R4W13Y Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 For the discussion about Jon warging into Ghost and thus not coming back "physically" in season 6: Now I don't know how much "freedom" Ghost has in Castle Black, i.e. if he can walk around as he wants or if he has to stay with Jon, but I think when Jon dies they will also try to kill Ghost. No one really seemed to feel safe and comfortable around Ghost (except for Sam, Gilly, etc.). So Jon warged into Ghost would have to flee CB ... and then? He happens to find Melisandre (or whoever is going to resurrect him) some episodes later to resurrect him? Or she follows him with his corpse? Because she needs his body (unless it is possible to resurrect people into another dead body but that would feel quite inappropriate). Also his body has to be prevented from turning into a wight or WW. So what I am trying to say is: If he comes back, he has to come back in the beginning of season 6. (Unless they do some parts in season 6 that run parallel in time to season 5.) I'm with you on this. I feel the likely next step for the NW is to burn the body, and Mel is there, so... I don't like the idea of the Ghost thing for the reasons you stated but also because there was no indication that Jon could warg in the show, so it might feel like it comes out of nowhere. Also, Ghost was not present during FTW, so where is Ghost? I think some just assume he's locked away, but why is that an assumption to make based on what has been presented on the show? I mean, they might for sure go this route in the show, I just don't think it's a good idea based on the fact that they haven't keep the strong connection with the direwolves in or Arya and Jon's wolf dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4W13Y Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Excellent! :lol: I don't think they are the right ones at all. They don't have the right sensibility. They've stripped the story of any meaning or purpose other than whose butt ends up sitting on the iron throne. Which is a damn shame. I don't think that's what ASOIAF is about at all. Faulkner pretty much condemned Game of Thrones right here: http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1949/faulkner-speech.html I agree, they are completely wrong because they read the books and took the wrong meaning from them and are emphasizing/focusing on the wrong parts for the show. And that Faulkner quote is what inspires GRRM while he writes ASOIAF, so that's yet more proof that D&D just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Here's an interview Nutter gave to People: The books inform a lot of the theories surrounding Jon Snow – I don't suppose you have any of your own thoughts about what might happen to him? I can definitely tell you that after all those stab wounds, he's a dead man. [Longwinded explanation for why I don't think we've seen the last of Jon Snow followed by the acknowledgment that I know Nutter can't actually confirm or deny][Laughs] Anything I say would be the wrong answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4W13Y Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Here's an interview Nutter gave to People: The books inform a lot of the theories surrounding Jon Snow – I don't suppose you have any of your own thoughts about what might happen to him? I can definitely tell you that after all those stab wounds, he's a dead man. [Longwinded explanation for why I don't think we've seen the last of Jon Snow followed by the acknowledgment that I know Nutter can't actually confirm or deny] [Laughs] Anything I say would be the wrong answer! Damn, now I'm not as sure as I was. ETA: Also, he hasn't read the books. This then just seems like so many people involved on the show take D&D as gospel instead of having different perspectives so they can all collaborate together and make the best show possible. I think it should be mandatory that all the directors/writers read the books they are adapting instead of only a few people involved on the production :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Freypie Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Suggestion for HBO staff : to completely troll people, remind them the quote where Martin said Gandalf should have stayed dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Now I'm 100% sure he's coming back, it's only a question of when. Are they stupid enough to take Kit out for an entire season or only for part of a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Damn, now I'm not as sure as I was. ETA: Also, he hasn't read the books. This then just seems like so many people involved on the show take D&D as gospel instead of having different perspectives so they can all collaborate together and make the best show possible. I think it should be mandatory that all the directors/writers read the books they are adapting instead of only a few people involved on the production :dunno: I think actors should read the books too, but this is a little more understandable, they are really only focused on creating the one character, and clearly, with a Charles Dance performance it isn't necessary to kill it. Why a director wouldn't read the material from which the ADAPTATION is coming to give himself a deeper sense of the world and the story is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Now I'm 100% sure he's coming back, it's only a question of when. Are they stupid enough to take Kit out for an entire season or only for part of a season. I think part of the season, but a good part. Maybe till episode 8 or 9. I do think he'll warg Ghost initially. It can be only hinted at quite easily and it will generate a massive hype that will help carry the whole season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martoma Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I'm with you on this. I feel the likely next step for the NW is to burn the body, and Mel is there, so... I don't like the idea of the Ghost thing for the reasons you stated but also because there was no indication that Jon could warg in the show, so it might feel like it comes out of nowhere. Also, Ghost was not present during FTW, so where is Ghost? I think some just assume he's locked away, but why is that an assumption to make based on what has been presented on the show? I mean, they might for sure go this route in the show, I just don't think it's a good idea based on the fact that they haven't keep the strong connection with the direwolves in or Arya and Jon's wolf dreams. Yes, I also don't think he is going to work into Ghost in the show. Ghost wasn't seen and he didn't call for him just before dying. Another reason why I think the resurrection has to be done early is more of a practical thing. If Jon doesn't show up for an entire season, people will accept his death and the story goes on without him. It would be weird if he suddenly showed up a whole season later to continue his story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Ghost- Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 So they are saying Kit isnt in season 6. Are they planning on not having a funeral pyre? They had one for LC Mormont and Maester Aemon, I don't see them not having one for the LC. Kit would have to be in the season for