The other controversial scene (spoilers)

[Khal Boner]

So you have to see it in order for it to have actually happened in the story?

Defining things correctly is a good idea no. You are misusing the word depiction. The show did not depict child rape. They did not show it. They implied it was about to happen and the rest is down to our imaginations as viewers.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

This was showed on screen to show that Meryn Trant was an asshole and deserved to die.

But he already did awful things. Beating Sansa was one of them. Also, he killed Syrio, despite that was, after all, his duty. He could also have been behind the execution of other members of the Stark staff. Why the need to make him a pedophile? Isn't all of that already enough?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

This was showed on screen to show that Meryn Trant was an asshole and deserved to die.

But he already did awful things. Beating Sansa was one of them. Also, he killed Syrio, despite that was, after all, his duty. He could also have been behind the execution of other members of the Stark staff. Why the need to make him a pedophile? Isn't all of that already enough?

[Borodin]

Defining things correctly is a good idea no. You are misusing the word depiction. The show did not depict child rape. They did not show it. They implied it was about to happen and the rest is down to our imaginations as viewers.

Choose whatever word you want that will cease you dancing around the question you are refusing to answer: Why are you so invested in defending the off-screen rape of a child in one of the main plots of a Game of Thrones when it was completely unecessary?

[Borodin]

This was showed on screen to show that Meryn Trant was an asshole and deserved to die.

But he already did awful things. Beating Sansa was one of them. Also, he killed Syrio, despite that was, after all, his duty. He could also have been behind the execution of other members of the Stark staff. Why the need to make him a pedophile? Isn't all of that already enough?

Right. He's been on Arya's kill list for three seasons. Why add pedophilia to the mix if not just to dial up the sexual dystopia trope that D&D have been cultivating?

[Khal Boner]

Choose whatever word you want that will cease you dancing around the question you are refusing to answer: Why are you so invested in defending the off-screen rape of a child in one of the main plots of a Game of Thrones when it was completely unecessary?

I'm not here to be interrogated thanks. Your clumsy use of language and misrepresentation of the show needs challenging.

[Borodin]

I'm not here to be interrogated thanks. Your clumsy use of language and misrepresentation of the show needs challenging.

You're here to critically discuss the show (I presume) and you're still avoiding the question.

[Khal Boner]

You're here to critically discuss the show (I presume) and you're still avoiding the question.

I have answered the question. Your posts are just emotive, misrepresentative and extreme. Such as saying the show depicted child rape. It didn't.

[Khal Boner]

Why add pedophilia to the mix if not just to dial up the sexual dystopia trope that D&D have been cultivating?

Why not add it as an extra layer of doucheness to Trant? It sets up the way Aryas going to get him as well. What's wrong with that?

[Humble AK]

People may ask themslevs, why are you so invested in defending off-screen child rape on TV?

This is a loaded question obviously intended to direct the argument away from the subject and onto the character of the person with whom you debate.

Come on, be better than that. People can just as easily ask you why you would be so eager to defend the explicitly portrayed sex scene of thirteen year old Dany with a much older man, to whom she had been sold, and how a thirteen year old would suddenly be turned on by that situation because the guy played with her boobs a little first (I imagine you support it, because you seem really married to the exact depiction of the books). Or how he proceeds to rape her anyway when she's not interested. Etc., etc.

People feel very comfortable throwing around the word gratuitous, which makes sense because it has no real meaning. It's the Potter Stewart definition of I know it when I see it, ie when *I* say so.

[Hayyoth]

This was showed on screen to show that Meryn Trant was an asshole and deserved to die.

But he already did awful things. Beating Sansa was one of them. Also, he killed Syrio, despite that was, after all, his duty. He could also have been behind the execution of other members of the Stark staff. Why the need to make him a pedophile? Isn't all of that already enough?

Yeah but all of those things happened a while ago and D&D reckon their viewers would have forgotten all that and would be saying to themselves 'who's the dude in the white cloak....Meryn who?' So best thing to show him raping a little kid (pff camera), plus it gives a set up for ep10 when Arya somehow volunteers to be a prostitute and kills him before he can rape her. Arya won't be raped of course because she

hasn't turned down any Nice Guys yet.

Btw I loved, loved, loved Arya, the Faceless Man on a kill mission, not bothering to disguise herself coz reasons. Even better was her checking out a dangerous situation by selling raw oysters....in a brothel. Coz that wouldn't like make her stand out or anything.

[Jeyne's Addiction]

This thread makes me laugh.

The show is more overt in it's story telling, that's an aspect of the medium, but it's sooooo tame compared to the books, especially when it comes to children and violence/sexuality. It's actually handled extremely tastefully.

Consider the reaction is we had actually SEEN Sansa's "rape" or Shireen's burning, or any of the other things awful things that happen off screen. Now think how you'd feel if the characters/actors were actually the age the are in the books.

Is is that your imagination is filling in the gaps, and you can't stomach it, or is it that you lacked the imagination to visualize any of this when you read the books?

