RGBeyondAsshai Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 @ Brodin, if you have read the Mercy chapter you would know she uses sexuality to lure Raff. She offers to have sex with him, so yes, GRRM uses Arya in a sexual way. I read that chapter too-made me wish I had the whole book *G*. She's a young actress who is playing a woman getting violated by the giant phallus of a dwarf I believe. And she approaches her target in a sexual way to get him alone yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Cornered_Wolf Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Jaime being traumatized by sexual abuse and killing rapists? Cut too. Stannis gelding and punishing rapists? Cut and replaced with him burning his daughter. Showing the Wall cooperating with the women of both the North or Wildlings? Cut. Show them all like a band of rapists. No, I cannot see a pattern. Cutting the first two really bother me because they are examples of men within their time period saying,"No, rape because war or societal norm is not okay." Neither of them are Saints, and I don't think Stannis necessarily does it for reasons of empathy but both challenge the concept that its okay to do this because this is the way its always been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGBeyondAsshai Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Jaime being traumatized by sexual abuse and killing rapists? Cut too. Stannis gelding and punishing rapists? Cut and replaced with him burning his daughter. Showing the Wall cooperating with the women of both the North or Wildlings? Cut. Show them all like a band of rapists. No, I cannot see a pattern. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Again, you are not mentioning that GRRM did chose to use sexuality. You are blaming one and not the other, makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 When they went with Trant rather than Raff, they didn't have to use sexuality or pedophilia. They had already made a change in who Arya's target would be, so why reintroduce and highlight that very specific particular aspect of Raff? Isn't it interesting? Also, they already did Mercy last season. The WHOLE ESSENCE of Mercy is Arya making Raff repeat the worlds... THEY ALREADY DID THAT. They couldn't help to take the sexual aspect of the story now Maisie is older and redo the scene.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Again, you are not mentioning that GRRM did chose to use sexuality. You are blaming one and not the other, makes no sense. He did use Sansa's sexuality. We kinda already got the hint about that. It might happen. Why the need to include more sexual exploitation? :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Again, you are not mentioning that GRRM did chose to use sexuality. You are blaming one and not the other, makes no sense. I recognize a difference between sexuality on the one hand and child rape on the other because there is a difference. Do you recognize a difference my friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Cutting the first two really bother me because they are examples of men within their time period saying,"No, rape because war or societal norm is not okay." Neither of them are Saints, and I don't think Stannis necessarily does it for reasons of empathy but both challenge the concept that its okay to do this because this is the way its always been. Indeed. The problem is that D&D seem to have the worst of the concepts about medieval times that have, sadly, being popularized by misinformation. Raping was wrong. Abusing wives was wrong. Exploit children was wrong. Some did but they are pass through history as questionable people. In Westeros, we have rapists, abusers and many other things, as in everywhere in history, but they aren't the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGBeyondAsshai Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Also, they already did Mercy last season. The WHOLE ESSENCE of Mercy is Arya making Raff repeat the worlds... THEY ALREADY DID THAT. They couldn't help to take the sexual aspect of the story now Maisie is older and redo the scene.. I'm really okay with her killing Meryn since he's the one who possibly perhaps apparently killed Syrio and definitely-though she doesn't know it-abused her sister Sansa. And the sexy actress Mercy did lure a man home to stab him so I can see why they made the decision. My issue was with the 15 minutes worth of "Too old" "Too old" "Too old" Like a perverted hammer in my brain when really, there were more important things to focus on when even the Hound knew Meryn was a douchebag who deserved to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 My god people. GRRM had plenty of sex scenes that have been cut from the show. GRRM wrote them so according to some people here it isn't exploitation but rather is to further the plot right? Umm how did Dany and Mirri on the boat further the plot? Or all of Danys' clothes that had one tit hanging out? How about Cersei and her lesbian scene with her bed warmer? Yeah, all of those were needed for the plot for sure. How about you praise HBO and DD for cutting those ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Freypie Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I guess people are simply fed up with some of the self righteous criticism about the show and now it pours down on that thread.Please do not open a nonsensical frontline between feminists and and those who critically value the show. I see myself as feminist but I am not willing to support those onedimensional and sometimes clueless voices of rage reducing the show to the so-called sensitive topics and favoring thought control and censorship in the name of misunderstood political correctness.I think the Mercy chapter is great and the approach to it by the show is promising as well. Me ? I don't even see the link between feminism and critic of the show (or even feminism and people expressing some disconfort with scenes involving child rapes stories) and certainly wouldn't qualify myself as a feminist (don't want to recieve accusations of mansplanning with links to some horrible wiki like the last time I dared on the internet).My only vague critic of this show scene (I don't particuliary hate), is it's one more whitewashing of a main character, a trend I find annoying : by heavily insisting Trant is an unredeemable pedophile (in addition to all he did already), I fear their goal is to turn a future scene that should question the viewer about what is Arya becoming into some fist-pump moment.(Out of that, I understand people who, for personnal reasons, may have like I said some discomfort with such scenes, but it's another topic, and it doesn't mean I would advocate any form of censure, I was just inviting not to caricature them into puritans or whatever.