As a reader, has the TV show changed your mind on any theories about the books?

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

Yeh the show shot down all my Jeyne Westerling and Patchface theories.

I don't necessarily buy the TV show killing not-Jeyne means that Jeyne Westerling is not pregnant.

For one, if Robb Jr ends up becoming the Lord of Winterfell instead of Rickon, the show having Rickon taking Winterfell does not change much as far as the story goes and requires 1 less actor (a baby no less) and less time devoted to that story. Plus it includes Osha who everyone connected to the show seems to love.

And two, not-Jeyne would have been one of the first book spoilers that the show encountered and they may have wanted to limit those as much as possible at the time, since there was still time for GRRM to get the books out. Similar to how they handled the HotU and it's prophecy.

[Hodor knows]

As a reader, has the TV show changed your mind on any theories about the books?

Absolutely, but that has made the show much more interesting. We're looking through a kaleidoscope at the final books. It's kind of thrilling.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

Absolutely, but that has made the show much more interesting. We're looking through a kaleidoscope at the final books. It's kind of thrilling.

I am totally the opposite.

I haven't watched the last 2 episodes (read spoilers) and I don't know if I can watch anymore. They have gone so far off book that all I do is get angry as I watch it.

[Hodor knows]

I am totally the opposite.

I haven't watched the last 2 episodes (read spoilers) and I don't know if I can watch anymore. They have gone so far off book that all I do is get angry as I watch it.

I shared your feelings, but getting passed by HBO was inevitable. It was embrace it or try impossibly to avoid it. What the heck, it's just a story. Let's have fun with it.

[mdw4950]

tough to say. a lot can still change since we dont know exactly how much of the plot martin has given away and we have to remember that the tv show is just that, a tv show. the show has millions more casual fans than die hard fans. this includes book readers too. not everyone rereads them over and over or picks up on all the hints or subtleties. hell, a lot of people just want to see tits and blood.

casual fans have almost all complained that there are too many characters to remember and why they are committing certain acts. for example, people thought it was awesome when stannis attacked the wildlings but a lot of those people had absolutely no clue why he did it. its tough for a lot of people to remember that minute and a half scene from a month ago where davos finds a scroll from the wall and then put them together.

anyway, the only thing i think its really kind of spoiling is who the main players in the end game are. aegon being excluded doesnt mean hes a fake. it likely just means he doesnt have a significant impact on the ending so the show cut him for that purpose. cutting stoneheart and the some of the ironborn are likely the same situations. if they can get to the same end without 'wasting' (using that for lack of a better term, not trying to get into a debate about how certain scenes should be cut to add in different ones) screen time then they are kind of forced into it.

on the other side, i think the show might be giving away how important certain characters might be. everyone knows jon, dany and tyrion are the major players but theyve also made brienne pretty much the undisputed best fighter in the show. shes much more convincing in her victory over loras. she beats the hound in a sword fight, then a fist fight and then pod even reminds the viewer of it this season. shes extremely dismissive of jaime during their fight. correct me if im wrong, but i dont remember her killing three men in about 10 seconds in the books either. this has to be for a reason.

spoilers for those who havent watched season 5 yet (sorry, cant remember how to put them in. if someone could post how to put them up id appreciate it)

the last couple episodes have also had LF show a bit more of his plan to the viewer and hes been thrown into the bolton-stannis feud.

end spoilers

pretty much we have to take the show with a grain of salt until its over. unfortunately by the time the show is over were still going to be waiting a while for ados.

[The Dames do Moan]

I don't necessarily buy the TV show killing not-Jeyne means that Jeyne Westerling is not pregnant.

For one, if Robb Jr ends up becoming the Lord of Winterfell instead of Rickon, the show having Rickon taking Winterfell does not change much as far as the story goes and requires 1 less actor (a baby no less) and less time devoted to that story. Plus it includes Osha who everyone connected to the show seems to love.

