against Oberyn when he killed the stable boy. And I will always have the memory of Jaime thinking the bear in Harrenhal was both quicker & smarter than Gregor.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Beric multiple times and Oberyn Martell.

Also I could of sworn Barristan was the better than Rhaegar.

Yes I am sure in the numerous battles Gregor has fought in he has just killed poorly armed peasants.

beric doesnt count, he gives a shit about daying. And there were two times, not many. And it is not clear it was in a strictly combat situation.

and his fight against oberyn was not really succesful after all.

Robert Baratheon was never defeated in combat. By NOBODY. And none of the guys you people name have fought in as many battles as him. Sorry but thats a fact. 8 Accounted battles, always in first line fighting the best warriors of the enemy. Nobody is as proben, tested than him.

A guy fights more than anybody else, and never gets his ass kicked by any known human, but somehow he is a myth, with a lower rate that known loosers with many less battles under their belts. A guy quoted as "legendary" by Martin, and as "the laughing storm reborn". A guy who ended a 300 years dinasty with his warhammer.

[Boarsbane]

beric doesnt count, he gives a shit about daying. And there were two times, not many. And it is not clear it was in a strictly combat situation.

and his fight against oberyn was not really succesful after all.

Robert Baratheon was never defeated in combat. By NOBODY. And none of the guys you people name have fought in as many battles as him. Sorry but thats a fact. 8 Accounted battles, always in first line fighting the best warriors of the enemy. Nobody is as proben, tested than him.

A guy fights more than anybody else, and never gets his ass kicked by any known human, but somehow he is a myth, with a lower rate that known loosers with many less battles under their belts. A guy quoted as "legendary" by Martin, and as "the laughing storm reborn". A guy who ended a 300 years dinasty with his warhammer.

Oh OK if you say it doesn't count fine then, let's just not count the ones you don't want to. Also Gregor is the first one to kill Beric so the not caring shit doesn't fly. I didn't say many either, I said multiple and I'm right.

Are Robert's kills, aside from Rhaegar, anymore clear than Gregor's? Nope. At least be consistent in how you judge the fighter.

I'm not saying Robert isn't great, but we have no reason to believe he is this god you seem to be making him out to be, Rhaegar was at least able to give him a fight so he isn't as untouchable as you believe. Gregor has a chance to kill him and to act like he doesn't is outright delusional.

Also what is this stuff about him going for the best fighter? Barristan was at the Trident and the other 2 KG might of been better than Rhaegar too. He also doesn't go for the best fighter at Ashford when Tarly beats him.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Also what is this stuff about him going for the best fighter? Barristan was at the Trident and the other 2 KG might of been better than Rhaegar too. He also doesn't go for the best fighter at Ashford when Tarly beats him.

I ll try to put it simple in my bad english.

Nobody in the books has been in as many battles as him.

All of the elite warriors named in this thread lost a fight aka ended out of combat. (Im not speaking about a battle as a general).

Jaime has three known "battles". One against the smiling knight, one against the Tullies and one against Robb where he is captured (Seams that bob was smart enough to get himself out from ashford and bells).

Dayne has two known fights. He was KG during a paceful time, and hidden during RR. He bites the dust in one of those two.

Gregor has been in 8 big fights.(Taking KL, green fork, twice agains beric, fords, kings landing, dukensale and oberyn. Not so bad, but he ended dead in the last one. And two of them are minor skirmishes, and one a duel. Not all full battles as bob.

Selmy also has good numbers., He has been in 7 battles. However, he would be dead after the trident if it was nnot for Robert.

Now Robert was never defeated by any other westeros fighter. He has always fighted in the first line, taking gulftown, kicking ass x3 in summerhall, withdrawing from ashford, joining the fight in the bells, being a beast in the trident, and finally taking pyke with his WH,

Now, strictly speaking none of the named fighters have better numbers than the undefeated Robert Baratheon. Unbeaten in MORE battles and fights than the others. However people here want to put Bob below this all beaten in less fights elite fighters. It does not make sence at all.

[Darkbringer]

The Demon of the Trident wins afoot, the Mountain wins ahorse. Solved it for you...