that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martoma Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Suggestion for HBO staff : to completely troll people, remind them the quote where Martin said Gandalf should have stayed dead. Yeah, I thought of that quote too and it actually made me doubt Jon's resurrection for a while because obviously Martin thinks that it is kind of lame when people return from death. But then again there is too much evidence that Jon is still important for the story and has a part to play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Yes, I also don't think he is going to work into Ghost in the show. Ghost wasn't seen and he didn't call for him just before dying. Another reason why I think the resurrection has to be done early is more of a practical thing. If Jon doesn't show up for an entire season, people will accept his death and the story goes on without him. It would be weird if he suddenly showed up a whole season later to continue his story. Having him say 'Ghost' could be seen as a huge hint that he will come back. It certainly would be for those who read the books. Plus they really and genuinely like their Olly Crusher story. And hinting at Jon warging Ghost on the first episode, then show Ghost vanish into the woods is very easy to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4W13Y Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Now I'm 100% sure he's coming back, it's only a question of when. Are they stupid enough to take Kit out for an entire season or only for part of a season. Agreed, guys! I've changed my tune! I think actors should read the books too, but this is a little more understandable, they are really only focused on creating the one character, and clearly, with a Charles Dance performance it isn't necessary to kill it. Why a director wouldn't read the material from which the ADAPTATION is coming to give himself a deeper sense of the world and the story is beyond me. I also think the actors should read too, but you're right, their explanation is more reasonable. But yes, that a director and key component in creating the story and part of the production crew wouldn't read the books is just...well it explains so much. And it adds more evidence to my belief that D&D are surrounded by sycophantic yes men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bane66 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Hopefully the Winds of Winter will come out very early 2016 then HBO can start including hints of Jon's return in their early promos for season six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bane66 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Hopefully the Winds of Winter will come out very early 2016 then HBO can start including hints of Jon's return in their early promos for season six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4W13Y Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Yeah, I thought of that quote too and it actually made me doubt Jon's resurrection for a while because obviously Martin thinks that it is kind of lame when people return from death. But then again there is too much evidence that Jon is still important for the story and has a part to play... Yeah, I agree. But I think Martin was also referring to how Gandalf wasn't even really different. At least when Martin brings people back they are significantly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artihcus022 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Yeah, I thought of that quote too and it actually made me doubt Jon's resurrection for a while because obviously Martin thinks that it is kind of lame when people return from death. But then again there is too much evidence that Jon is still important for the story and has a part to play... Martin doesn't think its lame to bring people back from the dead otherwise he wouldn't do it. What Martin doesn't like is bringing people back from the dead stronger than ever or with the same personality intact, without any hint of transformation or loss incurred. To him, Gandalf the Grey coming back as Gandalf the White made no sense if Gandalf did not suffer a loss or wasn't changed by the ordeal. The idea that Gandalf came back more powerful is obviously cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Agreed, guys! I've changed my tune! I also think the actors should read too, but you're right, their explanation is more reasonable. But yes, that a director and key component in creating the story and part of the production crew wouldn't read the books is just...well it explains so much. And it adds more evidence to my belief that D&D are surrounded by sycophantic yes men. I picture the whole production being a total frenzy of confusion, of the D's constantly changing things at the last minute, everyone in an uproar at all times, everything constantly meeting the deadlines at the last possible minute, so everyone is totally stressed out, whacked out, so, nobody has any time to breath and say 'hey, um, 'all' the horses gone...., or 'hey' we forgot to put the eyrie in the opener, or, let's try and do something here so Mel can appear consistently the same color hair and dress..... It's everyone running around all the time crazed with their hair standing on end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 So they are saying Kit isnt in season 6. Are they planning on not having a funeral pyre? They had one for LC Mormont and Maester Aemon, I don't see them not having one for the LC. Kit would have to be in the season for that to happen. Since they're speeding up everything, they could show (ep 1) the immediate aftermath of Jon's assassination, with quick hint of Jon warging Ghost. Jon is dying on the ground, crows around, in comes Ghost and jumps on Jon, or howls and his eyes change, whatever there are a million different ways to just hint at it. Then Ghost is seen running into the woods. Crows start to prepare cremation but something happens - WW? Wildlings revolt? And the body is thrown in an ice cell. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katjushka Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Sansa & Theon and maybe even Brienne are most likely going to the wall in S6 to join Davos. They set this up in S5 with Sansa finding about Jon. Catelyn is indeed a primary character. Martin already said that he felt LS was important and yet the show cut her. In the books, Jon dies & goes into his wolf. that will be difficult to show onscreen. Let us see how they handle it. Sansa (and Theon maybe) are primary characters in the show, yes. However they both have zero knowledge of the WW so it's hard to see them leading the troops in to a fight against them. (Hard to see them leading troops to anything at this point of their stories) Brienne, Davos and Mel I consider to be secondary characters, characters that are in important roles in the stories of primary characters. And I'm sorry, Catelyn was not a primary character. The show has like 6-8 primary characters (The original big 5 plus a few) and their all alive, one (Jon) is a bit iffish but others are alive and continuing their stories. Naturally all characters are important and signifigant to the man who created them, clearly the show can do without LSH because they're doing it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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