And two, not-Jeyne would have been one of the first book spoilers that the show encountered and they may have wanted to limit those as much as possible at the time, since there was still time for GRRM to get the books out. Similar to how they handled the HotU and it's prophecy.

Do people really still believe the theory about Jeyne being pregnant? GRRM came out and said that the hips thing was one of the few mistakes. Plus he actually wrote the episode in which Talisa told Robb she was pregnant knowing full well she would die at the RW. To me the was GRRM literally killing that theory. That last part is just my opinion. I'd think him saying the hips were a mistake would crush the theory, then again I've seen way worse ha.

[deja vu]

The show is just an alternate universe to the books, with fewer characters. Some of the characters who remain are taking on story lines of others. The show is reflecting the books for the key characters, and telling us who, in the end, will likely not be s survivor in the books. Dany, John, Arya, Tyrion, Cersei, Stannis, Davos, Melisandre, Shireen, Jorah, Samwell, the Sparrows, the Wildings are, at this point, pretty much on the same story track in the show as in the books. Bran is pretty much at the point we last saw him in the books and he's staying put for this season. But other characters need to be moved around. The show could have left Sansa out this season as well, but they had her pick up some of fArya's Winterfell storyline to move her where she was headed anyway - the North. Littlefinger scheming to go north with Sansa was just a plot device to get her there. So I don't think Sansa is that far off track, as I always thought the Vale-Riverlands-Harrenhal and "Sansa is a southerner" theories would not be all that relevant to the outcome. The three key characters who are really off in a different direction are Jaime and Brienne and Varys. I guess the showrunners are taking the "how we get to the end isn't important, just that everyone is where they're supposed to be at the end" philosophy to heart. I'm most intrigued by what has happened to Varys. Can't see him staying in Volantis. Will he head towards Dany? Or will (f)Aegon be introduced some other way?

[Beautiful Bloody Sword]

I have had a feeling since reading AWOIAF, and now viewing season 5, that they are meant to not only stall for the completion of the books, but most importantly, to confuse, confound, and cause doubts in the minds of the serious reader/fan. Some theories are now considered null and void and I believe this to be misdirection.

[BrianBoru]

Minor problems:

- The death of not-Jeyne and Robb Jnr, the Ace-Up-The-Sleeve.

- The death of Jojen Reed - pass the Jojenpaste.

- Jaime in Dorne - there goes all the Blackwood theories, Edmure Tully, the Blackfish....

- and Brienne in the North - never did "ship" Jaime and Brienne, but they're a continent apart now!

- (f)Aegon

- etc

My biggest problem now:

- There must always be a Stark in Winterfell. Well, Sansa's there now, apparently! Winter can go back to the real North?

[Makk]

I think Aegon and Arianne will still have big roles in the books regardless of not even being cast in the show. I always felt the Greyjoys main purpose was to bring the cast together, but I don't think the show confirms this this by the lack of casting. The show has simply cut a few major storylines and using some berift characters to do other things. The only time I really felt the show spoiled something was Jeyne Westerling (whatever her show version was called) dying. Now I'm not actually convinced she doesn't still have a part to play in the books.

[Rachel of Oldstones]

Yes!sooo much so, I can't concentrate when I watch the new episodes.

I've thought that....

F/Aegon is indeedfake

Brienne isn't leading JaMIE to his death (no lady SH)

Abd if Barristan and Grey Worm are dead who's left to lead in the battle of Fire while dany is off w Drogon? Does that mean the battle of Fire isn't that relevent?

Ahh

[DarkstarViserys]

They are telling the same story and just cuttingbit short. Meaning George over elaborates on side plots that go nowhere. Barristan dies in the show? It has already been speculated that the battle of mereen he will be killed either by victorian or the pit fighters. Loras in trial instead of margarey? Maybe she beats her trial or Tarly does not turn on the tyrells and turn her back in to the high sparrow. The show follows the books and it is guaranteed that characters that die dont make it or have little plot revelance in future books.