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robasp2 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The GoT world is full of dicks.If they never showed such things on TV, wouldnt GoT be such a beautiful unrealistic world?Why get upset? It's not like they are supporting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I think most people here are misinterpreting the reason why people like myself are upset at this. It's not because it's sexual, or because of not wanting to see the effects of pedophilia. It's the way that it's handled. As many have pointed out, it's NOT the same as in the book. I can guess that what is the same is that Arya will use her sexuality to get close to Meryn Trant (Raff the Sweetling) so that she can kill him. There isn't time spent setting him up as a pedophile in the books. As JCRB has pointed out, he is interested in sex and violence, but he isn't necessarily a pedophile. We also don't experience a drawn-out scene leading up to the rape and physical brutalization of a young girl. So a young girl is not raped in the Mercy chapter to set up the scene between Arya and Raff. Since Arya has already gotten sexual attention in the show, it isn't necessary to set it up so Meryn Trant is a pedophile. It isn't necessary to depict a storyline where a young girl is raped and brutalized. Once again, the show is using violence against women to further someone else's storyline, without ever seriously exploring the implications. It's used as a plot device, and an unnecessary one.This.It's not the same as the books or Mercy at all. And they could have stopped the scene at, "Tomorrow," and not dragged the frightened virgin in to be brutally raped. They like piling on sexual violence toward young women, and they do so in an alarmingly casual and callous fashion, but they don't like dealing with the hellish aftermath.They think we should care so much about minor characters we don't really know who are victims, are they going to follow up on this one? Hell no. She was just there for shock factor, and shock factor means they've got nothing, as in, they can't write a story properly without resorting to tricks.If they wanted us to care so much for minor characters, why did they replace Jeyne Poole with Sansa, they can't have it both ways. They said there was a storyline they loved, but they stripped it of everything but a young woman is raped. They said they "used" Sansa to get a response, because the audience is invested in her.Which is again them saying flat out, they've got nothing. Because that's resorting to yet another manipulative trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Umm how did Dany and Mirri on the boat further the plot? Or all of Danys' clothes that had one tit hanging out? How about Cersei and her lesbian scene with her bed warmer? Yeah, all of those were needed for the plot for sure. How about you praise HBO and DD for cutting those ???? People aren't complaining about love and sexuality in the show. Lesbian sex isn't the issue so you are attacking a straw man. People are complaining about abusive exploitative sexuality and focus on sexual deviance in the show, and how it is being introduced by HBO where it did not appear in the books in order to create buzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The GoT world is full of dicks. If they never showed such things on TV, wouldnt GoT be such a beautiful unrealistic world? Why get upset? It's not like they are supporting it. Art is political. Always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 YES, a lot of scenes from Martin that portray sex abuse have been cut. GUESS WHAT? Those scenes are the ones that make certain MALE characters look very very bad. :dunno: I already gave two examples. What about how we never found out Tysha was not a prostitute...? I mean, Tywin was right! That prostitute had it coming, who she believe she was!!What about Lolly's rape and how Tyrion was like "what? your retarded daughter is missing? Fuck you, go and find Sansa Stark or my brother will die!!". The whole "but GRRM DOES IT!" argument is weak. Very weak. Again, because people don't get it: A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT.A SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IF THE SET UP IS DIFFERENT. Get it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The GoT world is full of dicks.If they never showed such things on TV, wouldnt GoT be such a beautiful unrealistic world?Why get upset? It's not like they are supporting it. But they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I've been watching tv for years and I dunno how I was able to understand a male character was a villain without showing him raping or torturing... :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Boner Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Indeed. The problem is that D&D seem to have the worst of the concepts about medieval times that have, sadly, being popularized by misinformation. Raping was wrong. Abusing wives was wrong. Exploit children was wrong. Some did but they are pass through history as questionable people. In Westeros, we have rapists, abusers and many other things, as in everywhere in history, but they aren't the norm. I'd take issue with that description of medieval Europe but that's for another time. The show does show that rape is considered a shocking act and depicts it as so. We've seen Jaime stop the rape of Brienne. The Hound rescue Sansa. Rape used as a pyschological threat against Theon. Rapers also get their comeuppance. Polliver get killed by Arya after threatening sexual violence, Rorge killed by Arya. The Red Viper travels all the way from Dorne to avenge his sister. 'You raped her, you murdered her, you killed her children'. Rape isn't taken lightly in the show and most of the disturbing sexual stuff is far less graphic than in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 What I find amazing is the white washing of GRRM. It seems like everything he did, he wrote, people he killed, raped, tortured, was "to further the plot". Really? If you are someone who truly finds those things abhorrent to watch, then why did you continue to read a fantasy series about it? There was a lot of sexuality that was in the books that didn't further a damn thing. Like, I don't know, Dany and Miri(?) lesbian scene on boat? Cersei and her lesbian scene in bed? But yeah, you guys are right, it's just HBO and DD who are exploiting FAKE people.This.The sexual violence in the books is excessive and pornographic. And there's no good reason why the characters cant be of today's legal age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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