I love this stuff, because it isn't LotR/Disney. I grew up reading Conan, so I'm not looking for rainbows and butterflies. I want a fantasy that reflects reality, and reality is a messed up place.

[Borodin]

People can just as easily ask you why you would be so eager to defend the explicitly portrayed sex scene of thirteen year old Dany with a much older man, to whom she had been sold, and how a thirteen year old would suddenly be turned on by that situation because the guy played with her boobs a little first (I imagine you support it, because you seem really married to the exact depiction of the books). Or how he proceeds to rape her anyway when she's not interested. Etc., etc)

Do your homework. If you look a few posts back you'll see that I don't defend it when it is in the books.

[Hayyoth]

I have answered the question. Your posts are just emotive, misrepresentative and extreme. Such as saying the show depicted child rape. It didn't.

Yeah it was a classy scene. First off there weren't any bewbs shown when Meryn was doing his inspection, that was pure class on D&Ds part as it would be too much showing bewbs and then suggesting an off screen child rape happening. Also Arya was there and she was selling oysters, an aphrodisiac, in the brothel. That was classy too as D&D could easily have had her selling dildos instead. The degree of restraint and good taste was simply amazing.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The funny thing is that the show has already done Mercy except for the sexual part. Then they don't want people to think they have a thing for sexual violence?

Arya already killed a Raff-wannabe.

She did it with the same vicious attitude she used in Mercy

She played the whole "I'm harmless" when she did it.

She made the guy repeat Lommy's words.

That's the essence of Mercy, not the fact she had to lure a guy sexually.

But no. They couldn't use the sexuality from the scene back then, so, they use it now. I can almost see it

"But, we did already the scene!"

"yeah, but in here, Arya doesn't face a pedophile".

"so, we repeat it?"

"No, just make Trant the pedophile"

These guys are sick.

[robasp2]

Why are you so invested in defending the off-screen rape of a child in one of the main plots of a Game of Thrones when it was completely unecessary?

Who decides it is unecessary?

GRRM also writes unecessary stuff. Actually everything is unecessary.

Why cut Theons cock? Other ways to break him.

Why leech particularly from Gendry's penis?

You see how anything can be made to be unecessary?

Another way would be to just enjoy whatever they show. Coz its their story.

I would have called you a hypocrite..but you did say a good point that GRRM must reconsider too. So we r good :)

[Borodin]

I have answered the question. Your posts are just emotive, misrepresentative and extreme. Such as saying the show depicted child rape. It didn't.

Was the rape of that little girl a plot point that happened just off camera? Recall that Sansa's rape was similar - off camera. If it will stop you dancing, shall we call it "include" rather than "depict"? The show "included" the rape of a little girl. Satisfied? If not, tell me what word you are willing to use and we'll go with that one.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Anybody wants to bet that Arya starts to sexually dance to Meryn Trant to make him remember he killed her dancing master?

[Borodin]

This thread makes me laugh.

The show is more overt in it's story telling, that's an aspect of the medium, but it's sooooo tame compared to the books, especially when it comes to children and violence/sexuality. It's actually handled extremely tastefully.

Consider the reaction is we had actually SEEN Sansa's "rape" or Shireen's burning, or any of the other things awful things that happen off screen. Now think how you'd feel if the characters/actors were actually the age the are in the books.

Is is that your imagination is filling in the gaps, and you can't stomach it, or is it that you lacked the imagination to visualize any of this when you read the books?

I love this stuff, because it isn't LotR/Disney. I grew up reading Conan, so I'm not looking for rainbows and butterflies. I want a fantasy that reflects reality, and reality is a messed up place.

Child porn is "a reality".

[Welease Woger]

Wasn't Daenerys like 14 when she married Khal Drogo? Sansa, Joffrey and Jeyne Poole (as fake Arya) all married at about that same age in the books. The TV show actually aged every character a few years in order to avoid this kind of controversy. But the books depict a fansaty world clearly inspired in Europe Middle-ages, in which this kind of marriage was considered natural. I've checked Wikipedia and during the Middle Ages the Catholic Church actually would accept brides as young as 12 years old. A few modern-day countries like Colombia and Paraguay allow 14 years olds to get married as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageable_age

We could debate all day about taboo, culture and moral relativism, but I certainly don't want to push these hot buttons. Instead, I'll just say the following: Game of Thrones is Dark Fantasy. It's a fantasy world full of horrible people who do terrible stuff. There's torture, rape and cruel execution methods, and children are not safe from any. And sadly, this kind of stuff is not exclusive to this fantasy world either, it does exist today. Read the news and you'll see that it's happening in your own town. If you'd rather forget about this depressing stuff, if you don't like it on your fiction, than I'm afraid to say that Game of Thrones might not be for you. Try 'The Lord of the Rings' or 'His Dark Materials', the world is full of wonderful fantasy worlds way less depressing than Westeros.