[DarkstarViserys]

I have had a feeling since reading AWOIAF, and now viewing season 5, that they are meant to not only stall for the completion of the books, but most importantly, to confuse, confound, and cause doubts in the minds of the serious reader/fan. Some theories are now considered null and void and I believe this to be misdirection.

Really? I hope you are joking.

[Ser RoddyRuinuous]

I feel like the show killed Jaime prematurely, by sending him to Dorne. I never expected him to live out the series, but Dorne? With Bronn? He's a dead man walking. And that's too bad.

[Johnny Snowball]

It's hard to know how far the show is going away from the book because we don't know how TWOW is going to end up so the show may just be taking a short cut or filling multiple plots with one character. For instance, Sansa at WF to marry Ramsey under the guise to the rest of the world as Petyr's bastard may just be the shows way of trying to fit the whole Ramsey wifes up fake Arya to legitimize Bolton control/to get Jon pissed off and have him try and lead the NW to WF while also placing Sansa in WF (maybe one of the more key details that GRRM told HBO about TWOW?) all in a way that makes sense to the casual viewer. This is all speculation but i believe this season will help us guage truly how far the show is really venturing off course from the books and how far in detail/depth its going into the next book.

[joluoto2]

No, the show tells it's own story, a completely different entity than the books.

[Sparklehorse]

No. To post a meta I wrote on tumblr (that I wrote on October)

Okay there are several posts going around about how casts have been renewed and people have been signed on for future seasons. And how comments such as - oh Lady Stoneheart got cut out, so I guess she doesn’t matter in the books. Really, I don’t think D&D know much about the endgame.

The endgame is huge

Really- the endgame of ASOIAF- a universe with multiple POVs, continents and locations, different systems a whole mythology and universe rules, impending wars. How is it going to end won’t be summerised by a page, to give an ending to everything, that is going to take pages and pages and pages of writing. I don’t think it can easily be emailed or anything like that.

It can change

GRRM is human after all, he can change his mind on things. It’s not set in stone. Whatever he told D&D of how it’s going to end- it still can change, i mean, what’s stopping him? He can make characters more important, emphasis or advance mythology.

TWOW Prologue

GRRM has confirmed himself that the prologue will contain Robb’s queen, Jeyne Westerling. In the show, Talisa, was stabbed in the stomach. I don’t think I need to say more on this matter

Some of the actors who have gotten it and haven’t gotten it make no sense

So… the list. Natalie Dormer’s on it, Isaac Hempstead Read’s not on it. Even though clearly, the chances in the books of Bran living for the end is extremely high and for a non POV such as Margaery, well… is quite low.

GRRM’s interests lie in expanding the universe, the show’s interests are with simplifying it

We have the world of ice and fire, history and a lot more. It’s flat out fantasy the books. GRRM has been ambitious: realising new books regarding the universe he has created, even talked about an 8th or a 9th book. Whereas d&d are pretty much ‘seven seasons’. Two seperate canons.

Lady Stoneheart could still be extremely important, same with the Greyjoy’s uncles. I do think it’s best to avoid making predictions of ASOIAF based on what we’ve seen in the show

[bent branch]

In season four I was finally able to separate the books and the show into different entities. Once I was able to do that, I realized that at least as early as season three the show began deviate from the novels in ways that could be very significant. The funny thing is they hit their marks as far as significant events, but how they get there doesn't always make sense. I have also noticed that they are willing to have huge plot holes in order drop or keep the story lines they want (Balon is still alive and I don't think they intend to kill him). So it seems to me that they read the novels as a series of events without any real understanding of why those events were occurring in the manner they were. So, the show will "spoil" some major events, but to understand why those things happened you'll really have to read the books.

[Sigella]

dubble post

[Sigella]

Varys is so much nicer in the show, which made me think that he's a (mostly) good guy. In the books he was this slimy freak, but in the show he's really... nice.